Come on now, you are sounding a lot like that old poster RWaG except now you’re disparaging players that are no longer here but left a tremendous legacy. Leonard was first team Pac-12 twice and first team all freshman. She was also honorable mention Pac-12 Defense twice. Do you really think those accolades from the coaches in the conference were unearned, charity, a gift? Both her and Lex were strong defenders, quit[e] simply the level of talent surrounding them was not on par with them or the conference they were playing in, no slam on the players, just the reality of the talent.
These young ladies play their absolute guts out representing this program. They move here, away from the comfort and support of friends and family, and they make an incredible commitment to play Division One basketball. I don't think most fans have any concept of the amount of work these athletes put in. They put in so much time and energy into strength, conditioning, rehabilitative, flip that honestly we almost might need to consider at some point granting these athletes a second scholarship so they can go back after their playing careers end and give their educations the same focus and effort they gave to this game. We have some incredible young women and men in our athletic program, just exceptional young people, and there is no telling what they could accomplish in life, if they could pursue their education with the same drive, commitment, focus and effort required to compete at this level of sport, without the distractions of what their sports require.
If you want to advocate that Ken and Lex were the two best players in the history of this program, go for it. I have zero problem with that. I just think that Rick and Ceal might not be as willing as you are to put a statue out in front of the building, memorializing them.
I'm not one to put up with personal attacks, or anyone disparaging players that are here, or are no longer here. It is interesting how you parse words. I've made no disparaging comments about any of our players. In fact I haven't seen an ad hominem attack made by anyone here. I think most fans do a great job of keeping it about the game. Your comment that the talent surrounding our recent backcourt is not a personal attack on those players, as you say "no slam on the players, just the reality of the talent." My opinions should be taking in the same consideration as your opinions. Your opinion, as I understand it, is that the surrounding cast of a couple of players you perceive as truly great exceptional talents, were their downfall. If we are to respect that your evaluation of those players was "just the reality of the talent" please respect the opinions of others who also saw that backcourt as great players, traveled with them into hostile gyms, cheered for them, and enjoyed their development and accomplishments, but perhaps, viewed them with a little more objectivity than you are managing. I have no problem with you perceiving that backcourt as the greatest players to ever play for this program. I think any reasonable fan is going to see that as a stretch. However, to each their own. Fans see different things in different players. I saw a backcourt that really struggled in terms of "their level of talent" in the context of this crazy competitive conference, and I saw that for four years.
You use the term "Great." Great players transcend this game, their opponents aren't necessarily the other team but the history books. Individual players whose talent is so exceptional they single handedly lift a program up to competitive heights. Onyenware at UCLA took a program what was voted in the pre-season poll to finish 6th in conference and carried that program to the Sweet-16 where it should be noted the team that beat them at the NCAA tournament was none other than UCONN. Kelsey Plum arrived at a Washington program that was winning 20 games and getting to the WNIT or even the second round and took college basketball by storm as our game's version of Pistol Pete Maravich. Plum's freshman year she carried that Washington team to the WNIT semifinals and the next three years carried her team to the NCAA tournament, getting as far as the Final-Four, having two Sweet-Sixteen appearances. Unless you are going to suggest that Kelsey Plum's career at Washington was a function of the talent around her. I'll remind you that a captain on that Washington Final-Four team, and a starter playing huge significant minutes was none other than Alexus Atchley, a former walkon here at Colorado, and that wasn't good enough to remain on the roster here. Plum's spectacular talent was incredible and she was winning games at Washington with players that weren't good enough or talented enough to remain on the CU roster. Atchley, played with Ken and Lex their freshman year here at CU. Plum wasn't making excuses about whether the talent was good enough around her. Onyenware wasn't making excuses about whether UCLA had the pieces to complement her talent, yet. Aari McDonald transferred to Arizona, a program that was picked in the preseason poll to finish 10th (behind Colorado) last year, an Arizona program that had finished '17-'18 with only a 2-16 record in the Pac-12 (the same as Ken and Lex). Aari didn't make excuses regarding the lack of talent around her. McDonald became one of the most dynamic players in the entire country, and carried Arizona to 7 conference wins in the Pac-12 (Ken and Lex never won more than 5). Arizona beat ASU (a tournament team), Colorado (Aari had 32 points and with her superior athleticism shut down Ken's scoring she only had 11), California (tournament team), USC, Washington, Utah (a tournament team before injuries led them to announce they would decline postseason invites), Colorado again (an injured Ken only had 5 points 3 assists, Aari had 11 points and 9 assists). In Vegas as the Pac-12 tourney Aari was just absolutely electric and willed her team to upset USC, only to earn a game facing Oregon. Aari then went off scoring 34points against Ionescu and Cazorla (both WNBA level talents). Aari and Arizona didn't make excuses that they had the misfortune to run into Oregon in the bracket, they just went out and upset the WNIT with wins over Idaho State, Pacific, Idaho, Wyoming, TCU, and Northwestern. WNIT teams are no joke. Around here in we don't give a lot of respect to WNIT teams like Wyoming and Denver, but keep in mind that our senior backcourt that you want to annoint as the best players in program history, they were only good enough to make to make the WNIT a single time in '16-'17, and in that WNIT they were only good enough to win a single game. Ken had a great game, an incredible game against South Dakota State (who maybe should have been in the NCAA tournament), but had a terrible game against Iowa where her 2-14 shooting and 6 turnovers were the story of the game.
When Becky Hamman showed up at CSU, she would go onto be selected an All-American three times. Becky carried CSU to a 33-3 record in in '98-'99 and Sweet-16 run. Becky's number is retired now at CSU. Elite players go on to play in the WNBA, and their talent is unmistakable. Hammon came from the humble WAC (All-time leading scorer passing Keith Van Horn) but the lack of talent around her would have no bearing on her greatness as a basketball player. Becky would goo on to be a six-time WNBA All-star, two-time WNBA first team, two-time WNBA second team, led the WNBA in assists one season, was voted to the WBA top-15 Players of All-time in 2011, and the top-20 WNBA All-time players in 2016. Becky's number is now retired by her WNBA franchise, San Antonio. After her WNBA career ended she only went on to win, I believe, a Euroleague title. No fan can go through the CSU roster of players on Becky Hammon's CSU teams and identify talent that contributed to those historic CSU teams. Simply put, it was Becky. She is an assistant coach for the San Antonio Spurs now, and fans of women's basketball are cheering for her to be the first female coach in the NBA. Not WNBA, the NBA. Great basketball players transcend the game. Which is why Sue Bird is working for the Denver Nuggets.
The last two players that played anywhere close to that transcendent level for this Colorado program were Brittany Spears and Chucky Jeffrey. Both carried the Buffs teams they played on to some special things, and made the teams more competitive, and both were drafted into the WNBA. I just cannot reconcile your perspective of Ken and Lex, both good players for this program, with the players we have had that were historically great for this program. But that's okay. I think it is reasonable that we both remember good CU players with a different context. If you want to remember Ken and Lex as the two best player in the history of the program, and the greatness by which all other players that play for Colorado will be compared to, that's fine. You just can't get frustrated and attempt to browbeat others that don't share that perspective. Objectively, that duo only won 12 conference games and they lost 42.
Unfortunately, we get to see truly great players almost every night in Pac-12 play. Hopefully, the Colorado program catches up and is able to start recruiting on par. Because one thing we agree on is that "
quit[e] simply the level of talent surrounding them was not on par with them or the conference they were playing in, no slam on the players, just the reality of the talent." We just disagree on our previous backcourt. You go ahead and believe they are the best players in program history, and truly GREAT players. You go ahead and believe that Ken and Lex did not have talent around them. I simply recognize that, as a team, including Ken and Lex, our team talent was not on par with our Pac-12 conference rivals. That is not disparaging those players, that's just obvious watching the games and reading the box scores.
I remember that Ken and Lex's teammates were recognized for their talent. Arianna Freeman was a 5-star recruit for Louisville, and played in nineteen games for the Cards on a Sweet-16 run before she transferred to CU. Jamie Swan, MacKenzie Ellis, Janea Bunn, Lauren Huggins and Mya Hollingshed are all special and talented players. Zoe Beard-Fails was pretty good. Monica Burich still plays for Drake, and they received an top AP-25 vote. Haley Smith was both honorable mention All-Pac 12 and honorable mention All-Pac 12 defensive team. Annika Jank was three time Pac-12 Freshman of the Week, honorable mention Pac-12 All-Freshman team. Quinessa Caylao-Do was Pac-12 All-Defensive honorable mention, and Nevada Classic All-Tournament. Peanut Tuitele was Pac-12 Freshman of the week and honorable mention Pac-12 All-Freshma team. So, no I do not agree that Ken or Lex haven't had good players around them. They did have good players around them. You say Ken and Lex were GREAT players. It still wasn't good enough even with good players around them.
I believe great players transcend the game, make the players around them better, and play the history books not so much the opponents. The reality is our previous backcourt was not able to compete in this conference, even with good players around them. The almost lost four times as many games as they won. Maybe they are the best players in our programs history. If that is the case, that really isn't saying much considering where this program has been since the 2003-2004 season ended.The reality is that even if Lex and Ken were, and I'll concede that to you, the best players in the history of the program, that level of talent still wasn't good enough for the program to be competitive. We just simply need better players. I think my point has been this is an exciting time for Colorado Women's Basketball and the Pac-12. The players we recruit going forward are all going to be incredible. The conference is incredible and will remain that way. This year's CU team will be better than last years. This program is getting better and going to great heights. I'm inviting you to get on board and start rooting for the Buffs instead of looking in the review mirror pretending the conference record of 12-42 the past four years was "the good old days." This program has had a winning tradition in the past, and we are close to turning the corner to have that tradition again. Unfortunately, the past four years won't be remembered as anything but transition. We didn't have any transcendent WBA level talent, and we didn't have any postseason or conference relevance. Hopefully, JR Payne turns that around.
This is a tough conference. Maite Cazorla came into the Pac-12 at the same time as Ken and Lex. Last year Maite was All-Pac 12, junior season was All-Pac 12 and honorable mention All-Pac 12 defensive team, she was All Pac-12 Freshman team and honorable mention All-Pac 12. She was drafted into the WNBA. It shoudn't be lost on anyone that she was a backup for Oregon. That's how good this conference is. Simply put, we just aren't and haven't been playing on the same level with our conference rivals, nor have we had comparable talent. Hopefully, that changes. It is not fun as Buffs fans being the laughing stock of the Pac-12.
I'd invite you to move on and support and root for this program, instead of against the Buffs in some misguided campaign to prove that our senior backcourt was the greatest ever, by wishing the Buffs lose to validate your opinion. To be honest, I can't see where you are coming from, other than suspecting this is personal for you, being directly related to one of those players or something. Otherwise, I honestly can't see where your passion and intractable opinion regarding a couple of players from a largely irrelevant team are coming from. So let's agree on Go Buffs! If you are someone's angry grandpa please leave me out of your attempt to prove your granddaughter was the greatest player to ever play the game.
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