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2019 and CU Fans' Program Expectations.

BlackNGold

BlackNGold

Club Member
I am a little disappointed in some of the reactions of certain fans towards coach Tucker. Here is a newsflash - this mess is not of his making.

Many on this board kept wanting to give MacIntyre more time in his first couple of years to get his players in here and coach them up. Tucker doesn't even get 3/4 th of a season and some fans are calling him a bust.

IMO. MacIntrye never turned around the CU program rather he achieved a low level of mediocrity that fans began to accept.

College football is about 60% talent 30% culture, leadership, dedication, mental toughness, and discipline, and maybe 10% gameday coaching ( I think it may actually be less).

Talent - Tucker took a job in a program that in the 4 years prior to him arriving was ranked 10th, 8th,12th & 12th in recruiting in the PAC 12 ( two 4 stars in the class ranked 8th never played for CU). So this team is playing to about the level of talent they have on the roster.

Culture, leadership, dedication, mental toughness, and discipline - I do not believe that MacIntyre created the right culture for winning football at CU. Gary Barnett always talked about leadership on a football team and without it you are not going to do very well. Tucker inherited a team that lacked leadership and was not very mentally tough, IMO. Unfortunately those things do not change overnight (or in one season), a few impassioned speeches do not turn it around. It comes about by coaching it into players from day one.

Game day coaching - without talent and culture your game day maneuvers are not going to make much difference. Having a lot of playmakers can make your play calling a lot better.

I don't know if Tucker can turn this around but I like the hire. I also don't expect it to be a whole lot better next year. But in year 3 we can better judge the direction the program is going.

I understand that people are disappointed but I know you have to give a coach a few years to turn it around.
 
Tucker will get 3-4 years to turn it around, but if you truly think the defensive coaching staff has done even an adequate job this season, I would love to hear that argument. It was extremely questionable on paper and that seems to be playing out on the field.
 
MiamiBuffs said:
Excellent post. My thoughts exactly on Tucker who inherited a hot mess.
Click to expand...
He didn’t inherit a great team, but he did inherit a back to back 5-7 team that returned just about every important piece in all 3 phases. There are really no excuses for not being able to at least duplicate 5-7, if not at least win one more game.

Are we really back to the “Mike MacIntyre inherited their worst program in the country” mentality?
 
BlackNGold said:
I am a little disappointed in some of the reactions of certain fans towards coach Tucker. Here is a newsflash - this mess is not of his making.

Many on this board kept wanting to give MacIntyre more time in his first couple of years to get his players in here and coach them up. Tucker doesn't even get 3/4 th of a season and some fans are calling him a bust.

IMO. MacIntrye never turned around the CU program rather he achieved a low level of mediocrity that fans began to accept.

College football is about 60% talent 30% culture, leadership, dedication, mental toughness, and discipline, and maybe 10% gameday coaching ( I think it may actually be less).

Talent - Tucker took a job in a program that in the 4 years prior to him arriving was ranked 10th, 8th,12th & 12th in recruiting in the PAC 12 ( two 4 stars in the class ranked 8th never played for CU). So this team is playing to about the level of talent they have on the roster.

Culture, leadership, dedication, mental toughness, and discipline - I do not believe that MacIntyre created the right culture for winning football at CU. Gary Barnett always talked about leadership on a football team and without it you are not going to do very well. Tucker inherited a team that lacked leadership and was not very mentally tough, IMO. Unfortunately those things do not change overnight (or in one season), a few impassioned speeches do not turn it around. It comes about by coaching it into players from day one.

Game day coaching - without talent and culture your game day maneuvers are not going to make much difference. Having a lot of playmakers can make your play calling a lot better.

I don't know if Tucker can turn this around but I like the hire. I also don't expect it to be a whole lot better next year. But in year 3 we can better judge the direction the program is going.

I understand that people are disappointed but I know you have to give a coach a few years to turn it around.
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Good ****ing lord. I have to respond to this-I'm going to apologize to @BlackNGold in advance.

One, I'm done with this team for this year-If I get my way next week (my brother's birthday), I'm going to ignore the Stanford game and watch LSU-Alabama. That's a hell of a lot more interesting to me than this ****ing clown show is right now.

Two, let me clear some things up with respect to Mike MacIntyre here. This program was the WORST in the Power 5 when he got here-we had no other choice but to give him the time he needed to flip the roster. He also had to go after 2018-the Oregon State loss was VERY fireable. That being said, he left this thing in significantly better shape than it was when he got here. That's not debatable. We all need to stop using him and the ACs of his who aren't here to excuse the shortcomings of Tucker and this staff.

We have playmakers. Go back and watch the 2018 Nebraska game and focus on Landman in particular. He's been GROSSLY misused by this staff. Same with Davion Taylor. We have the talent to go 6-6 and make a third tier bowl game. It shouldn't be that hard to ****ing go .500 here, and the fact that this team is probably heading for 3-9 has nothing to do with all that nonsense you spewed.

This is not a year 0 situation. I expect defensive staff changes after this season-and I expect a new coordinator on that side of the ball heading into 2020. What this staff is trying to do isn't working. We're the third worst defense in the Power 5 right now-Boston College and Arizona (after they gave up 56 or whatever it was to Oregon State) and 124th nationally. Its unacceptable. Lack of depth only explains away so much.
 
TSchekler said:
He didn’t inherit a great team, but he did inherit a back to back 5-7 team that returned just about every important piece in all 3 phases. There are really no excuses for not being able to at least duplicate 5-7, if not at least win one more game.

Are we really back to the “Mike MacIntyre inherited their worst program in the country” mentality?
Click to expand...

And your assertion is that everything is static - Last year the Buffs had 5 conference games at home and an easier schedule. I predicted a 4-8 season and I think that is where we will be.
 
BlackNGold said:
And your assertion is that everything is static - Last year the Buffs had 5 conference games at home and an easier schedule. I predicted a 4-8 season and I think that is where we will be.
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I don’t really agree that last years schedule was so much easier. Sure AFA is better than whatever OOC team we beat last year, but we replaced Oregon State and Cal (we lost both) for Stanford and Oregon. On paper in the preseason that’s significantly harder, but does it matter when you lose to all 4 of those teams anyways? USC, WSU and UW aren’t as good as they were last year, either.
 
Excellent work cutting through the nonsense and hysteria. However, I was hoping you’d clarify whether the MM cry-culture was a new CU norm or whether it ended with his departure.
 
HCMM left a better coached team to Tucker than he received from Embree. There is no debate there.

The overall talent level is close to even in my opinion. The difference is that Embree left young talent versus HCMM leaving older talent. So, the roster was in a worse position in some key areas, which led to utter garbage play in 2013/2014.

Let’s review the 2013 roster that HCMM inherited.

QB: Sefo, Gerhke, Dillon, Dorman, Wood, Webb (pretty bad, but Sefo, an Embree recruit, is the best QB on either roster)
RB: Michael Adkins, George Frazier, Christian Powell, DD Goodson (2019 team I saw much better here)
OL: Kauai Crabb, Gus Handler, Jack Harris, Jeromy Irwin, Alex Kelley, Gerard Kough, Sam Kronshage, Stephane Nembot, Daniel Munyer (In the 2019 class, you cant count Hambright who was brought by Tucker. It’s hard to tell here with some younger talent, but it’s not that wide of a margin, with 2019 likely better)
WR: Paul Richardson, Bryce Bono, Nelson Spruce, Devin Ross Tyler McCulloch (2019 much better, but that is not bad talent. We just have a ton now thanks to Chev)
TE:Scott Fernandez, Sean Irwin, Alex Wood (2013 was better, but never got to show it imho)
DL: Nate Bonsu, Tyler Hennington, Samson Kofavalu, Juda Parker, Kirk Poston, Kory Rasmussen (transferred and played well at Hawaii), Josh Tupou, Justin SOlis, Chidera Uzo-Diribe, Dejon Wilson (2013 way better, and remember Tucker brought in most of the players for 2019 in a scramble.)
LB: Brady Daigh, Jimmie Gilbert, Markeis Reed, Addison Gilliam, Woodson Greer, Jordan Murphy, K.T. tu’umalo, Derrick Webb, Ryan Severson (this one is tough because Gilbert was so good as an edge rusher, one of the most critical positions on the field. Probably close to a push here).
DB: Jared Bell, Ken Crawley, Jeff Hall, Greg Henderson, Marques Moseley, Josh Moten, Parker Orms, Terrell Smith, Yuri Wright, John Walker (remember cant count Onu this year who was brought in by Tucker, nor am I counting Tedric Thompson, Chidobe Awuzie In 2013 that were brought by MacIntyre, Crawley and Henderson both NFL guys, Jared Bell was a decent safety, Orms is comparable to what we have now, I give the slight edge to 2013)

I do realize that this a flawed analysis, given that we have no idea how good or bad much of the young 2019 talent will be. It was interesting for me to review the two rosters for perspective. In many ways, much of those Embree classes were huge contributors in the 2016 season.
 
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Da Lama said:
There's enough talent on this team to win 6 games. Fact. The coaching of what we do have has been disappointing to say the least.
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There is enough TALENT on this team to win 6 games. The question is whether there is enough CHARACTER, LEADERSHIP, COMPETITIVENESS, TOUGHNESS, and CHEMISTRY to win 6 games.
We have been blaming coaching around here for a long time and much of it has been justified, but at this point, I’m laying this BS solidly at the feet of our players.
Jay Johnson and HCMT didn’t tell KD Nixon to drop three drive sustaining passes yesterday. Those things matter if your Q isn’t tough enough to overcome some adversity and make the next play.

I’m ready to replace the HCMM guys and move on to players that can take hard coaching, and be mentally tough. There are certainly plenty of exceptions but overall the HCMM recruits have proven over time to be very soft and mentally weak in the heat of the battle. They are at least not tough enough to win 6 games no matter how talented they are.
 
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SBP said:
There is enough TALENT on this team to win 6 games. The question is whether there is enough CHARACTER, LEADERSHIP, COMPETITIVENESS, TOUGHNESS, and CHEMISTRY to win 6 games.
We have been blaming coaching around here for a long time and much of it has been justified, but at this point, I’m laying this BS solidly at the feet of our players.
Jay Johnson and HCMT didn’t tell KD Nixon to drop three drive sustaining passes yesterday. Those things matter if your Q isn’t tough enough to overcome some adversity and make the next play.

Your starting Safety has a man bun and quits as soon as he loses his starting job. Your best O-lineman is an Opera singer, Come on!

I’m ready to replace the HCMM guys and move on to players that can take hard coaching, and be mentally tough. There are certainly plenty of exceptions but overall the HCMM recruits have proven over time to be very soft and mentally weak in the heat of the battle. They are at least not tough enough to win 6 games no matter how talented they are.
Click to expand...

We're taking shots at a kid because he's an opera singer? Get this out of here. As long as he's going to class and staying out of trouble, I don't give a rat's ass about that and neither should you.

Let me say one more thing-this garbage isn't entirely on any one group of people-We've got a senior QB who has massively underachieved, and we've also got a defensive scheme that doesn't fit the talent we have (and coaches trying to force it to boot) as a couple examples. Very few up there are blameless.
 
Creebuzz said:
HCMM left a better coached team to Tucker than he received from Embree. There is no debate there.

The overall talent level is close to even in my opinion. The difference is that Embree left young talent versus HCMM leaving older talent. So, the roster was in a worse position in some key areas, which led to utter garbage play in 2013/2014.

Let’s review the 2013 roster that HCMM inherited.

QB: Sefo, Gerhke, Dillon, Dorman, Wood, Webb (pretty bad, but Sefo, an Embree recruit, is the best QB on either roster)
RB: Michael Adkins, George Frazier, Christian Powell, DD Goodson (2019 team I saw much better here)
OL: Kauai Crabb, Gus Handler, Jack Harris, Jeromy Irwin, Alex Kelley, Gerard Kough, Sam Kronshage, Stephane Nembot, Daniel Munyer (In the 2019 class, you cant count Hambright who was brought by Tucker. It’s hard to tell here with some younger talent, but it’s not that wide of a margin, with 2019 likely better)
WR: Paul Richardson, Bryce Bono, Nelson Spruce, Devin Ross Tyler McCulloch (2019 much better, but that is not bad talent. We just have a ton now thanks to Chev)
TE:Scott Fernandez, Sean Irwin, Alex Wood (2013 was better, but never got to show it imho)
DL: Nate Bonsu, Tyler Hennington, Samson Kofavalu, Juda Parker, Kirk Poston, Kory Rasmussen (transferred and played well at Hawaii), Josh Tupou, Justin SOlis, Chidera Uzo-Diribe, Dejon Wilson (2013 way better, and remember Tucker brought in most of the players for 2019 in a scramble.)
LB: Brady Daigh, Jimmie Gilbert, Markeis Reed, Addison Gilliam, Woodson Greer, Jordan Murphy, K.T. tu’umalo, Derrick Webb, Ryan Severson (this one is tough because Gilbert was so good as an edge rusher, one of the most critical positions on the field. Probably close to a push here).
DB: Jared Bell, Ken Crawley, Jeff Hall, Greg Henderson, Marques Moseley, Josh Moten, Parker Orms, Terrell Smith, Yuri Wright, John Walker (remember cant count Onu this year who was brought in by Tucker, nor am I counting Tedric Thompson, Chidobe Awuzie In 2013 that were brought by MacIntyre, Crawley and Henderson both NFL guys, Jared Bell was a decent safety, Orms is comparable to what we have now, I give the slight edge to 2013)

I do realize that this a flawed analysis, given that we have no idea how good or bad much of the young 2019 talent will be. It was interesting for me to review the two rosters for perspective. In many ways, much of those Embree classes were huge contributors in the 2016 season.
Click to expand...
The 2019 roster absolutely ****s on the Embree teams. What the hell are you smoking?
 
ahoelsken said:
We're taking shots at a kid because he's an opera singer? Get this out of here. As long as he's going to class and staying out of trouble, I don't give a rat's ass about that and neither should you.

Let me say one more thing-this garbage isn't entirely on any one group of people-We've got a senior QB who has massively underachieved, and we've also got a defensive scheme that doesn't fit the talent we have (and coaches trying to force it to boot) as a couple examples. Very few up there are blameless.
Click to expand...
Your right. I took it out. He seems like a nice kid. I’m still pissed
 
ahoelsken said:
We're taking shots at a kid because he's an opera singer? Get this out of here. As long as he's going to class and staying out of trouble, I don't give a rat's ass about that and neither should you.

Let me say one more thing-this garbage isn't entirely on any one group of people-We've got a senior QB who has massively underachieved, and we've also got a defensive scheme that doesn't fit the talent we have (and coaches trying to force it to boot) as a couple examples. Very few up there are blameless.
Click to expand...

Not only that, but on what planet is Lytle the best offensive lineman? He doesn't even start.
 
I had them at 5 wins, beating AFA and Zona, but losing to fuskers. Anyone who didn't think the defense was going to be atrocious wasn't paying attention.

I can't be that upset with win/loss, it's where I thought they'd be. I am most dissatisfied that we aren't in shoot outs. I thought they'd lose 50s to 40s. At least that would be entertaining. 30s to teens is just pathetic.
 
I don’t think it’s s too much to expect 6-6. When you have guys on the team that are legit NFL caliber players (Shenault, Brown, Landman), you ought to be able to craft a game plan that utilizes those talents enough to squeeze out 6 wins.

No way to view 2019 as anything other than a disappointment.
 
Not Sure said:
I don’t think it’s s too much to expect 6-6. When you have guys in the team that are legit NFL caliber players (Shenault, Brown, Landman), you ought to be able to craft a game plan that utilizes those talents Anouilh to squeeze out 6 wins.

No way to view 2019 as anything other than a disappointment.
Click to expand...

Well said.
 
Medford M. said:
The 2019 roster absolutely ****s on the Embree teams. What the hell are you smoking?
Click to expand...

I agree. Those Embree teams were the worst teams I think I’ve ever seen anywhere. I’m just trying deconstruct the notion that the HCMM roster he left was substantially better than what he received.

Don’t take my prior post too seriously. It’s more to just look at what MacIntyre actually received when he arrived. Both rosters are filled with massive holes. But MacIntyre took a lot of what Embree recruited and rode some, not all, of it to a good 2016 season. I think you’ll see Tucker massively overhaul the MacIntyre roster in a much different way.
 
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ahoelsken said:
Nixon dropping passes is one thing. A defense scheme that makes Nate Landman look average is something else.
Click to expand...
He has been in coverage way too much this year I agree, but I thought he played well last night.
Bottom line is that they are not playing hard enough to win and too many players are not playing up to their potential, most notably our QB
 
SBP said:
He has been in coverage way too much this year I agree, but I thought he played well last night.
Bottom line is that they are not playing hard enough to win and too many players are not playing up to their potential, most notably our QB
Click to expand...

You wont get an argument from me there-but I will say this. Jay Johnson and Tucker should not have given SM the leeway to audible at the LOS.
 
SBP said:
He has been in coverage way too much this year I agree, but I thought he played well last night.
Bottom line is that they are not playing hard enough to win and too many players are not playing up to their potential, most notably our QB
Click to expand...
Landman played awesome on Saturday, but that was when he was closer to the line of scrimmage and rushing the passer, and he is just not cut out for coverage! Our pass rush is weak, despite a lot of good kids. Looking forward to getting Pell back on the field.
 
Stampeder said:
Which six teams on the schedule have worse talent than CU?
There's a reason Vegas had the win total around 4.
Click to expand...
I would say at full strength they have generally as much or more talent on their roster than everybody on their schedule except USC, Oregon UW and Utah, who have all clearly dominated them in recruiting.

Of course, that doesn’t matter if our best players on both sides miss multiple games, and we sustain multiple injuries to our weakest position group.
 
Duff Man said:
Tucker will get 3-4 years to turn it around, but if you truly think the defensive coaching staff has done even an adequate job this season, I would love to hear that argument. It was extremely questionable on paper and that seems to be playing out on the field.
Click to expand...

Disagree, the talent was a huge issue to begin with on D.
With the injuries and lack of depth, there’s not much hope even if we had the best coaches in America coaching them.
I actually think the D has gotten a little better and they have made better adjustments in games than the offense has.
Our D coordinator is still a concern, but there is not much to work with. I am much more concerned with Jay Johnson not being able to do more on offense with the talent he has to work with and some of the play calling. We probably have wins over AFA, Arizona and USC with better calling down the stretch.
 
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I like Coach Tucker. I'm excited to see how recruiting ends up and excited to see what he does next season. But we should have won 6 games this year, and had plenty of talent to do so. There's no denying that.
 
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