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The Coach Prime Conundrum!

BlackNGold

BlackNGold

Club Member
I did not want to put this in either the "Fire Prime" or the "Prime Effect" threads. There is no doubt that Coach Prime has brought massive public attention to CU and is a cultural phenomenon. His hiring has resulted in increased ticket sales, merchandise sales, and media attention. I liken it to the Tebow effect when he was with the Broncos. A lot of people were paying attention because of the individual not because of the underlying program. But the underlying program is what is important. Without program success the individual will cease to be important.

I have to admit I was never caught up in the Coach Prime movement. I hoped he would bring success to CU football but I probably did not get as excited as others.

Now we come to today and we are seeing the waves of enthusiasm starting to diminish. The Arizona game attendance was ~48,000 which means the stadium was not at capacity - and CU counts attendance as tickets distributed not through the turnstiles. So attendance may have been less.

My concern is the "Prime Effect" may have been more of a fad than a program reset.

The real question is where are we at as program right now? I am afraid to look too deeply.

I see many saying that we keep Coach Prime as a facade, where he can be the face of the program but others will do the heavy lifting of the program. Personally, I do not see a world where that will work.

I think everyone knows this team is not coached to a high level, I at least had some optimism through the ISU game because I saw a team that had some talent and would go out and compete. The last two games for some reason this team has chosen not to compete.

As we go into the last 3 games will Juju Lewis give this team some sort of spark. We all hope so.

But my question is where is the CU program with Coach Prime and what is sustainable now that some of the lustre has left. (My belief is Prime will be here at least 2 more years.)
 
BlackNGold said:
I think everyone knows this team is not coached to a high level, I at least had some optimism through the ISU game because I saw a team that had some talent and would go out and compete. The last two games for some reason this team has chosen not to compete.
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I keep saying it, but I really think the team chose not to compete when nothing changed during the bye weeks.

The players knew something needed to change, and nothing changed.

Why should they try if management isn't?
 
BlackNGold said:
I did not want to put this in either the "Fire Prime" or the "Prime Effect" threads. There is no doubt that Coach Prime has brought massive public attention to CU and is a cultural phenomenon. His hiring has resulted in increased ticket sales, merchandise sales, and media attention. I liken it to the Tebow effect when he was with the Broncos. A lot of people were paying attention because of the individual not because of the underlying program. But the underlying program is what is important. Without program success the individual will cease to be important.

I have to admit I was never caught up in the Coach Prime movement. I hoped he would bring success to CU football but I probably did not get as excited as others.

Now we come to today and we are seeing the waves of enthusiasm starting to diminish. The Arizona game attendance was ~48,000 which means the stadium was not at capacity - and CU counts attendance as tickets distributed not through the turnstiles. So attendance may have been less.

My concern is the "Prime Effect" may have been more of a fad than a program reset.

The real question is where are we at as program right now? I am afraid to look too deeply.

I see many saying that we keep Coach Prime as a facade, where he can be the face of the program but others will do the heavy lifting of the program. Personally, I do not see a world where that will work.

I think everyone knows this team is not coached to a high level, I at least had some optimism through the ISU game because I saw a team that had some talent and would go out and compete. The last two games for some reason this team has chosen not to compete.

As we go into the last 3 games will Juju Lewis give this team some sort of spark. We all hope so.

But my question is where is the CU program with Coach Prime and what is sustainable now that some of the lustre has left. (My belief is Prime will be here at least 2 more years.)
Click to expand...
I think the best outcome would be for Prime to medically retire. I have no idea if that will happen, but it allows both parties (CU and Prime) to save face.

That aside, CU is pretty much hosed.

If RG grows a spine and a brain, I would suggest he hire a Director of FB Operations that answers to him and "suggests" AC hires. Those suggestions would be more like orders. Also, Prime has to get out on the road, at least with the highly sought after recruits. I seriously, seriously doubt that would work because Prime's ego is the biggest problem. He might resign, tank it or go public (which would be a disaster). If, and again, I doubt it, he went along with somebody who actually knew how to build a staff to put AC's in place and let them do the preparation, recruiting, game planning, etc., it could be salvaged. I don't think Prime has any idea how to right the ship.

The third option is the one that is most likely. Prime is allowed to run it his way, and we get further confirmation that he wins only when he has a massive talent advantage. If that is what happens, CU flounders along at maybe .500 or so until Prime decides he has had enough.

I, for one, would love to be proven wrong.
 
You crazy sob, that is a great idea. Tebow for offensive coordinator. Ratings will be through the roof.
 
Bread said:
This definitely needed a new thread and wouldn’t have fit in the fire prime thread at all
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Did not post in that thread because I am not advocating firing Coach Prime and that thread appears to just be click bait and like I thought it has turned into a massive P*ssing contest.
CU knew what they were getting when they hired and extended Coach Prime. The powers that be and a majority of the fan base were willing to overlook his warts in order to bask in some of the limelight.

My point in this thread is that Prime brings a lot of good to CU but right now that is starting to look unsustainable.

When Prime was extended the AD said CU did not have the money to pay him but they would figure it out. Prime's Contract is such that he is owed ~$40+ Million is CU fires him and he owes them $12 Million if he takes another job - he owes nothing if he retires. So the whole narrative of firing Prime is ridiculous because it would destroy the AD financially. It also leaves the AD without any leverage - if they tell him to change he can say if you don't like it then fire me.

CU has to HOPE that CP can take a hard look at himself and make the adjustments necessary. My own belief is he will do some of that but not enough.
 
BlackNGold said:
Did not post in that thread because I am not advocating firing Coach Prime and that thread appears to just be click bait and like I thought it has turned into a massive P*ssing contest.
CU knew what they were getting when they hired and extended Coach Prime. The powers that be and a majority of the fan base were willing to overlook his warts in order to bask in some of the limelight.

My point in this thread is that Prime brings a lot of good to CU but right now that is starting to look unsustainable.

When Prime was extended the AD said CU did not have the money to pay him but they would figure it out. Prime's Contract is such that he is owed ~$40+ Million is CU fires him and he owes them $12 Million if he takes another job - he owes nothing if he retires. So the whole narrative of firing Prime is ridiculous because it would destroy the AD financially. It also leaves the AD without any leverage - if they tell him to change he can say if you don't like it then fire me.

CU has to HOPE that CP can take a hard look at himself and make the adjustments necessary. My own belief is he will do some of that but not enough.
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Posting in a thread with the title “Fire Prime” does not mean you are advocating for firing prime? It’s a thread for discussion about whether or not we should fire Prime. Your op and this post would have been fine in there lol.
 
skibum said:
I keep saying it, but I really think the team chose not to compete when nothing changed during the bye weeks.

The players knew something needed to change, and nothing changed.

Why should they try if management isn't?
Click to expand...
Did any of you as athletes ever take the field or court thinking, "the coaches suck", so I'm not going to do my best; who cares about my school, my teammates, my family, GF, the crowd, my opponents? Of course not. And no way 40 or 50 guys are going to abandon their pride and self respect that way.

I appreciate the sentiment There likely was a subconscious effect from being discouraged, but making a decision to rollover i can't see. Besides, what happens in the portal if you're viewed as a quitter?
 
cu3x said:
Did any of you as athletes ever take the field or court thinking, "the coaches suck", so I'm not going to do my best; who cares about my school, my teammates, my family, GF, the crowd, my opponents? Of course not. And no way 40 or 50 guys are going to abandon their pride and self respect that way.

I appreciate the sentiment There likely was a subconscious effect from being discouraged, but making a decision to rollover i can't see. Besides, what happens in the portal if you're viewed as a quitter?
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Reframe your question: have you, or anyone you know, ever mailed it in to subvert a ****ty manager?

If you think in terms of employees, and businesses, I think we've all seen work teams mail it in when they get a ****ty manager. Hell, there are entire subreddits based around sharing stories of exactly this dynamic.

Given where the ncaa is right now, I think we're much closer to the "employee / manager" relationship dynamic than we are to the amateur athlete / coach one that you're using as a frame of reference.
 
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skibum said:
I keep saying it, but I really think the team chose not to compete when nothing changed during the bye weeks.

The players knew something needed to change, and nothing changed.

Why should they try if management isn't?
Click to expand...
I was at the Iowa State game. We need to be honest about that win-they lost it more than we won it. Campbell going for it on 4th and 3 from his own 18 was.......bold. He makes a hell of a lot more money than I do, but I'm punting it and forcing CU to try to score rather than conceding a field goal there. After that, they ran a draw with Becht right before we got that final stop on 3rd and fairly long IIRC.
 
ahoelsken said:
I was at the Iowa State game. We need to be honest about that win-they lost it more than we won it. Campbell going for it on 4th and 3 from his own 18 was.......bold. He makes a hell of a lot more money than I do, but I'm punting it and forcing CU to try to score rather than conceding a field goal there. After that, they ran a draw with Becht right before we got that final stop on 3rd and fairly long IIRC.
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Right ISU is not a good team, which is why it would have been the perfect game for JuJu. I think this is where the season went south, when he kept going with Salter.
 
I don’t think competitors quit, per se, but they certainly can lose confidence and enthusiasm. If you don’t play with passion you can get your *ss handed to you. I think we see a lot of that.

Az second TD, when I saw them line up, I told my wife it would be a TD. No disguising of the coverage, cb alone on an island. QB had no pressure and never looked anywhere else. Simple play. CB knows coaches are hanging him out to dry. Kind of kills your desire.
 
72grad said:
Prime becomes talent scout and head recruiter. Vance Joseph comes in to rescue the program.
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