Banners, and honoring past accomplishments

[RumblinBuff]

There's an ongoing twitter debate that I think deserves some time on AllBuffs.

The larger issue, in my mind, is that the Athletic Department has done a terrible job honoring the accomplishments, scant as they are, of the basketball program. Where's the NIT Final Four banner from last season, where's the NCAA appearance banner from '03, etc. When they put up the ribbon boards, they circumcised the program's history.

The debate then swings to individual honors. While CU doesn't retire numbers, they do honor career accomplishments. Do recent stars like Richard Roby and Cory Higgins deserve to be honored amongst program elite like Ken Charlton and Cliff Meeley? Would another two years from 'Dre put him up there as well? Chauncey was an exception to the 4-year rule, would that exception also apply to Alec if he goes on to star in the NBA?

For the record, I'm very pro Cory getting his #11 placed up there, and I'm iffy on Richard. If 'Dre keeps rebounding like this, and doesn't turn pro, I'd expect to see him up there as well. I think the '10-'11 team need to be honored as a team, rather than Alec, specifically.

 

[RumblinBuff]

I forgot a "no to both" option, if one of you awesome mods could add that.

 

[Buffnik]

I forgot a "no to both" option, if one of you awesome mods could add that.

Done

 

[GregInArlington]

I think they were both good players, but not that great. How many tourney games did we win with them combined, zero? No to both - but I do like both of them.

 

[Bass]

i think you have to yes to both. They were both great players and are the leading point scorers in school history. I know that the wins didnt come but that should not be used negatively against them.

 

[GoBuffs!!]

I said no to both. Should they be honored in some way? I would say most likley, but number retirement has to be for leading the team to something, and as well as the team did last year, I dont feel either lead the team to a bunch of wins. Both players were 4 year starters on mediocure teams, resulting in a lot of points.

I think another factor in getting their number put up in the rafters is how they represent CU after graduation. Chauncey has always kept his eye on colorado and has been a great supporter, How much has Roby or Higgins done? Roby, i would say little to none, Higgins, well the next few years are telling.

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

I appreciate what they did while they were Buffs, and I hope they continue to represent. However, if there are guidelines regarding FB players getting their names displayed in the stadium, then I think there should be concrete guidelines applied to other sports. If we shoot from the hip when selecting names to honor, we're no better than pro sports HOF voting, imo.

 

[CVilleBuff]

Need to do a better job of honoring team accomplishments, for certain.

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

If you do it too often, it becomes less special.

Sincerely,
Brick games

Sincerely,
Wally's bottle of conditioner

Lifetime Exemption Granted: CanadianDuck and his cheerleading photos.

 

[Darian3Hagan]

No to both but Ray Bourkes number should be up there.

 

[RK]

I say yes to Cory.

 

[Bass]

i might have misread the question, i do not think that the numbers should be retired, but i believe that they need to be recognized for their individual accomplishments.

 

[NWD Buff]

Banners in the arena should be reserved for extremely high honors, such as All-America selections, Conference Championships, or NCAA Tournament runs. I realize that this limits what will be hanging from the rafters, but, to me, there are other places where individual accomplishments (even within the arena) can be commemorated.

I do not want to see an NIT banner for last year. I will never forget the shame I used to feel when the Rockies had a "Wild Card Champs" sign in their outfield for a couple of years. I'm sorry, but that just looks stupid. Besides, when the Buffs are making it into the NCAA tournament regularly starting in another year or two, I do not think that those accomplishments should be treated the same.

 

[GoBuffs08]

No to both. They were both good players, but not great players. Save the honor when we regularly have 1st team all-conference players being awarded.

 

[TZISKIN]

No to both. They were both good players, but not great players. Save the honor when we regularly have 1st team all-conference players being awarded.

Richard Roby was a multiple All Big XII First team selection... and I also hate that he's the forgotten man among great Buffs. If the kid had any semblance of help what so ever, he would have been that much better. I love Cory and everything he's done for CU... but he wasn't close to as talented as Roby.

 

[Buffnik]

I think it would be cool to have our career 1,000 point scorers represented.

1. Cory Higgins & Richard Roby
3. Donnie Boyce
4. Cliff Meely
5. Shaun Vandiver
6. Stevie Wise
7. Emmett Lewis
8. Randy Downs
9. Michel Morandais
10. Stephane Pelle
11. Scott Wilke
12. Ken Charlton
13. David Harrison
14. Jay Humphries
15. Alec Burks
16. Pat Frink
17. Blair Wilson
18. Scott Wedman
19. Vince Kelly
20. Marcus Hall
21. Jamahl Mosley
22. Burdette Haldorson
23. Jim Davis
24. Larry Vaculik
25. Jim Creighton
26. Wilky Gilmore
27. Chauncey Billups

Austin Dufault entered the year at 668, and he has 262 so far this year (930 and counting) so he might make it onto the list by the end of the year.

A 20 ppg scorer would have to play 2 seasons to make the list, so even our best players would have to leave more as Buffs than 1-and-done. And not every decent 4-year guy is going to make the list either. Assuming that with post-season a team might play 35 games a year, that's 140 games over 4 years. Those would be good teams if they were getting 5 post-season games and a guy would have to average over 7 a game over that 4-year stretch to make the list. It would have to be a very productive player. Levi didn't even get to 800 despite his big senior year.

 

[rosstr]

Richard Roby was a multiple All Big XII First team selection... and I also hate that he's the forgotten man among great Buffs. If the kid had any semblance of help what so ever, he would have been that much better. I love Cory and everything he's done for CU... but he wasn't close to as talented as Roby.

Agreed. Roby got a bit of a raw deal with Ricardo's 12 seniors and that coaching change. All of the sudden he was the only player left in a new system with a bunch of freshmen and the big12 clamped down on him. He was more of a dynamic scorer than Higgins.

 

[dyemeduke]

Agreed. Roby got a bit of a raw deal with Ricardo's 12 seniors and that coaching change. All of the sudden he was the only player left in a new system with a bunch of freshmen and the big12 clamped down on him. He was more of a dynamic scorer than Higgins.

I like Roby...but I disagree - no, no and no. Roby was slightly bigger than Cory, and at the end of his sophomore season, he had more potential. But that was it. Cory was a better shooter, had much better handles, and was a better passer and defender. I'm not trying to dog on Roby here, but Cory was better in almost all facets of the game.

I think the following players deserve some type of honor for their contributions to the bball program - Meely, Humphries, Billups.

If there is an honor a tier below that, then a lot of players deserve consideration, including Higgins, Roby, Boyce, Vandiver, Burks, etc.

I just wouldn't get too trigger happy with these honors. It's nice to give them, but after awhile, the distinction goes to someone that might not deserve it. Look up at UNC's rafters, and while there's a lot of great players up there, some of them do not belong. Same at Duke. Whether it's retiring jersey numbers or giving them a slot in a ring of fame, keep it exclusive.

 

[Crash Davis]

I had to say no to both. Really good players, but I agree that banner space needs to be saved for more special accomplishments.

I just looked it up. Roby was 1st team All-Conference only once ('05-'06). He was 3rd team once and HM twice. Not sure that's banner-worthy.

Higgins was never more than 3rd team All-Conference.

By the way our last All-American of any type was Harrison.....HM in 2004.

 

[btbuff]

I had to say no to both. Really good players, but I agree that banner space needs to be saved for more special accomplishments.

I just looked it up. Roby was 1st team All-Conference only once ('05-'06). He was 3rd team once and HM twice. Not sure that's banner-worthy.

Higgins was never more than 3rd team All-Conference.

By the way our last All-American of any type was Harrison.....HM in 2004.

Just because Higgins and other players weren't respected by the coaches doesn't mean we shouldn't honor him. He was certainly a hell of a defensive player his senior year.
I can't decide how to vote because I want Higgins, Burks, etc to progress their careers before we take such action.

 

[Crash Davis]

Just because Higgins and other players weren't respected by the coaches doesn't mean we shouldn't honor him. He was certainly a hell of a defensive player his senior year.
I can't decide how to vote because I want Higgins, Burks, etc to progress their careers before we take such action.

The main reason I fall back on using All-Conference/All-American honors as a metric is it says how good and/or dominant a guy was compared to his contemporaries. That's really the only fair way to compare guys from different eras, which is basically what you're doing once you start hanging banners.

The problem with career stats in college sports is they can be skewed by a variety of factors, expanding schedules, a guy having more opportunites to play, etc. Someone mentioned voting yes because these guys are among the leading scorers. Well, Cody Hawkins is our all-time leading passer......should his name be on the facade in Folsom? I doubt you will find many who think so. I don't necesarily view Roby and Higgins exactly the same way as Hawkins, but you get the idea....

If you want to "honor" Higgins in a way that doesn't necesarily involve hanging a banner or "retiring" his number, I think most people would be cool with that. I just think people's perspective on Higgins is a bit skewed right now, due to him just having played here recently....