Menu
What's new
By:
Filters
AllBuffs | Unofficial fan site for the University of Colorado at Boulder Athletics programs

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Prime Time. Prime Time. Its a new era for Colorado football. Consider signing up for a club membership! For $20/year, you can get access to all the special features at Allbuffs, including club member only forums, dark mode, avatars and best of all no ads ! But seriously, please sign up so that we can pay the bills. No one earns money here, and we can use your $20 to keep this hellhole running. You can sign up for a club membership by navigating to your account in the upper right and clicking on "Account Upgrades". Make it happen!

2012: Talent Gain or Talent Drain?

"Talent Gain" or "Talent Drain"?

  • Gain

    Votes: 62 93.9%

  • Drain

    Votes: 4 6.1%
  • Total voters
    66
Buffnik

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
Club Member
Junta Member
Something I like to look at every year is what we brought in for recruits and transfers versus what we lost to graduation and attrition.

Did we get better or worse?

Does your opinion change when you look at just the offense or just the defense?

Are there any position groups that stand out to you?

Any position groups we wished we had recruited harder for the 2012 class? Full class, so where could the numbers have gone down if we had?

(Grayshirts not included on list since they don't join team until 2013. Non-Scholarship players not included.)

QB Losses:
Tyler Hansen
Bren Burnett

QB Additions:
Jordan Webb (Jr)
Connor Wood (So)
Shane Dillon (Fr)

RB Losses:
Brian Lockridge
Rodney Stewart

RB Additions:
Donta Abron (Fr)
Terrence Crowder (Fr)
Davien Payne (Fr)

FB Losses:
Tyler Ahles (had to play LB after injuries)
Evan Harrington

FB Additions:
Clay Norgard
Christian Powell

WR Losses:
Toney Clemons
Jason Espinoza (had to play CB after injuries)
Logan Gray
Austin Vincent

WR Additions:
Gerald Thomas
Jeffrey Thomas

TE Losses:
Cordary Allen
Ryan Deehan

TE Additions:
Vincent Hobbs
Sean Irwin
Austin Ray

OL Losses:
Ethan Adkins
Paulay Asiata
Blake Behrens
Shawn Daniels
Ryan Miller
Sione Tau

OL Additions:
Jeromy Irwin
Alex Kelley

DT Losses:
Curtis Cunningham
Conrad Obi

DT Additions:
Tyler Henington
Kory Rasmussen
Justin Solis
Josh Tupou

DE Losses:
David Goldberg (DE/OLB)
Josh Hartigan (DE/OLB)
Tony Poremba

DE Additions:
Samson Kofavalu
John Stuart
De'Jon Wilson

LB Losses:
Jermane Clark
Patrick Mahnke
Liloa Nobriga

LB Additions:
none

CB Losses:
Jonathan Hawkins
Travis Sandersfeld

CB Additions:
Kenneth Crawley
Jeffrey Hall
John Walker
Yuri Wright

S Losses:
Vince Ewing
Arthur Jaffee

S Additions:
Marques Mosley
 
I think we clearly got better on the DL, DB and at TE. Our most noticeable drain is at OL where losing Miller and the shear amount of guys decreased our overall depth. I would like to see you do a two year breakdown as well.
 
o_robbie said:
I think we clearly got better on the DL, DB and at TE. Our most noticeable drain is at OL where losing Miller and the shear amount of guys decreased our overall depth. I would like to see you do a two year breakdown as well.
Click to expand...

What about the WRs? I don't think we really lost that much last year when it comes to the WR corps.
 
o_robbie said:
I think we clearly got better on the DL, DB and at TE. Our most noticeable drain is at OL where losing Miller and the shear amount of guys decreased our overall depth. I would like to see you do a two year breakdown as well.
Click to expand...

I think OL is a bit deceptive from a depth standpoint. Behrens and Daniels had injury issues and couldn't contribute and Tau's weight caused the same problems. Adkins, Asiata and Miller are the focus there. While I like Irwin and Kelley, though, that's replacing 2 starters who are now in the League and an underclassman who was expected to be a starter this year based on his talent. I would have to call it a drain even with the adjustments.
 
this is really tough to say until we see them play, so I am going to say talent drain and hoped to be proved wrong.
 
NashBuff said:
What about the WRs? I don't think we really lost that much last year when it comes to the WR corps.
Click to expand...

clemons was drafted and you might as well include RIchardson on the list. I'd say offense (drain) Defense (gain).
 
I voted Drain...we got new starters at RB, FB, WRs, QB, and TE. I want to be wrong on this one.
 
Gain at pretty much every position in my opinion.....the more kids we lose that were engrained with the HaLk attitude the quicker it will help the program move past the psychological "we're gonna lose"/"we can't win on the road" mentality that was created
 
It's hard to compare kids with 4 years experience to newbies. But based on pure athletic ability, I think we have a talent gain. Just one unqualified couch potato's view...
 
really hard to tell at most positions because the guys we have coming in haven't even put on pads yet.... but given the performance of last year's senior class... I would say it has to be a clear gain even if the 2011 class doesn't live up to its full potential.
 
I'm gonna say drain. But that is because I took the question to mean in the short term. While the incoming players may be better(and we don't know because for every Speedy there is a Marcus Houston), the losses of TH at QB, Miller and Adkins on the OL, Speedy at RB, Clemons at WR and Obi and Cunningham at DT are going to outweight the gains we get from the incoming frosh. The fact we are even discussing whether one class of incoming freshmen will be a net talent gain says a lot about where CU is right now.....
 
I answered based solely on the question of "talent". I believe we lost a lot of experience with those who departed, but the athleticism and talent of those that are coming in are better in most cases.

There are only two players who finished that I believe are more talented than those we brought in. Miller and Clemons. Clemons always had talent, and after he got his head on straight he showed it on the field. I don't know if the WR we brought in are more talented than he is. Miller was/is a talent, and I am not sure if either OL has more talent than he does.
 
Overall, I think we gain on both O and D, but I'm nervous about a the o-line and RB. We tend to get down on Speedy for not being the stud that CU has had in the past, but he carried the load for 4 years. Tough to replace that in one season.
 
I think we'll miss Harrington at FB. Based on his development in the system last year, I think he would have been really good this year. Powell and Norgard seem to have a lot of potential, but not sure how good they'll be as true freshmen. T Clem is also a big loss, particularly in light of P Rich's injury.
 
I see a drain only at WR based on talent alone.

If we are incorporating experience, then my analysis is probably pretty different.
 
CUFan said:
I see a drain only at WR based on talent alone.

If we are incorporating experience, then my analysis is probably pretty different.
Click to expand...

Yeah. If we're including the experience and age-based physical/mental development aspects then it's pretty much always going to be a Drain. I'm talking talent. Are we bigger, faster and more skilled with the new players versus the ones who have departed?
 
Buffnik said:
Yeah. If we're including the experience and age-based physical/mental development aspects then it's pretty much always going to be a Drain. I'm talking talent. Are we bigger, faster and more skilled with the new players versus the ones who have departed?
Click to expand...
Yes. Without a doubt, except mAYBE at WR. The two thomas's are getting a lot of hype.

At RB, although speedy was amazing, the trio of backs (and the two FB) are definitely making us bigger and faster. The skill is where we need to wait and see.

DL - GAIN
OL - loss
QB - Gain (sorry Tyler, you were HaLkized). Plus, depth!
DB - GAIN
LB - Loss (not a big one though thanks to depth chart stuf)
TE - Gain (ugh what a bad unit this was last year - Kasa stepping in and playing right away was alll you need to know about how bad it was)
 
Darth Snow said:
Yes. Without a doubt, except mAYBE at WR. The two thomas's are getting a lot of hype.

At RB, although speedy was amazing, the trio of backs (and the two FB) are definitely making us bigger and faster. The skill is where we need to wait and see.

DL - GAIN
OL - loss
QB - Gain (sorry Tyler, you were HaLkized). Plus, depth!
DB - GAIN
LB - Loss (not a big one though thanks to depth chart stuf)
TE - Gain (ugh what a bad unit this was last year - Kasa stepping in and playing right away was alll you need to know about how bad it was)
Click to expand...

Yep on TE. Deehan was the biggest disappointment to me last year. From the missed assignment on the 4th down play that cost us a game to pretty much losing his job to a DE (Kasa), WR (Thornton) and OG (Lewis) by the end of the season... it was pretty bad.
 
Buffnik said:
Yep on TE. Deehan was the biggest disappointment to me last year. From forgetting what play to run after a time out on the 4th down play that cost us a game to pretty much losing his job to a DE (Kasa), WR (Thornton) and OG (Lewis) by the end of the season... it was pretty bad.
Click to expand...
fify. The purest expression and epitome of a HaLk player (or what HaLk mentality did to his players) that you will ever see.
 
Buffnik said:
Yep on TE. Deehan was the biggest disappointment to me last year. From the missed assignment on the 4th down play that cost us a game to pretty much losing his job to a DE (Kasa), WR (Thornton) and OG (Lewis) by the end of the season... it was pretty bad.
Click to expand...

I'm thankful I didn't watch every CU game last season. Def a gain in the talent department.
 
QB: drain. Until proven otherwise, Hansen's competitiveness is the difference here. Yes, there is more depth, but I want to see what that means come game time.

RB: drain. Losing Stewart's talent and production; can any of the newcomers replace this (this year)?

FB: tie. Harrington got better as the year wore on, but both frosh appear to be more talented and either could contribute very early.

WR: drain. The Thomas duo (together) are prolly more talented than the 4 (together) who left, but I don't think either is as good (now) as Clemons. They will be in time.

TE: gain. Deehan was hyped, but didn't live up to expectations. Allen was a man without a position. Any of the 3 will be an improvement.

OL: drain. I'm only considering Miller here, since he's the only one who really produced. However, both newbies need time to grow and develop. A few years down the road -- I think both these players will be solid.

DT: gain. CC was undersized but a gamer. Obi was hurt and didn't come on until his SR year. I think Solis and Tupou upgrade the position this year.

DE: tie. Would have gone gain if TKO had qualified. Stuart will prolly R/S, but Samson AND De'Jon should see quite a bit of PT this year.

LB: drain. By simple math alone.

CB: gain. We could have a very special defensive backfield for the next several years.

S: gain. Mosley seems to "get it"; he's working hard to learn from experienced players. He's also more gifted than the 2 who departed.


just my 2 cents worth.
 
Last edited:
QB: Gain
RB: Gain
FB: Gain
WR: Loss
TE: Gain.
OL: Gain
DE: Push
DL: Gain
LB: Push
CB: Gain
S: Gain

Gain: 8
Loss: 1
Push: 2
 
Is it blasphemy to say that I was totally unimpressed with Miller? Not one time did I watch a game and think, "wow, thank goodness miller was in there". And sorry, but the same thing for Speedy. He got yards...but that's because there was no one else to give/get the ball to. Not being able to get the short yards when it really mattered is what drove me nuts. And as for Hansen, a true buff, was "halkinized". When the game needed Hansen to take it by the balls and get it done, he didn't. Ergo, I vote GAIN across the board.
 
CUAviator said:
Is it blasphemy to say that I was totally unimpressed with Miller? Not one time did I watch a game and think, "wow, thank goodness miller was in there". And sorry, but the same thing for Speedy. He got yards...but that's because there was no one else to give/get the ball to. Not being able to get the short yards when it really mattered is what drove me nuts. And as for Hansen, a true buff, was "halkinized". When the game needed Hansen to take it by the balls and get it done, he didn't. Ergo, I vote GAIN across the board.
Click to expand...

Miller was not perfect, but do you expect his replacement to outperform him? If so, not very realistic. Speedy was not perfect, but it was more than just him being the only option. He earned plenty of carries/yards with production.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top