Better Alabama Coach: Bear Bryant or Nick Saban?

[Buffnik]

Bryant's Alabama record (25 seasons):

Alabama Crimson Tide (Southeastern Conference) (1958–1982)
1958	Alabama	5–4–1	3–4–1	T–6th		Coaches	AP
1959	Alabama	7–2–2	4–1–2	4th	L Liberty	13	10
1960	Alabama	8–1–2	5–1–1	3rd	T Bluebonnet	10	9
1961	Alabama	11–0	7–0	T–1st	W Sugar	1	1
1962	Alabama	10–1	6–1	2nd	W Orange	5	5
1963	Alabama	9–2	6–1	2nd	W Sugar	9	8
1964	Alabama	10–1	8–0	1st	L Orange	1*	1
1965	Alabama	9–1–1	6–1–1	1st	W Orange	4	1
1966	Alabama	11–0	6–0	T–1st	W Sugar	3	3
1967	Alabama	8–2–1	5–1	2nd	L Cotton	7	8
1968	Alabama	8–3	4–2	T–3rd	L Gator	12	17
1969	Alabama	6–5	2–4	8th	L Liberty
1970	Alabama	6–5–1	3–4	T–7th	T Astro-Bluebonnet
1971	Alabama	11–1	7–0	1st	L Orange	2	4
1972	Alabama	10–2	7–1	1st	L Cotton	4	7
1973	Alabama	11–1	8–0	1st	L Sugar	1	4
1974	Alabama	11–1	6–0	1st	L Orange	2	5
1975	Alabama	11–1	6–0	1st	W Sugar	3	3
1976	Alabama	9–3	5–2	3rd	W Liberty	9	11
1977	Alabama	11–1	7–0	1st	W Sugar	2	2
1978	Alabama	11–1	6–0	1st	W Sugar	2	1
1979	Alabama	12–0	6–0	1st	W Sugar	1	1
1980	Alabama	10–2	5–1	T–2nd	W Cotton	6	6
1981	Alabama	9–2–1	6–0	T–1st	L Cotton	6	7
1982	Alabama	8–4	3–3	T–3rd	W Liberty	17
Alabama:	232–46–9	137–27–5

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Saban's Alabama record (10+ seasons):

Alabama Crimson Tide (Southeastern Conference) (2007–present)
2007	Alabama	2–6[a]	1–4[a]	T–3rd (Western)	W Independence	Coaches	AP
2008	Alabama	12–2	8–0	1st (Western)	L Sugar†	6	6
2009	Alabama	14–0	8–0	1st (Western)	W BCS NCG†	1	1
2010	Alabama	10–3	5–3	4th (Western)	W Capital One	11	10
2011	Alabama	12–1	7–1	2nd (Western)	W BCS NCG†	1	1
2012	Alabama	13–1	7–1	1st (Western)	W BCS NCG†	1	1
2013	Alabama	11–2	7–1	T–1st (Western)	L Sugar†	8	7
2014	Alabama	12–2	7–1	1st (Western)	L Sugar†	4	4
2015	Alabama	14–1	7–1	1st (Western)	W Cotton†, W CFP NCG†	1	1
2016	Alabama	14–1	8–0	1st (Western)	W Peach†, L CFP NCG†	2	2
2017	Alabama	11–0	7–0	(Western)
Alabama:	125–19[a]	72–12[a]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Uncle Ken]

You've been cryptic today, Nik. Are we getting Saban?

 

[Sykobuff]

Hard to beat bryants record and longevity of success but, Saban, in this day and age has his team in it to win NC every year.

 

[sackman]

Saban has this figured out. He’s a machine. I hate him, but I’d love him if he was the coach of my team.

 

[BlackNGold]

They were/are each great in their own time. Recruiting was a little easier, IMO, in Bear Bryant's time because the scholarship limits where really high (or non-existent). The better teams would recruit players just to keep their opponents from getting them. Because of that there was less parity back then. But the South did not allow black players until the 70s which also was an issue in the other direction.

 

[MtnBuff]

They were/are each great in their own time. Recruiting was a little easier, IMO, in Bear Bryant's time because the scholarship limits where really high (or non-existent). The better teams would recruit players just to keep their opponents from getting them. Because of that there was less parity back then. But the South did not allow black players until the 70s which also was an issue in the other direction.

Bryant didn't recruit black players but for the most part he didn't have to compete against them either.

Recruiting was very regional but Bryant was able to dominate a bigger region than most schools did. A lot of the best players would come looking for him.

Saban has built something similar on a national scale but now when he goes after a kid other schools can easily find out and go after that same kid. As BnG mentioned Bear could take kids he never expected to be significant contributors just to keep them from other schools.

 

[Burrito]

You've been cryptic today, Nik. Are we getting Saban?

Bryant, Numbnut.

 

[CULifer]

Saban having consistent, super-success despite the heightened pressure and competition of his time is pretty clear. If he would stay at Alabama for another 10, which won't happen given his age, it would prove he is above Bryant imo.

 

[Buffnik]

Saban having consistent, super-success despite the heightened pressure and competition of his time is pretty clear. If he would stay at Alabama for another 10, which won't happen given his age, it would prove he is above Bryant imo.

What's scary is that if Saban stays another 5 it wouldn't surprise me if he adds 3 national championships to his total. I'm shaking my head as I type that, but I bet if Vegas put up a prop bet on this year plus 5 more of Saban at Bama resulting in 3 titles the odds wouldn't be all that long.

 

[skibum]

Bryant didn't recruit black players but for the most part he didn't have to compete against them either.

But when he did, the results weren't pretty.

See that Liberty Bowl loss in 1969?

Colorado put that loss on him. After the crowd spit on CU's black players and called them every name you could imagine when they took the field.

When he was told only one player could represent Colorado for the coin-toss, Eddie Crowder sent out his senior captain and defensive tackle, Bill Collins. Bill Collins is African-American.

Here's how Collins described it:
“A lot of them had not ever seen a black football player,” Collins said. “Others were even more vicious. There was a lot of name-calling. The ‘N’ word was coming from everywhere. I was 20, and I never heard stuff like that in a stadium.
“I went out to midfield by myself, and suddenly every player on the Alabama team came out to midfield. I’ve never felt more alone in my life.”

Now the best part of the story. After Colorado scored 9 unanswered (a touchdown and a safety) in the 4th to go up 40-33, Alabama started their last drive deep in their own territory. They ended up turning it over on downs on their own 11 with about 90 seconds remaining.

Colorado did not kneel to run out the clock.

Three straight runs with all American Bobby Anderson, even called time outs after each run. Scored a touchdown on the third. **** em up, **** em up, go CU.

But wait, it gets better. Seems Bryant already knew he needed to integrate his team if he wanted to compete. So he was recruiting a black fullback from Huntsville.

The kid came up to Memphis for the bowl game. Well the only black football players with whom he could hang out were on the other sideline. Guess which team left with a commitment from the future all-American and #2 overall draft pick, Bo Matthews?

That's how you do a ****ing bowl game. Win, run up the score, and steal the other team's best recruit.

Shoulder to shoulder.

 

[Alfred91]

But when he did, the results weren't pretty.

See that Liberty Bowl loss in 1969?

Colorado put that loss on him. After the crowd spit on CU's black players and called them every name you could imagine when they took the field.

When he was told only one player could represent Colorado for the coin-toss, Eddie Crowder sent out his senior captain and defensive tackle, Bill Collins. Bill Collins is African-American.

Here's how Collins described it:
“A lot of them had not ever seen a black football player,” Collins said. “Others were even more vicious. There was a lot of name-calling. The ‘N’ word was coming from everywhere. I was 20, and I never heard stuff like that in a stadium.
“I went out to midfield by myself, and suddenly every player on the Alabama team came out to midfield. I’ve never felt more alone in my life.”

Now the best part of the story. After scoring 9 unanswered (a touchdown and a safety) in the 4th to go up 40-33, Alabama started their last drive deep in their own territory. They ended up turning it over on downs on their own 11 with about 90 seconds remaining.

Colorado did not kneel to run out the clock.

Three straight runs with all American Bobby Anderson, even called time outs after each run. Scored a touchdown on the third. **** em up, **** em up, go CU.

But wait, it gets better. Seems Bryant already knew he needed to integrate his team if he wanted to compete. So he was recruiting a black fullback from Huntsville.

The kid came up to Memphis for the bowl game. Well the only black football players with whom he could hang out were on the other sideline. Guess which team left with a commitment from the future all-American and #2 overall draft pick, Bo Matthews?

That's how you do a ****ing bowl game. Win, run up the score, and steal the other team's best recruit.

Shoulder to shoulder.

That's an awesome story.

As for the OP, I tend to agree with @BlackNGold that both were/are great in their own time, and there are advantages and disadvantages that both had that the other didn't/doesn't.

If you pressed me, I'd actually have to go with Saban, even though he's coached there for a much shorter time, simply because I think it's harder to win a national championship these days than it was for a name school in Bryant's day, and Saban has made it almost look easy.

 

[Buffnik]

But when he did, the results weren't pretty.

See that Liberty Bowl loss in 1969?

Colorado put that loss on him. After the crowd spit on CU's black players and called them every name you could imagine when they took the field.

When he was told only one player could represent Colorado for the coin-toss, Eddie Crowder sent out his senior captain and defensive tackle, Bill Collins. Bill Collins is African-American.

Here's how Collins described it:
“A lot of them had not ever seen a black football player,” Collins said. “Others were even more vicious. There was a lot of name-calling. The ‘N’ word was coming from everywhere. I was 20, and I never heard stuff like that in a stadium.
“I went out to midfield by myself, and suddenly every player on the Alabama team came out to midfield. I’ve never felt more alone in my life.”

Now the best part of the story. After scoring 9 unanswered (a touchdown and a safety) in the 4th to go up 40-33, Alabama started their last drive deep in their own territory. They ended up turning it over on downs on their own 11 with about 90 seconds remaining.

Colorado did not kneel to run out the clock.

Three straight runs with all American Bobby Anderson, even called time outs after each run. Scored a touchdown on the third. **** em up, **** em up, go CU.

But wait, it gets better. Seems Bryant already knew he needed to integrate his team if he wanted to compete. So he was recruiting a black fullback from Huntsville.

The kid came up to Memphis for the bowl game. Well the only black football players with whom he could hang out were on the other sideline. Guess which team left with a commitment from the future all-American and #2 overall draft pick, Bo Matthews?

That's how you do a ****ing bowl game. Win, run up the score, and steal the other team's best recruit.

Shoulder to shoulder.

That's a great story.

One thing that I hope people realize, also, is that Bryant was not the reason for this policy as you mentioned. Football coaches (the good ones) generally give zero ****s about anything other than whether a guy can play and whether a guy has football character. Bryant lobbied for years for integration. Not because he was a crusader, he just was a guy who valued talent and character over any of the other bull**** that clouds the thinking of others. Vince Lombardi was very similar. You wouldn't have seen him in a Pride march, but his brother was gay and he had a close relationship with him along with several gay players and staffers while he was coaching. He gave zero ****s. Just treated people with decency while focusing on talent and character... and not tolerating it when others failed to treat these men with respect over **** that was irrelevant.

That culture and mindset is what is often so great about sports and has often allowed it to lead society at large in the right direction.

 

[MtnBuff]

That's a great story.

One thing that I hope people realize, also, is that Bryant was not the reason for this policy as you mentioned. Football coaches (the good ones) generally give zero ****s about anything other than whether a guy can play and whether a guy has football character. Bryant lobbied for years for integration. Not because he was a crusader, he just was a guy who valued talent and character over any of the other bull**** that clouds the thinking of others. Vince Lombardi was very similar. You wouldn't have seen him in a Pride march, but his brother was gay and he had a close relationship with him along with several gay players and staffers while he was coaching. He gave zero ****s. Just treated people with decency while focusing on talent and character... and not tolerating it when others failed to treat these men with respect over **** that was irrelevant.

That culture and mindset is what is often so great about sports and has often allowed it to lead society at large in the right direction.

This.

Bryant was a product of the south and lived and worked in the south. That doesn't mean he agreed with it. He wasn't a crusader for integration but as Nik mentions he pushed for it behind the scenes and was pushing for it well before that Liberty Bowl in 69.

That game helped him to convince the administration that it was time. I also know that the general sentiment of the Black players who played for him liked and respected him. They felt that he treated them fairly and with respect and cared about them beyond the football field.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Saban has this figured out. He’s a machine. I hate him, but I’d love him if he was the coach of my team.

Can you imagine having a coach at CU that was so successful, the entire fanbase was 100% behind him no mater what happened? I’m 29 years old and I can’t really remember a time when half the CU fanbase didn’t want the current coach fired, save for about 9 months in 2017.

 

[b3buffs]

Hard to say, I can't make a decision without knowing how much Alabama players were getting paid by boosters then versus the equivalent now.

Also, if ESPN were around to jock sniff Alabama for all of Bryant's tenure like they do today I'm sure some of his one loss seasons would have resulted in more #1 rankings.

 

[jizzrag85]

But when he did, the results weren't pretty.

See that Liberty Bowl loss in 1969?

Colorado put that loss on him. After the crowd spit on CU's black players and called them every name you could imagine when they took the field.

When he was told only one player could represent Colorado for the coin-toss, Eddie Crowder sent out his senior captain and defensive tackle, Bill Collins. Bill Collins is African-American.

Here's how Collins described it:
“A lot of them had not ever seen a black football player,” Collins said. “Others were even more vicious. There was a lot of name-calling. The ‘N’ word was coming from everywhere. I was 20, and I never heard stuff like that in a stadium.
“I went out to midfield by myself, and suddenly every player on the Alabama team came out to midfield. I’ve never felt more alone in my life.”

Now the best part of the story. After Colorado scored 9 unanswered (a touchdown and a safety) in the 4th to go up 40-33, Alabama started their last drive deep in their own territory. They ended up turning it over on downs on their own 11 with about 90 seconds remaining.

Colorado did not kneel to run out the clock.

Three straight runs with all American Bobby Anderson, even called time outs after each run. Scored a touchdown on the third. **** em up, **** em up, go CU.

But wait, it gets better. Seems Bryant already knew he needed to integrate his team if he wanted to compete. So he was recruiting a black fullback from Huntsville.

The kid came up to Memphis for the bowl game. Well the only black football players with whom he could hang out were on the other sideline. Guess which team left with a commitment from the future all-American and #2 overall draft pick, Bo Matthews?

That's how you do a ****ing bowl game. Win, run up the score, and steal the other team's best recruit.

Shoulder to shoulder.

Long before my time, cool story!

 

[BuffLuke80]

Never heard that story, very cool.

 

[OUBuff]

Is it off-season already?

 

[CULifer]

But when he did, the results weren't pretty.

See that Liberty Bowl loss in 1969?

Colorado put that loss on him. After the crowd spit on CU's black players and called them every name you could imagine when they took the field.

When he was told only one player could represent Colorado for the coin-toss, Eddie Crowder sent out his senior captain and defensive tackle, Bill Collins. Bill Collins is African-American.

Here's how Collins described it:
“A lot of them had not ever seen a black football player,” Collins said. “Others were even more vicious. There was a lot of name-calling. The ‘N’ word was coming from everywhere. I was 20, and I never heard stuff like that in a stadium.
“I went out to midfield by myself, and suddenly every player on the Alabama team came out to midfield. I’ve never felt more alone in my life.”

Now the best part of the story. After Colorado scored 9 unanswered (a touchdown and a safety) in the 4th to go up 40-33, Alabama started their last drive deep in their own territory. They ended up turning it over on downs on their own 11 with about 90 seconds remaining.

Colorado did not kneel to run out the clock.

Three straight runs with all American Bobby Anderson, even called time outs after each run. Scored a touchdown on the third. **** em up, **** em up, go CU.

But wait, it gets better. Seems Bryant already knew he needed to integrate his team if he wanted to compete. So he was recruiting a black fullback from Huntsville.

The kid came up to Memphis for the bowl game. Well the only black football players with whom he could hang out were on the other sideline. Guess which team left with a commitment from the future all-American and #2 overall draft pick, Bo Matthews?

That's how you do a ****ing bowl game. Win, run up the score, and steal the other team's best recruit.

Shoulder to shoulder.

That is some good ****ing **** right there. Said like a pure badass too.

 

[patebuff]

But when he did, the results weren't pretty.

See that Liberty Bowl loss in 1969?

Colorado put that loss on him. After the crowd spit on CU's black players and called them every name you could imagine when they took the field.

When he was told only one player could represent Colorado for the coin-toss, Eddie Crowder sent out his senior captain and defensive tackle, Bill Collins. Bill Collins is African-American.

Here's how Collins described it:
“A lot of them had not ever seen a black football player,” Collins said. “Others were even more vicious. There was a lot of name-calling. The ‘N’ word was coming from everywhere. I was 20, and I never heard stuff like that in a stadium.
“I went out to midfield by myself, and suddenly every player on the Alabama team came out to midfield. I’ve never felt more alone in my life.”

Now the best part of the story. After Colorado scored 9 unanswered (a touchdown and a safety) in the 4th to go up 40-33, Alabama started their last drive deep in their own territory. They ended up turning it over on downs on their own 11 with about 90 seconds remaining.

Colorado did not kneel to run out the clock.

Three straight runs with all American Bobby Anderson, even called time outs after each run. Scored a touchdown on the third. **** em up, **** em up, go CU.

But wait, it gets better. Seems Bryant already knew he needed to integrate his team if he wanted to compete. So he was recruiting a black fullback from Huntsville.

The kid came up to Memphis for the bowl game. Well the only black football players with whom he could hang out were on the other sideline. Guess which team left with a commitment from the future all-American and #2 overall draft pick, Bo Matthews?

That's how you do a ****ing bowl game. Win, run up the score, and steal the other team's best recruit.

Shoulder to shoulder.

So, so awesome

 

[Dark Bohner]

I'll gladly take either stretch at CU.