Blown scholarships on bad QBs

[boydbuff]

I think this has come up in the recruiting forum in the past but how many schollies have JE & Co. blown on bad QBs?

Wood (although I thought he was going to be good but I don't get paid to recruit)
Webb-nuff said
Dorman-Is he still on the team?
That Juco QB who already left the team

What does this say about our staff? I know JE was worried about the quality of QBs on the roster he inherited (w/ good reason) so he was trying to acquire options, but man, not a good track record recruiting the most important position on the team.

I know we all feel more optimistic about Dillon and Sefo, but let's see.

 

[buff4bcs1985]

I think this has come up in the recruiting forum in the past but how many schollies have JE & Co. blown on bad QBs?

Wood (although I thought he was going to be good but I don't get paid to recruit)
Webb-nuff said
Dorman-Is he still on the team?
That Juco QB who already left the team

What does this say about our staff? I know JE was worried about the quality of QBs on the roster he inherited (w/ good reason) so he was trying to acquire options, but man, not a good track record recruiting the most important position on the team.

I know we all feel more optimistic about Dillon and Sefo, but let's see.

bringing in brent burnette was absolutely the right decision... he was brought in to be the emergency QB wood was the right decision... webb well the results were atrocious was also the right decision because clearly the 2 other qb's werent good and he tried something... dorman was the only one that leaves my head scratching

 

[leftybuff]

I dunno, you would think at least one of the five would be a player....

 

[Buffnik]

It's fortunate that Embree had the Hawkins recruits around or this team would probably be bad.

 

[MtnBuff]

I honestly think that Wood could be a very good QB with the right coaching and a system that has a chance to succeed. Here they have put everything they have into Webb then act surprised when Wood doesn't play like a guy with a lot of time and attention in practice. I also agree with other here who say that running the WCO is to much for college kid to master.

Webb would have been the ideal guy to have as a back-up who could come in without a lot of practice time and run the offense, he should never have been the starter.


Dorman was a combination of a panic pick-up in the first class and a favor to the Detmers, should never have happened but in the short time they had I won't get to upset about that one.


The JC guy, and I forget his name as well was another panic move, he wasn't good enough.


I am more optimistic about Dillon and very optimistic about Sefu but as long as the system is as disfunctional as it is we aren't going to see success regardless of the QB.

 

[Idot Buff]

It's fortunate that Embree had the Hawkins recruits around or this team would probably be bad.

Haha. Boy...you are on a mission. Keep it up.

 

[Ozbuff]

I think Dillon and Liufau will tell the tale of whether this coaching staff can spot and recruit QB talent. I don't think the staff will be around to coach them, but it's way too early to say they can't spot/recruit QBs. Dorman and Burnette didn't work out, but that was the first class. Dillon we haven't seen yet. Wood wasn't someone they recruited, just someone that fell into their laps and was highly regarded coming out of high school so they took a shot. The biggest mistake to me was bringing Webb in and naming him a starter. He should have been a back up with Wood starting. I think the staff assumed that Webb wouldn't make mistakes and just by limiting mistakes they'd beat the likes of CSU, Sac State, FSU and WSU. They didn't want to risk losing early in the season by starting Wood who is more talented, but also erratic (see first quarter for Washington game). As it turned out, we lost those early games (except WSU) anyway so in hindsight starting Webb was not a good decision.

Of course, if our defense was even half way decent that would help.

In the end, the fatal mistake Embree made was assuming that a staff full of guys that bleed black and gold and work their butts off would be good enough. The evidence suggests that it's not. I think Embree could have been successful had he hired experienced, proven coordinators. I also think that EB could have been successful as HC (if he'd been hired instead of Embree) if he'd hired experienced, proven coordinators. We'll never know how it would have turned out. Expect the staff to be fired soon after the Utah game.

 

[Buffnik]

Haha. Boy...you are on a mission. Keep it up.

It does beg the question, though. How much better would the team be if Embree would have focused on coaching to what he had and coordinating to what he had instead of spending so much effort on forcing guys out?

Turns out that after all the time spent on Burnett, Webb and Wood (when Hirschman was better)... all the time spent recruiting Dorman (when Sherry was better + more highly rated & they had Schrock as a walk-on in their back pocket)... was wasted time, effort and recruiting budget.

So it forces me to wonder what other positions have had this problem? Maybe our defense would be better if we had Forrest West and Liloa Nobriga right now? Maybe our offense would be better if we had Will Jefferson at WR right now?

Did the irrational hatred that Embree and other Buffs4Lifers had for Dan Hawkins and anything associated with him cause unfair treatment of players and bad decisions that significantly set back this program?

Food for thought.

 

[Duff Man]

I honestly think that Wood could be a very good QB with the right coaching and a system that has a chance to succeed. Here they have put everything they have into Webb then act surprised when Wood doesn't play like a guy with a lot of time and attention in practice. I also agree with other here who say that running the WCO is to much for college kid to master.

Are we talking about the same guy who took every first team rep in spring practices? Or someone else?

 

[jpbuff]

I would have liked to see what Wood would have done being named the starter and Webb not ever arriving on campus. I agree with what another poster said. This staff seems to think Wood can step right in after 10 games of the season and look good. I was so pissed they pulled him on Saturday. I know he wasn't having a good game but give the kid a chance. Oh well, its on Shane and Sefo from here on out.

 

[lawdogg]

It does beg the question, though. How much better would the team be if Embree would have focused on coaching to what he had and coordinating to what he had instead of spending so much effort on forcing guys out?

Turns out that after all the time spent on Burnett, Webb and Wood (when Hirschman was better)... all the time spent recruiting Dorman (when Sherry was better + more highly rated & they had Schrock as a walk-on in their back pocket)... was wasted time, effort and recruiting budget.

So it forces me to wonder what other positions have had this problem? Maybe our defense would be better if we had Forrest West and Liloa Nobriga right now? Maybe our offense would be better if we had Will Jefferson at WR right now?

Did the irrational hatred that Embree and other Buffs4Lifers had for Dan Hawkins and anything associated with him cause unfair treatment of players and bad decisions that significantly set back this program?

Food for thought.

Fair enough to question this staff on pretty much anything at this point, but I don't know that I'm ready to start pining for the good old days of Will Jefferson and Forrest West. There was broad support at the time for "changing the culture" the had been developed under Coach Hawkins to include a sentiment that we'd be better off with some of those players moving on. I'll gladly criticize the staff for a great many things, but not for something that I generally supported when it happened. Also, if this staff is as bad as they appear to be, the guys mentioned above would have been just as underdeveloped as our current roster. Just my two cents.

 

[MtnBuff]

Are we talking about the same guy who took every first team rep in spring practices? Or someone else?

Yes, and the same guy who found himself as the odd man out as soon as the coaches decided to fall in love with Cody II based on film room time and practice.

I'm not saying that Wood would have developed into a great QB, what I am saying is that Webb was way to limited to ever even be a decent QB. What Wood has wrong are things that can be fixed with coaching and playing time, what Webb has wrong are things that no amount of coaching or playing time will ever fix.

I also am absolutely not a Hirschmann fan, sorry but I don't think he has it. Not saying Wood does but of the bunch Wood is the only one I have seen that looks like he could get there.

All of this doesn't really matter though since we have virtually no gamebreakers around whoever plays and a system that is clearly far from working. Considering that with our defense, the offense needs to score at least in the 40's to give us a chance it is all hopeless no matter who plays.

 

[Duff Man]

Yes, and the same guy who found himself as the odd man out as soon as the coaches decided to fall in love with Cody II based on film room time and practice.

I'm not saying that Wood would have developed into a great QB, what I am saying is that Webb was way to limited to ever even be a decent QB. What Wood has wrong are things that can be fixed with coaching and playing time, what Webb has wrong are things that no amount of coaching or playing time will ever fix.

I also am absolutely not a Hirschmann fan, sorry but I don't think he has it. Not saying Wood does but of the bunch Wood is the only one I have seen that looks like he could get there.

All of this doesn't really matter though since we have virtually no gamebreakers around whoever plays and a system that is clearly far from working. Considering that with our defense, the offense needs to score at least in the 40's to give us a chance it is all hopeless no matter who plays.

Not that I totally disagree with your assertions, but how can you say "what Wood has wrong are things that can be fixed with coaching and playing time"? You have seen him play in a grand total of a few games and he has been awful. No spin there either, he looked awful on Saturday.

The coaches saw him on the scout team all last year. They also saw him take a LOT of reps in spring practice. I heard from more than one person (people I really trust and know what they are talking about) that there have always been questions about whether Wood can withstand the pressure of being a QB at the BCS level.

Not one QB who has played for us this season has impressed me. Quibbling about whether a redshirt sophomore needs more time to develop pretty much says it all.

 

[MtnBuff]

Not that I totally disagree with your assertions, but how can you say "what Wood has wrong are things that can be fixed with coaching and playing time"? You have seen him play in a grand total of a few games and he has been awful. No spin there either, he looked awful on Saturday.

The coaches saw him on the scout team all last year. They also saw him take a LOT of reps in spring practice. I heard from more than one person (people I really trust and know what they are talking about) that there have always been questions about whether Wood can withstand the pressure of being a QB at the BCS level.

Not one QB who has played for us this season has impressed me. Quibbling about whether a redshirt sophomore needs more time to develop pretty much says it all.

Wood may have a problem handling the mental end of things under fire, you can't know that usually until a guy has had a fair shot at playing. We know absolutely that despite all his impressing the coaches in practice that Webb doesn't handle game pressure well, I have seen Hirsch fall apart as well.

My only assertion is that we know fully that Webb isn't going to get better. He has had plenty of opportunities both here and a KU. He also isn't going to magically grow a strong enough arm to play at this level or develop the other physical characteristics.

Wood does have the physical characteristics. He is big, strong, relatively fast, and has a strong enough arm. At this point based on the stubborness exihibet in sticking with Webb I don't trust any assessment made by our coaches.

You are right in that none of the QBs has done anything to deserve positive note. My only statement is that if you have a guy who has the potential to be decent and a guy that doesn't it is stupid to put your time and effort into the one who doesn't then blame the guy who does but didn't get the in season reps when he isn't sharp.

 

[White_Rabbit]

I think it's about time to give up on Wood at this juncture. I haven't agreed with how the coaches stuck with Webb over him and Hirschman, but next year it'll be all about Dillon/Liufau.

 

[CUwhit21]

I think it's about time to give up on Wood at this juncture. I haven't agreed with how the coaches stuck with Webb over him and Hirschman, but next year it'll be all about Dillon/Liufau.

Wood looked really bad last week. Hirschman has looked the best if he's given a scheme that fits his skillset & he's not trotted out there to run read option. I'm not convinced Dillon or Liufau are the answer either. Bottom line - None of these guys will look great without a better coaching staff.

 

[CUwhit21]

It does beg the question, though. How much better would the team be if Embree would have focused on coaching to what he had and coordinating to what he had instead of spending so much effort on forcing guys out?

Turns out that after all the time spent on Burnett, Webb and Wood (when Hirschman was better)... all the time spent recruiting Dorman (when Sherry was better + more highly rated & they had Schrock as a walk-on in their back pocket)... was wasted time, effort and recruiting budget.

So it forces me to wonder what other positions have had this problem? Maybe our defense would be better if we had Forrest West and Liloa Nobriga right now? Maybe our offense would be better if we had Will Jefferson at WR right now?

Did the irrational hatred that Embree and other Buffs4Lifers had for Dan Hawkins and anything associated with him cause unfair treatment of players and bad decisions that significantly set back this program?

Food for thought.

I'm on board with this. The QB, RB and WR positions were badly mishandled in their first class & this is the result. No one ready to step in after Hansen, Stewart and Clemons graduated. We waited far too long to hire WR and QB coaches and Bieniemy should've left the Vikings the minute he was hired.

The only explanation for the defense is just total incompetence. Basic fundamentals, discipline and confidence are completely gone.

 

[White_Rabbit]

Wood looked really bad last week. Hirschman has looked the best if he's given a scheme that fits his skillset & he's not trotted out there to run read option. I'm not convinced Dillon or Liufau are the answer either. Bottom line - None of these guys will look great without a better coaching staff.

I'm not convinced they're the answer next year either. I think they'll both be quite an upgrade over what we have now, but depending on freshman doesn't work out well usually.

 

[Idot Buff]

I'm not convinced they're the answer next year either. I think they'll both be quite an upgrade over what we have now, but depending on any Buff QB dating back to 2001 doesn't work out well usually.

Fify