SECOBuffsFan
Active Member
http://espn.go.com/ncb/notebook/_/page/top50coaches50-25/top-50-coaches
Not too bad....does he deserve higher or lower?
Not too bad....does he deserve higher or lower?
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Boyle ranked #34 in Top 50 College Coaches
- Thread starter SECOBuffsFan
- Start date
Should be Top 10. Anyone who can take a perennial average to poor program and go to the Dance 2 years in a row and win a conference championship in a few short years deserves to be called a miracle worker. And when you look at what he did at UNC, anything less than Top 10 is a joke.
SECOBuffsFan
Active Member
Tim Miles and Lon Kruger being ahead of him I do not agree with in early take
FIFY
cubuffs85
Active Member
I'm sure many think he should be higher and I'm sure you can find coaches he's "better" than to justify that. My initial reaction is it sounds about right and that's very high praise for someone who only has won ONE NCAA Tourney game (Tim Miles has none, so there's someone who could be arguably lower but he's turned around TWO programs -- he gets more credit for turning around CSU than Tad does with UNC). He has only been coaching a major program for four years after all, lots of room for growth.
cubuffs85
Active Member
You have to be kidding with top 10. First off, Bzdelik helped lay the groundwork, if he would've started when Bz did, he wouldn't have made it in year 2 (even if he really should've made it in year 1).
Also, how do you justify someone with ONE Tourney win in your top 10?
Keep in mind that making the dance for a given year puts you in the top 68. Making it three years in a row, would be what, top 45-ish? I would go with twice that high (Top 25) for the degree of difficulty based on long term history as noted.
cubuffs85
Active Member
Would you put him above everyone listed including Dixon (who killed us), Larranaga, and Huggins?
You must be kidding. Off the top of my head: Sean Miller, Coach K, Bill Self, Roy Williams, Billy Donovan, Rick Pitino, Jim Boeheim, Tom Izzo, Bo Ryan, Jim Beilein, Thad Matta, Kevin Ollie, John Calipari. I'd like to hear your argument for putting Tad ahead of any of these guys. Boyle has done a very good job here. He isn't, at this point, a top 10 head coach. Maybe you could make an argument for top 25.
SECOBuffsFan
Active Member
You look behind Tad and there are some questions as well...Tubby Smith at 39 and Tom Crean not ranked.
cubuffs85
Active Member
Agreed here. It's really not a debate. Outside of the state of Colorado (and really within it), you'd be laughed at the room if you said Boyle was one of the best 10 in the nation. And let's put it this way, if that were the case, the bluebloods would be chasing him. You need much more of a resume to get into the Top 10. He's top 25 at best until he gets out of the first weekend.
cubuffs85
Active Member
Crean COULD be in the top 25 (not saying I agree here). He's made a Final Four, just had two recent Sweet 16 appearances after taking over the disaster at Indiana.
Edit: I see the sidebar with the list who missed the top 50.
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SECOBuffsFan
Active Member
If Jamie Dixon is only #25, Boyle is not Top 25
Indiana fans are not in love with Crean.
SECOBuffsFan
Active Member
Indiana fans still consider themselves elite too
#34 seems fair. Very fair. Tad's getting recognized for what he has done: take what was considered a "bad job" and turn the program into a stable, consistent winner that cracks the Top 25 and makes the Dance. To get to the next level, he needs to start signing Top 100 prospects with consistency, continue to make the Dance, and put some Sweet 16-or-better runs on his resume.
What excites me is that I think the "next level" stuff I posted above is exactly what's going to happen. And by the time Tad is seen as a Top 20 college HC, CU will be very well established as a program and also have grown its basketball resources to the next level.
What excites me is that I think the "next level" stuff I posted above is exactly what's going to happen. And by the time Tad is seen as a Top 20 college HC, CU will be very well established as a program and also have grown its basketball resources to the next level.
cubuffs85
Active Member
That will happen at Indiana when you've only made the Tourney twice and haven't made it to a Final Four.
I think I would draw a distinction between "Elite Program" and "College Basketball Royalty". Indiana is not currently an elite program, but they are royalty. And just like when Kentucky and others suffered some mediocre years, Indiana is a place that can quickly return to elite status with the right coach. Heck, Crean had his team favored to win a national championship just a couple years ago as we were entering the final third of the season.
Comparing apples & oranges, I think.
It's way easier to recruit at Kansas, Kentucky or Louisville than Colorado. I'd like to see what Donovan or Williams could do at CU and UNC without the school or coach's name drawing recruits.
The converse is also true...have no idea what Tad could do at a top flight school.
I just look at what Tad has done and he has relied purely on player development and courtside coaching, not "come to _____ and you'll be pro in 1-2 years".
cubuffs85
Active Member
These rankings are the top 50 coaches right now, that's what this exercise is about. Not taking into account the coaches' ages, it's hard to dispute, you wouldn't rather have any of these coaches than Tad at your typical school.
Florida wasn't exactly the Florida we're used to when Billy Donovan took over. Cal built up UMass. Pitino built up Providence. Bill Self built up a few programs as well. So we've seen what these coaches can at lesser programs, we haven't seen what Boyle can do at an elite program.
You're going down the wrong path if you're going to question the college coaching chops of Donovan and Williams.
It's definitely a different type of situation when coaching at an elite program.
Kind of like the NBA coaching hierarchy. It's a different personality that can motivate the elite players and their egos. Much respect to Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, Greg Popovich and Red Auerbach. But then we can look at a guy Larry Brown and what he has done over his career at more difficult spots and a lack of elite rosters. Depending on the criteria, I could say that Brown is the best of them all or I could go with Phil. All belong on the Mt. Rushmore.
In college, Donovan and Williams are on that current Mt. Rushmore. Boyle is not.
I see your point. I don't have strong opinions on this...Boyle could well deserve where he is on this list. I guess once Boyle starts winning bigger...Final Four etc...he'd be top 10. My preference is always with coaches who turnaround bad programs than those who coach at elite programs.
CUFan
Welcome back
Boyle is a bit of a victim of his own success when it comes to my expectations. He raised the bar. I now expect him to bring in more elite recruits and expect more success on the court than I ever did even a year or two ago. I have to tell myself to temper my expectations on a regular basis.
With the above written, 34 seems more than fair to me at this point.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
With the above written, 34 seems more than fair to me at this point.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
You have to remember that most coaches at elite programs turned some program around at some point in time.
cubuffs85
Active Member
It's hard for Tad to crack the top 10 of the best current coaches. I still think you are undervaluing what many of those coaches have accomplished at lesser situations.
cubuffs85
Active Member
Once again, spot on. Like any other profession, you usually work your way up. They aren't just going to hand you the keys to the Kentucky basketball program without seeing how you've done in a lesser situation.