Big East and BYU talking serious...

[ScottyBuff]

Will a Mormon mission save the Big East's soul?


With a potential western division of Boise State, Air Force, SMU, Houston, and BYU it would be the "best of the rest" for the Big East to maintain not only BCS inclusion but solid football programs that have fan support and the best national following available.

I still don't see how it would work for Navy to be included since that would mean putting Louisville into the "western" division.

I think BYU+Boise would be enough to still convince AFA to join for football regardless of Navy's involvement, with an 8 game schedule and OOC games with Navy-Army and probably the ending of the annual CSU game (CU taking note?)

So, who would be the best western team to add as the 6th member?

Hawaii (damn the travel, they are the best program available and have rivalries with BYU, Boise, and AFA)
San Diego State (marginal football program, big market, prime recruiting grounds)
UNLV (solid hoops team, bad football, good size market, and would link Vegas with Atlantic City all in one conference!)
Memphis (hoops program would be welcome, easy W in football for other teams, not really "western" but more so than Louisville, FedEx$)

Or should they invite two, along with either Navy or East Carolina to get to a 14 team conference?

 

[SBG]

Fresno St? East Carolina packs in well for sure. The Big East doesn't have to worry about bball. It has to maintain its BCS status. Remember, there is no BCS for bball and the Big East has a ton of dominant teams already.

 

[MrFrumpylane]

Huh? I thought the Mormons left the East for a reason?

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

Realignment has gone from bizarre to ridiculous. Perhaps this is a "shot over the bow" of the big12-x-x-x-x-x-x+y .

 

[Alfred91]

Anything that makes me worry about the long-term viability of the Big Tex conference pisses me off.

Therefore, this pisses me off.

I don't know why OU and UT would invite WVU and not BYU, but they need to make this happen.

 

[DeNiro]

Anything that makes me worry about the long-term viability of the Big Tex conference pisses me off.

Therefore, this pisses me off.

I don't know why OU and UT would invite WVU and not BYU, but they need to make this happen.

They should invite Louisville and continue to poach the Big East.

 

[Buffskier]

I think Nevada would be a good addition to the "Western" division of the Big East. They have been respectable in football and basketball.

Or potentially UNM? They are getting better in football.... and are solid in bball. From what I remember, they have a pretty loyal fanbase as well that would support them.

 

[sackman]

Big East = WAC circa 1995. Teams spread out over 4 time zones, no geographic continuity, no cultural connection - a big mess.

Conference realignment has gone from the ridiculous to the sublime. West Virginia in the Big 12? Really? Louisville in the Big 12? Boise & BYU in the Big East? Absurd.

 

[CVilleBuff]

Big East = WAC circa 1995. Teams spread out over 4 time zones, no geographic continuity, no cultural connection - a big mess.

Conference realignment has gone from the ridiculous to the sublime. West Virginia in the Big 12? Really? Louisville in the Big 12? Boise & BYU in the Big East? Absurd.

And if the Big East does this, it would be extremely lucky to make it 4 football seasons like the WAC did once it reached 16. Regardless of what markets a conference possesses, a league stretching from Connecticut to Hawaii/California is asinine and will be an immediate failure

 

[Darth Snow]

And if the Big East does this, it would be extremely lucky to make it 4 football seasons like the WAC did once it reached 16. Regardless of what markets a conference possesses, a league stretching from Connecticut to Hawaii/California is asinine and will be an immediate failure

****ing NFL!

 

[Alfred91]

If these schools join the Big East, there's no way they can keep the name 'Big East' - let me be the first to propose the name 'Big Mistake'.

 

[ScottyBuff]

Looks like BYU is no longer interested either.

Makes you wonder if Boise and AFA are "out" also.

Hope they kept East Carolina's AD's number on their speed dial.

 

[Buffnik]

I wonder how much of this had to do with the BCS suggesting it may get out of the bowl bid game and just manage selecting two teams for a championship game. If the rest of the bowl season goes back to conference contracts along with options to select the most profitable team for the game, being in the Big East versus being in the MWC won't make an ounce of difference.

 

[MtnBuff]

Looks like BYU is no longer interested either.

Makes you wonder if Boise and AFA are "out" also.

Hope they kept East Carolina's AD's number on their speed dial.

With what we are hearing about the future of the current BCS bowls it looks even less likely that a guaranteed big bowl payout is in the Big East, or whatever they end up calling it, future. For the AFA (and Boise) the only advantage to joining the conference would be the idea of significantly increased money and exposure, now it looks like they wouldn't get either.

Air Forces best fit is either the MWC or as an independant. They are going to have trouble trying to match up on a week to week basis against AQ level teams but if they can play a schedule including their academy rivals along with some traditional opponents like Notre Dame and either a combination of MWC teams or a balance of teams playing OOC they can have success.


Again for Boise, unless they can be sure of major increases in money the Big East doesn't make a lot of sense for them.

 

[Buffnik]

With what we are hearing about the future of the current BCS bowls it looks even less likely that a guaranteed big bowl payout is in the Big East, or whatever they end up calling it, future. For the AFA (and Boise) the only advantage to joining the conference would be the idea of significantly increased money and exposure, now it looks like they wouldn't get either.

Air Forces best fit is either the MWC or as an independant. They are going to have trouble trying to match up on a week to week basis against AQ level teams but if they can play a schedule including their academy rivals along with some traditional opponents like Notre Dame and either a combination of MWC teams or a balance of teams playing OOC they can have success.


Again for Boise, unless they can be sure of major increases in money the Big East doesn't make a lot of sense for them.

Boise's play is to implement a 10-year plan to become a Tier 1 university and AAU member. That would make them a lot more attractive to the Pac-12 if the conference decides to expand further. Otherwise, they've reached their ceiling.

 

[buff4bcs1985]

Not anymore your not

 

[SBG]

Boise's play is to implement a 10-year plan to become a Tier 1 university and AAU member. That would make them a lot more attractive to the Pac-12 if the conference decides to expand further. Otherwise, they've reached their ceiling.

Yeah, that's not going to happen unless they get a major endowment to make up for their lack of being a High Research University for most of their PhD programs (which they only have 2 or 3 of). The cost would be a monumental to get enough top researchers and go through the accreditation process for their programs just for the sake of being in the Pac12. That might pay off, but would be a 30 year program, not a 10 year one. Right now having a degree from BSU isn't in the same vein as 95% of the Pac12 schools. Even if they were to increase the prestige of the degree, the snobbery of academia wouldn't let them into the AAU for a generation or two.

 

[MtnBuff]

Yeah, that's not going to happen unless they get a major endowment to make up for their lack of being a High Research University for most of their PhD programs (which they only have 2 or 3 of). The cost would be a monumental to get enough top researchers and go through the accreditation process for their programs just for the sake of being in the Pac12. That might pay off, but would be a 30 year program, not a 10 year one. Right now having a degree from BSU isn't in the same vein as 95% of the Pac12 schools. Even if they were to increase the prestige of the degree, the snobbery of academia wouldn't let them into the AAU for a generation or two.

And they still have to deal with the simple economics of the situation. They have trouble filling a 35k seat stadium, don't travel well at all, and have a very minor TV market without a strong appeal outside that market. From the standpoint of the PAC or any other major conference it will be hard to not view Boise as a money loser. They are going to take more out of the conference in revenues than they add.

You can talk all you want about academic status and programs, prestige, etc. but above all else it will be a simple economic decision and Boise doesn't make sense in that regard.

 

[ximianKernel]

The Big East was trying to add BYU as part of its plan to become a 12-team football league.
The deal-breaker was television rights. The person says BYU wanted to retain the rights to its home football games and the league could not agree to that.
No other school in a major conference has such a deal.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...gotiations-not-join-big-east-according-report

 

[ScottyBuff]

Wilner is putting some rumors out there that the ACC will expand to 16 and it will kill the Big East football conference.

-BCS director and some of the conference commish's state the potential to only use BCS for #1 vs #2 matchup and returning the bowls back to their own historical relationships for conference tie-ins.
-BYU turns down BE due to TV contract issues.
-AFA still waivering based on Navy and BYU's seeming lack of interest.
-Boise waivering on BE invite due to BYU and AFA's lack of interest and the potential "loss" of BCS AQ status, and the BE having almost as bad of bowl tie-ins as the MWC does. Now trying to propose San Diego State as an option.
-SDSU, which has very good basketball and baseball programs would face a serious downgrade for those sports outside of the MWC.
-For Boise, AFA, and SDSU why leave a conference that has a small exit fee on short notice, for one that might lose their AQ status and has a $10 million exit fee with a 27 month delay?
-For some reason the "invites" to Central Florida, Houston, and SMU still have not been officially accepted.
-UCF President has publicly stated frustration at the delays and "doesn't understand" what the hold up is.
-Now Wilner is "tweeting" rumors of UConn and Rutgers to ACC?
-Could that mean the "hold up" is that Rutgers and UConn aren't participating in the TV discussions knowing they might leave.

Maybe the Big East "dying" creates the opportunity for Conference USA and the MWC to parcel up all their teams + the BE castoffs and hold their combined CCG for a shot at a big-time bowl tie-in. Package themselves along with an Independent BYU and Notre Dame for a combined tie-in to either the Fiesta or Orange Bowls for the highest ranked team from the group?

 

[ScottyBuff]

Here is how I would organize a MWC-CUSA-BE "merger":

MOUNTAIN WEST	CONFERENCE USA
Mountain Division	Eastern Division
Tulsa	Cincinnati
Wyoming	Temple
Air Force	Louisville
Utah State	South Florida
UTEP	East Carolina
Colorado State	Marshall
New Mexico	Central Florida
West Division	Southern Division
Boise State	Houston
San Diego State	Southern Miss
Nevada	Southern Meth(odist)
Hawai'i	Rice
Fresno State	Alabama-Birmingham
San Jose State	Memphis
UNLV	Tulane

Each team plays their 6 division opponents and then 3 games against their other conference division (no games between cross-conference teams).

The winners of the each of the MWC Divisions would then play for the MWC title game to be held at the home site of the team with the best conference record (highest ranked team if tie). Same for the C-USA title game.

The MWC title winner and the C-USA title winner meet in Dallas' JerryWorld in a new "bowl game" in early December with the winner earning the highest bowl game bid available to the combined group (AQ possible if that still exists).

This year you would probably see Tulsa vs Boise State for the MWC title, Temple/Louisville/Cincy vs Houston in the C-USA title game.

Presumably that would put Boise State vs Houston in Dallas with the winner having a great "resume builder" to get into a BCS bowl game.

The MWC and BYU would have a bowl scheduling "alliance" in the western half of the U.S., while C-USA and Notre Dame would in the east. This season, BYU and Notre Dame would probably "outrank" the next best schools for the secondary bowl tie-ins (Las Vegas and Champs Sports?)

For basketball and all other sports each conference would be independent (just as they are now). This limits travel costs, maximizes regional rivalries and allows all of the schools to pool their TV rights. Any team coming out as the champion of that combination of conferences would have a really good case for a BCS bowl bid if they went undefeated, or even suffered a single loss but had a good season.

The Big East would survive as a "non-football" D-I conference, with most likely a further expansion into more of the private Catholic schools (like Xavier, Saint Joseph's, Valparaiso, Duquesne, Holy Cross, and St. Bonaventure).

The WAC and SunBelt probably would have to join forces with the loss of Utah State, unless the WAC can expand with Montana/Montana State and any other Big Sky teams.

 

[MtnBuff]

Here is how I would organize a MWC-CUSA-BE "merger":

MOUNTAIN WEST	CONFERENCE USA
Mountain Division	Eastern Division
Tulsa	Cincinnati
Wyoming	Temple
Air Force	Louisville
Utah State	South Florida
UTEP	East Carolina
Colorado State	Marshall
New Mexico	Central Florida
West Division	Southern Division
Boise State	Houston
San Diego State	Southern Miss
Nevada	Southern Meth(odist)
Hawai'i	Rice
Fresno State	Alabama-Birmingham
San Jose State	Memphis
UNLV	Tulane

Each team plays their 6 division opponents and then 3 games against their other conference division (no games between cross-conference teams).

The winners of the each of the MWC Divisions would then play for the MWC title game to be held at the home site of the team with the best conference record (highest ranked team if tie). Same for the C-USA title game.

The MWC title winner and the C-USA title winner meet in Dallas' JerryWorld in a new "bowl game" in early December with the winner earning the highest bowl game bid available to the combined group (AQ possible if that still exists).

This year you would probably see Tulsa vs Boise State for the MWC title, Temple/Louisville/Cincy vs Houston in the C-USA title game.

Presumably that would put Boise State vs Houston in Dallas with the winner having a great "resume builder" to get into a BCS bowl game.

The MWC and BYU would have a bowl scheduling "alliance" in the western half of the U.S., while C-USA and Notre Dame would in the east. This season, BYU and Notre Dame would probably "outrank" the next best schools for the secondary bowl tie-ins (Las Vegas and Champs Sports?)

For basketball and all other sports each conference would be independent (just as they are now). This limits travel costs, maximizes regional rivalries and allows all of the schools to pool their TV rights. Any team coming out as the champion of that combination of conferences would have a really good case for a BCS bowl bid if they went undefeated, or even suffered a single loss but had a good season.

The Big East would survive as a "non-football" D-I conference, with most likely a further expansion into more of the private Catholic schools (like Xavier, Saint Joseph's, Valparaiso, Duquesne, Holy Cross, and St. Bonaventure).

The WAC and SunBelt probably would have to join forces with the loss of Utah State, unless the WAC can expand with Montana/Montana State and any other Big Sky teams.

This would make a lot of sense for the schools involved and will eventually likely end up pretty similar to this.

I could also see 4 teams being dropped from the plan giving divisions of 6 with schedules of 5 division games 3 cross division and 1-2 cross league or again a 5-2-2 schedule. This would leave the teams with 9 games scheduled and 3 available for "money" games with the AQ schools.

Without doing something most of these schools are going to be left out of the network TV money and the bowl system. As long as the schools in the AQ conferences are making the money they make with the current system we are not going to see a significant change. They have the financial strength to maintain the system and they have the political strength to maintain the system.

A proposal like this one would give this group of schools a unified front to negotiate TV contracts and bowl contracts.

One thing I would think would be different would be that cross conference games would be a part of the package to provide some added national interest for TV purposes. This might mean a schedule containing 6 games against division foes along with 2 cross division and one cross conference or even a 6-2-2 situation.

 

[Buffnik]

They'll still get left out of the money. You've got 28 teams there and I can't choose two from the list where the matchup would be something I'd ever plan my Saturday around. They might get a decent tv contract, though, because CBS College Sports and NBC/Versus both need live football programming.

 

[ScottyBuff]

They'll still get left out of the money. You've got 28 teams there and I can't choose two from the list where the matchup would be something I'd ever plan my Saturday around. They might get a decent tv contract, though, because CBS College Sports and NBC/Versus both need live football programming.

That is why it is important for these schools to have regional rivalries that will help their gameday attendance and fan interest.

The point about having that much inventory isn't to broadcast ALL of those games on a network, but having that many options means the network can be assured of having good matchups and storylines every week. In the current MWC season only the Boise-TCU game had any TV appeal; and in C-USA; maybe Houston-SMU and Houston-Tulsa. In a "conference-alliance" it gives them better choices for the "game of the week" by having more than twice the inventory to choose from, so if UTEP and New Mexico are both 8-0 then that game is the one that gets aired, but next season it might be East Carolina-Louisville. Sort of like the NFL flex scheduling that allows them to not be locked into airing games that feature two teams that are 2-6. Along with regional rivalries like Wyoming-CSU, New Mexico-UTEP, San Diego State-Fresno State, Fresno State-Nevada, Nevada-UNLV, Houston-SMU, Houston-Rice, Cincy-Louisville, and USF-UCF you would be increasing the chances of having some appealing games if they were having successful seasons but it wouldn't be such a downside if half of them were "down" because you would other choices to pick from.

It certainly won't break the bank in regards to TV money, but I doubt the Big East can do that anyway in their next negotiations; but it certainly would curtail a huge spike in travel costs and fan disillusionment and non-football sports revenue declines.

 

[MtnBuff]

They'll still get left out of the money. You've got 28 teams there and I can't choose two from the list where the matchup would be something I'd ever plan my Saturday around. They might get a decent tv contract, though, because CBS College Sports and NBC/Versus both need live football programming.

They aren't going to get PAC/Big10/SEC money or anything close to it. Most of the country could care less about these teams unless they are an OOC opponent for an AQ school.

That said NBC/Versus, CBS College Sports, the Fox regionals and others like Root, and a bunch of ESPN networks all need programing. As a unified front they can likely have more effective negotiating power with these networks and maximize their TV contracts. There are also a boatload of mid-level and below bowls that need teams to fill slots.

They are likely to end up playing weeknights, early/late slots, etc. but they have to do something because otherwise they are going to get squeezed completely out of the game.

I still would argue that as college football continues to see bigger and bigger divisions between the haves and have nots some of the current marginal schools will be forced down into FCS level. Your plan doesn't even address the Sun Belt schools. Schools like Wyoming and CSU are struggling to make it now with their ability to generate revenues. I have to think that a school like San Jose or Utah State has very limited growth potential above what they already have. Rice is already out of their league in terms of the resources the school could devote to further development of the program.

Some of the eastern schools like Marshall and East Carolina face the same issues. They aren't far removed from FCS status and with athletic budgets less than Texas spends on towels and soap it will be hard for them to compete in the future.

 

[ScottyBuff]

They aren't going to get PAC/Big10/SEC money or anything close to it. Most of the country could care less about these teams unless they are an OOC opponent for an AQ school.

That said NBC/Versus, CBS College Sports, the Fox regionals and others like Root, and a bunch of ESPN networks all need programing. As a unified front they can likely have more effective negotiating power with these networks and maximize their TV contracts. There are also a boatload of mid-level and below bowls that need teams to fill slots.

They are likely to end up playing weeknights, early/late slots, etc. but they have to do something because otherwise they are going to get squeezed completely out of the game.

I still would argue that as college football continues to see bigger and bigger divisions between the haves and have nots some of the current marginal schools will be forced down into FCS level. Your plan doesn't even address the Sun Belt schools. Schools like Wyoming and CSU are struggling to make it now with their ability to generate revenues. I have to think that a school like San Jose or Utah State has very limited growth potential above what they already have. Rice is already out of their league in terms of the resources the school could devote to further development of the program.

Some of the eastern schools like Marshall and East Carolina face the same issues. They aren't far removed from FCS status and with athletic budgets less than Texas spends on towels and soap it will be hard for them to compete in the future.

I think you misjudge ECU's athletic department's financial state. They would be considered a powerhouse up against other C-USA schools and would challenge even some of the current Big East schools in regards to financial stability, and that is without a BCS TV contract. They just expanded their football stadium to 50k seats with future plans to get to 62k; and they fill those seats too.

I think the WAC and SunBelt are on a collission course for a low-end merger.

The 7 team divisions could easily be paired back to 6 without the inclusion of Rice, Temple, UAB, and San Jose State (move Tulsa to the Southern Division). That would remove some "extra mouths to feed" but keeping the programs that have the most potential.

I agree about some programs being "near FCS" as well and needing to do something to protect themselves. CSU and Wyoming are prime examples of being near the "cutting line". Tulane was in a similar situation to Temple, but I kept them included because they seem to be reinvesting into their program and they have a huge upside potential as being the "#2" team in the state of Louisiana and in the city of New Orleans.

 

[MtnBuff]

I think you misjudge ECU's athletic department's financial state. They would be considered a powerhouse up against other C-USA schools and would challenge even some of the current Big East schools in regards to financial stability, and that is without a BCS TV contract. They just expanded their football stadium to 50k seats with future plans to get to 62k; and they fill those seats too.

I think the WAC and SunBelt are on a collission course for a low-end merger.

The 7 team divisions could easily be paired back to 6 without the inclusion of Rice, Temple, UAB, and San Jose State (move Tulsa to the Southern Division). That would remove some "extra mouths to feed" but keeping the programs that have the most potential.

I agree about some programs being "near FCS" as well and needing to do something to protect themselves. CSU and Wyoming are prime examples of being near the "cutting line". Tulane was in a similar situation to Temple, but I kept them included because they seem to be reinvesting into their program and they have a huge upside potential as being the "#2" team in the state of Louisiana and in the city of New Orleans.

Wasn't aware of ECU's situation, just going from impressions and memory. Some of the other school's you list at the well stated "cutting line" make more sense.

 

[CarolinaBuff]

Tough draw for ECU if they get left out of one of the major conferences, which looks like what will happen. They have the 2nd-highest attendance among current non-BCS schools next to BYU.