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The Coach Prime Conundrum!

BlackNGold

BlackNGold

Club Member
I did not want to put this in either the "Fire Prime" or the "Prime Effect" threads. There is no doubt that Coach Prime has brought massive public attention to CU and is a cultural phenomenon. His hiring has resulted in increased ticket sales, merchandise sales, and media attention. I liken it to the Tebow effect when he was with the Broncos. A lot of people were paying attention because of the individual not because of the underlying program. But the underlying program is what is important. Without program success the individual will cease to be important.

I have to admit I was never caught up in the Coach Prime movement. I hoped he would bring success to CU football but I probably did not get as excited as others.

Now we come to today and we are seeing the waves of enthusiasm starting to diminish. The Arizona game attendance was ~48,000 which means the stadium was not at capacity - and CU counts attendance as tickets distributed not through the turnstiles. So attendance may have been less.

My concern is the "Prime Effect" may have been more of a fad than a program reset.

The real question is where are we at as program right now? I am afraid to look too deeply.

I see many saying that we keep Coach Prime as a facade, where he can be the face of the program but others will do the heavy lifting of the program. Personally, I do not see a world where that will work.

I think everyone knows this team is not coached to a high level, I at least had some optimism through the ISU game because I saw a team that had some talent and would go out and compete. The last two games for some reason this team has chosen not to compete.

As we go into the last 3 games will Juju Lewis give this team some sort of spark. We all hope so.

But my question is where is the CU program with Coach Prime and what is sustainable now that some of the lustre has left. (My belief is Prime will be here at least 2 more years.)
 
BlackNGold said:
I think everyone knows this team is not coached to a high level, I at least had some optimism through the ISU game because I saw a team that had some talent and would go out and compete. The last two games for some reason this team has chosen not to compete.
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I keep saying it, but I really think the team chose not to compete when nothing changed during the bye weeks.

The players knew something needed to change, and nothing changed.

Why should they try if management isn't?
 
BlackNGold said:
I did not want to put this in either the "Fire Prime" or the "Prime Effect" threads. There is no doubt that Coach Prime has brought massive public attention to CU and is a cultural phenomenon. His hiring has resulted in increased ticket sales, merchandise sales, and media attention. I liken it to the Tebow effect when he was with the Broncos. A lot of people were paying attention because of the individual not because of the underlying program. But the underlying program is what is important. Without program success the individual will cease to be important.

I have to admit I was never caught up in the Coach Prime movement. I hoped he would bring success to CU football but I probably did not get as excited as others.

Now we come to today and we are seeing the waves of enthusiasm starting to diminish. The Arizona game attendance was ~48,000 which means the stadium was not at capacity - and CU counts attendance as tickets distributed not through the turnstiles. So attendance may have been less.

My concern is the "Prime Effect" may have been more of a fad than a program reset.

The real question is where are we at as program right now? I am afraid to look too deeply.

I see many saying that we keep Coach Prime as a facade, where he can be the face of the program but others will do the heavy lifting of the program. Personally, I do not see a world where that will work.

I think everyone knows this team is not coached to a high level, I at least had some optimism through the ISU game because I saw a team that had some talent and would go out and compete. The last two games for some reason this team has chosen not to compete.

As we go into the last 3 games will Juju Lewis give this team some sort of spark. We all hope so.

But my question is where is the CU program with Coach Prime and what is sustainable now that some of the lustre has left. (My belief is Prime will be here at least 2 more years.)
Click to expand...
I think the best outcome would be for Prime to medically retire. I have no idea if that will happen, but it allows both parties (CU and Prime) to save face.

That aside, CU is pretty much hosed.

If RG grows a spine and a brain, I would suggest he hire a Director of FB Operations that answers to him and "suggests" AC hires. Those suggestions would be more like orders. Also, Prime has to get out on the road, at least with the highly sought after recruits. I seriously, seriously doubt that would work because Prime's ego is the biggest problem. He might resign, tank it or go public (which would be a disaster). If, and again, I doubt it, he went along with somebody who actually knew how to build a staff to put AC's in place and let them do the preparation, recruiting, game planning, etc., it could be salvaged. I don't think Prime has any idea how to right the ship.

The third option is the one that is most likely. Prime is allowed to run it his way, and we get further confirmation that he wins only when he has a massive talent advantage. If that is what happens, CU flounders along at maybe .500 or so until Prime decides he has had enough.

I, for one, would love to be proven wrong.
 
You crazy sob, that is a great idea. Tebow for offensive coordinator. Ratings will be through the roof.
 
Bread said:
This definitely needed a new thread and wouldn’t have fit in the fire prime thread at all
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Did not post in that thread because I am not advocating firing Coach Prime and that thread appears to just be click bait and like I thought it has turned into a massive P*ssing contest.
CU knew what they were getting when they hired and extended Coach Prime. The powers that be and a majority of the fan base were willing to overlook his warts in order to bask in some of the limelight.

My point in this thread is that Prime brings a lot of good to CU but right now that is starting to look unsustainable.

When Prime was extended the AD said CU did not have the money to pay him but they would figure it out. Prime's Contract is such that he is owed ~$40+ Million is CU fires him and he owes them $12 Million if he takes another job - he owes nothing if he retires. So the whole narrative of firing Prime is ridiculous because it would destroy the AD financially. It also leaves the AD without any leverage - if they tell him to change he can say if you don't like it then fire me.

CU has to HOPE that CP can take a hard look at himself and make the adjustments necessary. My own belief is he will do some of that but not enough.
 
BlackNGold said:
Did not post in that thread because I am not advocating firing Coach Prime and that thread appears to just be click bait and like I thought it has turned into a massive P*ssing contest.
CU knew what they were getting when they hired and extended Coach Prime. The powers that be and a majority of the fan base were willing to overlook his warts in order to bask in some of the limelight.

My point in this thread is that Prime brings a lot of good to CU but right now that is starting to look unsustainable.

When Prime was extended the AD said CU did not have the money to pay him but they would figure it out. Prime's Contract is such that he is owed ~$40+ Million is CU fires him and he owes them $12 Million if he takes another job - he owes nothing if he retires. So the whole narrative of firing Prime is ridiculous because it would destroy the AD financially. It also leaves the AD without any leverage - if they tell him to change he can say if you don't like it then fire me.

CU has to HOPE that CP can take a hard look at himself and make the adjustments necessary. My own belief is he will do some of that but not enough.
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Posting in a thread with the title “Fire Prime” does not mean you are advocating for firing prime? It’s a thread for discussion about whether or not we should fire Prime. Your op and this post would have been fine in there lol.
 
skibum said:
I keep saying it, but I really think the team chose not to compete when nothing changed during the bye weeks.

The players knew something needed to change, and nothing changed.

Why should they try if management isn't?
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Did any of you as athletes ever take the field or court thinking, "the coaches suck", so I'm not going to do my best; who cares about my school, my teammates, my family, GF, the crowd, my opponents? Of course not. And no way 40 or 50 guys are going to abandon their pride and self respect that way.

I appreciate the sentiment There likely was a subconscious effect from being discouraged, but making a decision to rollover i can't see. Besides, what happens in the portal if you're viewed as a quitter?
 
cu3x said:
Did any of you as athletes ever take the field or court thinking, "the coaches suck", so I'm not going to do my best; who cares about my school, my teammates, my family, GF, the crowd, my opponents? Of course not. And no way 40 or 50 guys are going to abandon their pride and self respect that way.

I appreciate the sentiment There likely was a subconscious effect from being discouraged, but making a decision to rollover i can't see. Besides, what happens in the portal if you're viewed as a quitter?
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Reframe your question: have you, or anyone you know, ever mailed it in to subvert a ****ty manager?

If you think in terms of employees, and businesses, I think we've all seen work teams mail it in when they get a ****ty manager. Hell, there are entire subreddits based around sharing stories of exactly this dynamic.

Given where the ncaa is right now, I think we're much closer to the "employee / manager" relationship dynamic than we are to the amateur athlete / coach one that you're using as a frame of reference.
 
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skibum said:
I keep saying it, but I really think the team chose not to compete when nothing changed during the bye weeks.

The players knew something needed to change, and nothing changed.

Why should they try if management isn't?
Click to expand...
I was at the Iowa State game. We need to be honest about that win-they lost it more than we won it. Campbell going for it on 4th and 3 from his own 18 was.......bold. He makes a hell of a lot more money than I do, but I'm punting it and forcing CU to try to score rather than conceding a field goal there. After that, they ran a draw with Becht right before we got that final stop on 3rd and fairly long IIRC.
 
ahoelsken said:
I was at the Iowa State game. We need to be honest about that win-they lost it more than we won it. Campbell going for it on 4th and 3 from his own 18 was.......bold. He makes a hell of a lot more money than I do, but I'm punting it and forcing CU to try to score rather than conceding a field goal there. After that, they ran a draw with Becht right before we got that final stop on 3rd and fairly long IIRC.
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Right ISU is not a good team, which is why it would have been the perfect game for JuJu. I think this is where the season went south, when he kept going with Salter.
 
I don’t think competitors quit, per se, but they certainly can lose confidence and enthusiasm. If you don’t play with passion you can get your *ss handed to you. I think we see a lot of that.

Az second TD, when I saw them line up, I told my wife it would be a TD. No disguising of the coverage, cb alone on an island. QB had no pressure and never looked anywhere else. Simple play. CB knows coaches are hanging him out to dry. Kind of kills your desire.
 
72grad said:
Prime becomes talent scout and head recruiter. Vance Joseph comes in to rescue the program.
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espn deportes wow GIF by ESPN México
 
idle thought: wondering if CP's decision to elevate Salter from a small school to the 'big time', was made easier/more logical because CP had just made the same transition
 
Not sure this is the right thread for this...but I am finding it hard to care. Now, I have been a rabid CU fan since the middle 1980s (when I went there). The problems I am now having with CU is more about the state of the game than my team. I am a believer in the justice of players (at the pro or college level) having the right to be paid for their services and to control their destiny. But that doesn't mean it is good for the game. I loved baseball...until free agency turned what used to be a team i could name all the players on into a revolving door of mercenaries. Then it happened to pro football too. And now it has come to the last sport I have (abandoned the others over time) and it is both morally right for the players...but terrible for me.

I mean...how many of you guys used to have the Buffalo Sports News mailed to your house? Read every scrap you could get your hands on about your team? Watched the players grow up and impact the team more and more as they moved through their four (or so) years with our school...and then graduate and always be a part of our Buff alumni family? Rooting for characters you knew. That's what we have lost. We root for the uniform now (as we all already know). It's hard to care about a bunch of kids you hardly know and who will change dramatically roster-wise year to year.

It's probably just another case of "old man yelling at the clouds"...but when we talk about the future I find it hard to get jacked to spend a bazillion dollars, try to stay in a relevant conference, etc etc. when I hardly even know these guys who come in and out of the program all the time. No argument with the justice side of the way things have turned out...but it ruined baseball for me, it ruined the NFL and now it is here for my Buffs. Coach Prime is a manifestation of the era we have moved into. He would have made no sense as a coach for us if things were still as they were twenty years ago.

Just my two cents. And probably not even in the right thread. I miss caring with the intensity I formerly had. It makes worrying about the future feel more meh than it should.
 
BuffsRising said:
Yeah, Vance Joseph is never, I mean never coming back here, and thats a good thing.
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We have got to stop with this "let's find a former Buff who we can give the job to" and go find the best available guy who is prepared to be a successfull college coach. As we are seeing and have frequently seen coaching in the pros and coaching in college are two different things. Sucess at one does in no way mean a guy is qualified for the other.
 
MtnBuff said:
We have got to stop with this "let's find a former Buff who we can give the job to" and go find the best available guy who is prepared to be a successfull college coach. As we are seeing and have frequently seen coaching in the pros and coaching in college are two different things. Sucess at one does in no way mean a guy is qualified for the other.
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And yet we have talented grads everywhere
Top two college football announcers are Buffs
Head of X-Games is a Buff
Best DC in the NFL is a Buff
My take is that if someone really good is also a Buff, its a huge plus, but you are right in that it must be the best possible person.
My dream coach has always been Chris Petersen
 
4BienemyTDs said:
And yet we have talented grads everywhere
Top two college football announcers are Buffs
Head of X-Games is a Buff
Best DC in the NFL is a Buff
My take is that if someone really good is also a Buff, its a huge plus, but you are right in that it must be the best possible person.
My dream coach has always been Chris Petersen
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No question if the best qualified guy is a Buff hire him, if it is very close then the advantage goes to the Buff. Key is that we don't make it a priority in the selection process.

And yes there are enough guys out there with Buff histories who have been working their way through the coaching ranks that having one come up wouldn't be out of the question.
 
MtnBuff said:
No question if the best qualified guy is a Buff hire him, if it is very close then the advantage goes to the Buff. Key is that we don't make it a priority in the selection process.

And yes there are enough guys out there with Buff histories who have been working their way through the coaching ranks that having one come up wouldn't be out of the question.
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