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2021 Hoops coaching carousel

MtnBuff

Not allowed in Barzil 2
Club Member
It would have been a really good look for Colorado (both the state and Buffs) basketball if Rodney had been able to build a good program at DU. I was hoping he'd be the first big branch in the Tad coaching tree.
Agree. I like Rodney and it would be good to have multiple successful programs in Colorado, taking into account that even though they are all "D1" there are definite different levels to the leagues that the teams in state play at.

Not going to say it is impossible but I think that building a consistent winner at DU is going to be a very hard job. Colorado isn't exactly a hotbed of high school talent and most Colorado kids probably don't even consider DU to be D1. Most would probably consider the program to be a D2 program and not a good one.

They don't draw many fans, don't get much attention in the media, and don't have the budget to change perceptions.
 

Medford M.

Well-Known Member
Agree. I like Rodney and it would be good to have multiple successful programs in Colorado, taking into account that even though they are all "D1" there are definite different levels to the leagues that the teams in state play at.

Not going to say it is impossible but I think that building a consistent winner at DU is going to be a very hard job. Colorado isn't exactly a hotbed of high school talent and most Colorado kids probably don't even consider DU to be D1. Most would probably consider the program to be a D2 program and not a good one.

They don't draw many fans, don't get much attention in the media, and don't have the budget to change perceptions.
Don't they have decent facilities for a school in their relative position on the pecking order?
 

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
Club Member
Junta Member
Speaking of Tad assistants, will Coach Pri keep his job at SJSU?
 

torerobuff

Dancing is forbidden
Club Member
Regarding Rodney Billups: why the love?

Did no one notice that the downturn in program talent at CU directly coincided with him being made our recruiting coordinator? He was terrible.
Really like Rodney personally. He truly is a real good dude. I don’t think he’s really a good coach. I’ve mentioned before, my dad is a DU basketball alum. He wasn’t surprised by the news at all. They really need to figure out how to get out of the Summit league. It’s just a really bad fit. Hard to say where they go from here.
 

MtnBuff

Not allowed in Barzil 2
Club Member
Don't they have decent facilities for a school in their relative position on the pecking order?
Magness Arena is spectacular for a school at the level they play. Seats about 7200 for basketball, great sight lines, padded seats, overhead video boards and much more. They are the beneficiaries of having one of the elite college hockey programs in the country and the arena is there because of hockey but they get to use it.

When they built the arena though they included upgraded locker rooms, weight facilities, training facilities, and practice facilities.

Unfortunately since they don't draw much for basketball the crowd tends to get lost in the arena and to me it seemed dead because the arena absorbed the crowd energy. I went a few years ago a couple years after they opened Magness.

They rarely play in Magness any more due to crowd size not justifying doing the floor change over. Most of the time the basketball team plays in Hamilton Gymnasium which is a much smaller facility and it is a lot more fun because the crowd energy is there but it also feels small time. Some of their crowds are smaller than a good high school contest between rivals.

Facilities isn't the issue and as much as we jab at them DU is a good school with a nice campus so that doesn't hold them back.

Biggest problems for them are that Colorado doesn't have an abundance of talent at their level and they have a hard time getting those kids. The kids just don't look at DU as a program they want to play for. The guys who should be their best players end up at UNC or out of state or filling the classes for MWC schools like Wyoming and CSU.

In addition to that it is very hard for them to get fans attention in a place like Denver that has so many entertainment options. If a flagship program like CU has a hard time pulling fans away from the mountains and the pro sports franchises imagine what it is like for a basketball program playing mostly schools that don't excite fans like South Dakota and Oral Roberts.
 

ahoelsken

Well-Known Member
Really like Rodney personally. He truly is a real good dude. I don’t think he’s really a good coach. I’ve mentioned before, my dad is a DU basketball alum. He wasn’t surprised by the news at all. They really need to figure out how to get out of the Summit league. It’s just a really bad fit. Hard to say where they go from here.

Big Sky? They've got a built in rival 50 miles from their campus in UNC, but they're a weird fit there too.....they'd be far and away the best academic school in that league.
 

torerobuff

Dancing is forbidden
Club Member
Big Sky? They've got a built in rival 50 miles from their campus in UNC, but they're a weird fit there too.....they'd be far and away the best academic school in that league.
Big Sky is better than the Summit. The fit is the WCC. They circled each other in the past, but it never came together. If BYU ever leaves, I would hope DU would get an invite. No baseball was the main issue I think.
The new WAC wouldn’t be a bad fit either. Seattle and Grand Canyon are also both private school, Grand Canyon now that they’ve dropped their for-profit status isn’t too different of a school. They were also in the Sun Belt with NMSU when they last really had success and had a good little rivalry when they were both at the top of that league.
 

MtnBuff

Not allowed in Barzil 2
Club Member
Big Sky is better than the Summit. The fit is the WCC. They circled each other in the past, but it never came together. If BYU ever leaves, I would hope DU would get an invite. No baseball was the main issue I think.
The new WAC wouldn’t be a bad fit either. Seattle and Grand Canyon are also both private school, Grand Canyon now that they’ve dropped their for-profit status isn’t too different of a school. They were also in the Sun Belt with NMSU when they last really had success and had a good little rivalry when they were both at the top of that league.
Lot of Big Sky alumni live in the Denver metro area and my impression is that a lot of them are loyal to their schools. This could bring some good visitor crowds to the games and create some good rivalries that help build interest and support for the program.

WCC would be even better because it would bring some well known teams onto campus. They might generate enough interest with those teams to justify moving back over to the big arena and build a fan base.

It would also get them seen on some national sports reports enough to help get the attention of a higher quality of recruit.

Big thing with basketball is if a program can get a number of decent players all it takes is one or two guys to become star type players to start winning above your head. Just as a pure example, don't think this was ever even thought of but what if DU had recruited Derrick White and he had played his last couple years there instead of at UCCS then Boulder. An NBA level player can change the trajectory of a program at lower D1.
 

Medford M.

Well-Known Member
Magness Arena is spectacular for a school at the level they play. Seats about 7200 for basketball, great sight lines, padded seats, overhead video boards and much more. They are the beneficiaries of having one of the elite college hockey programs in the country and the arena is there because of hockey but they get to use it.

When they built the arena though they included upgraded locker rooms, weight facilities, training facilities, and practice facilities.

Unfortunately since they don't draw much for basketball the crowd tends to get lost in the arena and to me it seemed dead because the arena absorbed the crowd energy. I went a few years ago a couple years after they opened Magness.

They rarely play in Magness any more due to crowd size not justifying doing the floor change over. Most of the time the basketball team plays in Hamilton Gymnasium which is a much smaller facility and it is a lot more fun because the crowd energy is there but it also feels small time. Some of their crowds are smaller than a good high school contest between rivals.

Facilities isn't the issue and as much as we jab at them DU is a good school with a nice campus so that doesn't hold them back.

Biggest problems for them are that Colorado doesn't have an abundance of talent at their level and they have a hard time getting those kids. The kids just don't look at DU as a program they want to play for. The guys who should be their best players end up at UNC or out of state or filling the classes for MWC schools like Wyoming and CSU.

In addition to that it is very hard for them to get fans attention in a place like Denver that has so many entertainment options. If a flagship program like CU has a hard time pulling fans away from the mountains and the pro sports franchises imagine what it is like for a basketball program playing mostly schools that don't excite fans like South Dakota and Oral Roberts.
Thd part about the recruits is what they can feasibly fix. Target the kids that usually end up af CSU, UNC, Wyoming, get those kids routibdly and you've got something going.
 

MtnBuff

Not allowed in Barzil 2
Club Member
Thd part about the recruits is what they can feasibly fix. Target the kids that usually end up af CSU, UNC, Wyoming, get those kids routibdly and you've got something going.
Problem is that those kids aren't interested. They don't consider DU a valid option.

Torero identified a big part of the problem in their league. Kid's here don't want to play those teams, play the WCC teams and they would have their attention.
 

Medford M.

Well-Known Member
Problem is that those kids aren't interested. They don't consider DU a valid option.

Torero identified a big part of the problem in their league. Kid's here don't want to play those teams, play the WCC teams and they would have their attention.
Yeah, those roadies to Brookings and Vermillion are just the bee's knees...lol
 

absinthe

Ambitious but rubbish.
Club Member
Junta Member
Problem is that those kids aren't interested. They don't consider DU a valid option.

Torero identified a big part of the problem in their league. Kid's here don't want to play those teams, play the WCC teams and they would have their attention.
does DU play body-bag games? if not they should.
 

BuffNative

Well-Known Member
Big thing with basketball is if a program can get a number of decent players all it takes is one or two guys to become star type players to start winning above your head. Just as a pure example, don't think this was ever even thought of but what if DU had recruited Derrick White and he had played his last couple years there instead of at UCCS then Boulder. An NBA level player can change the trajectory of a program at lower D1.
Another tough aspect of being a program of DU's standing is that even when you luck out and get that star player they end up transferring to get more exposure. Royce O'Neale, now with the Utah Jazz, started his career at DU and played two seasons. He was clearly one of the best players in the conference and he used that to get a scholarship offer to f*** Baylor. If O'Neale finishes his career at DU we might not even be talking about Rodney because Joe Scott would probably still be coaching at DU.
 

Buffsbball

Well-Known Member
Another tough aspect of being a program of DU's standing is that even when you luck out and get that star player they end up transferring to get more exposure. Royce O'Neale, now with the Utah Jazz, started his career at DU and played two seasons. He was clearly one of the best players in the conference and he used that to get a scholarship offer to f*** Baylor. If O'Neale finishes his career at DU we might not even be talking about Rodney because Joe Scott would probably still be coaching at DU.
I feel like Joe Scott did really well there all things considered. It's a tough job, but he did a good job of mixing local recruits and finding other underrecruited areas. Like he recruited Jake Pemberton from Highlands Ranch and DU was his one d1 offer. and he averaged 10 points shot 44 % from 3 and was their best defender his senior year. Also nabbed Thomas Neff from Arvada who was a good role player and shooter his senior year. He also recruited Joe Rosga from St. Paul (MSP is a great place to recruit) it's blown up with national recruits like Matthew Hurt, Jalen Suggs, Chet Holgrem, but underneath there are really good D1 players (Kin being the perfect example). Also he hit Texas hard, that's where he got Royce O'Neale, CJ Bobbit, Daniel Amigo and we got Eli Parquet from Texas too.
 

Zachsquatch

Well-Known Member
love this chatter re: DU as I've always been confused as to why they haven't been able to take advantage of the growth in the city of Denver better

the best player from my school, Nate Rohnert (#2 in the state behind Matt Bouldin), went to DU and I was friends with a really good swimmer who went there as well – this might make me biased but I feel like it would be easy to improve the perception of the school in the state and I think Torero nailed it with the GCU and Seattle comparisons – what they have is a marketing problem

wouldn't hurt if they were a more regular opponent for CU
 

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
Club Member
Junta Member
The problem for CU scheduling DU is that they can't pay us enough to go there and they hurt our SOS too much to play them at home on anything close to a regular basis.

As I've said before, the answer is to have an annual "Big 4" tournament. CU, CSU, UNC and DU. We're all in different conferences, so no complications.

Do it over Xmas break at a neutral court venue in Denver every year as a round robin. Scheduling games at that time is hard anyway and home attendance sucks since students aren't on campus.

Would solve scheduling issues while promoting basketball in the metro. I bet Tad would agree to it. He loves local hoops and hates the scheduling part of his job - with these 3 neutral site games + another 3 in a destination tourney, he only has to find 6 more OOC games (4 if the P12 follows through with 20-game P12 schedules under the new commish).
 

onealcd

Club Member
Club Member
Sure seems like DePaul will be looking for a new coach. Maybe I don’t know as much about the school as I think but I think that would be a pretty desirable job.
 

ahoelsken

Well-Known Member
The problem for CU scheduling DU is that they can't pay us enough to go there and they hurt our SOS too much to play them at home on anything close to a regular basis.

As I've said before, the answer is to have an annual "Big 4" tournament. CU, CSU, UNC and DU. We're all in different conferences, so no complications.

Do it over Xmas break at a neutral court venue in Denver every year as a round robin. Scheduling games at that time is hard anyway and home attendance sucks since students aren't on campus.

Would solve scheduling issues while promoting basketball in the metro. I bet Tad would agree to it. He loves local hoops and hates the scheduling part of his job - with these 3 neutral site games + another 3 in a destination tourney, he only has to find 6 more OOC games (4 if the P12 follows through with 20-game P12 schedules under the new commish).

Question-would we even be allowed to play DU (342nd in NET) and UNC (265th in NET) away from Boulder right now? My understanding was the Pac installed a rule that said its members could only play away games against schools ranked higher than like 175 in the NET, but I may have that wrong. I do know that's why we haven't played Air Force in basketball since 18-19. I'd assume that was waived for this year because of COVID, but we have to think of the fall and winter next year being fairly normal at this point I think.

I do like this concept, though-but think bigger. You can't tell me an MTE co-hosted by CSU and us couldn't draw two bigger programs to Denver to play us-guarantee you WC scenario would be like BYU and Wichita State.
 

WasianCU

Moderator
Club Member
Question-would we even be allowed to play DU (342nd in NET) and UNC (265th in NET) away from Boulder right now? My understanding was the Pac installed a rule that said its members could only play away games against schools ranked higher than like 175 in the NET, but I may have that wrong. I do know that's why we haven't played Air Force in basketball since 18-19. I'd assume that was waived for this year because of COVID, but we have to think of the fall and winter next year being fairly normal at this point I think.

I do like this concept, though-but think bigger. You can't tell me an MTE co-hosted by CSU and us couldn't draw two bigger programs to Denver to play us-guarantee you WC scenario would be like BYU and Wichita State.
Not sure where DU and UNC's rank but the limit is for a five-year NET ranking of 200 average or worse (source):
The four standards are:
  • no regular-season games against non-Division I opponents
  • no road games against opponents with five-year NET ranking average worse than 200
  • no road games where the Pac-12 team is the ‘buy’ opponent, i.e. they’re getting paid to play on the opponent’s home court in a one-off matchup
  • a team’s entire nonconference slate can’t have a five-year NET ranking average below 175
 

ahoelsken

Well-Known Member
Not sure where DU and UNC's rank but the limit is for a five-year NET ranking of 200 average or worse (source):

I can't find a site for that, but here's what I'd guess:

DU: Probably below that figure. They've had three straight single digit win campaigns.
UNC: Close to or slightly above 200. They've had three straight 20+ win years. Jeff Linder did a hell of a job there.
 

buffgal

Club Member
Club Member
This season, the women played all games in Hamilton Gym. I'm very happy I no longer live in the area because I would not attend a season of games in that gym with bleachers. I know they didn't have fans this year.

I don't know how long the women have been playing all of their games in Hamilton. When I was attending DU games, most of the games were in the Ritchey Center--unless it conflicted with hockey.
 
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