Buffs Basketball History & Where Tad Boyle Fits

[BuffG]

Tad Boyle is the best coach we've had in 45 years. The media and some around here would lead you to believe he is the most successful Buffs basketball coach ever. This is a reminder that he is not even the 2nd most successful coach in Colorado Basketball history.

1. Frosty Cox

1938 NIT Final - Frosty had the Buffs in the 1st ever National Championship game for college basketball which preceded the NCAA Tournament's incarnation by 1 year.

1940 NIT Champs - At this time it was debatable whether the NIT or NCAA tournament was more prestigious. Some schools (we don't) claim national titles from this era based solely on being NIT champs. Colorado & Duquesne were the 1st schools to play the NIT & NCAA tourney in the same year.

1942 NCAA Title game - Lost to Stanford in the final. 2nd place was our best ever finish in the NCAA tournament

Cox had 4 All-Americans during his time with CU. This is unquestionably our Golden Era.

2. H.B. Lee & Sox Walseth

These two are debatable. Lee turned around the program & led the Buffs to the 1955 Final Four & two Big 7 conference titles. Walseth won three Big 8 conference titles, took us to 3 NCAA Tourneys & reached the 2nd rd twice in the NCAA. Walseth is also the longest tenured CU men's coach with 20 years.


I'm as grateful as anyone for Tad Boyle bringing the program back to relevance but, it seems his stature within Buffs Basketball history is exaggerated to the extent that we ignore the championships, the Final Four's, and the trailblazing that most basketball programs are without.

 

[TDforTD]

Basketball back then was barely basketball.

It's 2016, it's a little over a bijillion times harder to recruit and coach in this era. This run we've had with Boyle definitely deserves to be in the conversation for most successful stretch in school history, even if we aren't going on magical tourney runs every year.

I'm all for giving shoutouts to the guys who helped build the foundation, especially when they had great success for the time, but this is a silly comparison.

 

[BuffG]

Basketball back then was barely basketball.

It's 2016, it's a little over a bijillion times harder to recruit and coach in this era. This run we've had with Boyle definitely deserves to be in the conversation for most successful stretch in school history, even if we aren't going on magical tourney runs every year.

This is the exaggeration I'm talking about. We would rather ignore past triumphs unlike other schools who pump up their success from that same era & built something from it.

Obviously, it's harder now to compete. You could make that argument for literally everything in the world. It doesn't mean Tad Boyle gets graded on a curve & just making the tourney now is a greater accomplishment than winning titles & Final Fours in any era.

 

[FLounder]

How are we not talking about naming our court or arena Frosty Cox Court.


Biggest missed opportunity by CU in ages imo.

 

[TDforTD]

This is what professional basketball looked like in the 1940s:

Dudes just dribbling around in protective bubbles, hoisting up terrible jumpshots. The mid-court line had just been introduced, and there wasn't a shot clock for another 10+ years. It was an ugly sport lol.

Basketball has progressed so much just since the 90s, it's incredible. The amount of film study alone is enough of a difference that I don't see a problem saying Boyle has put up the best 5 year stretch in the school's basketball history.

 

[SBG]

How are we not talking about naming our court or arena Frosty Cox Court.


Biggest missed opportunity by CU in ages imo.

Just when I thought you couldn't do anything dumber....



You go and say this and totally redeem yourself!

 

[BuffG]

This is what professional basketball looked like in the 1940s:

Dudes just dribbling around in protective bubbles, hoisting up terrible jumpshots. The mid-court line had just been introduced, and there wasn't a shot clock for another 10+ years. It was an ugly sport lol.

Basketball has progressed so much just since the 90s, it's incredible. The amount of film study alone is enough of a difference that I don't see a problem saying Boyle has put up the best 5 year stretch in the school's basketball history.

No team will ever win 10 titles in 11 years because the game is more competitive. That doesn't stop anyone from considering John Wooden as anything less than the greatest college hoops coach of all time.

Everything in the world is more competitive now. It's called evolution. 50 years from now, people will be looking down at us the same way you're looking down at people 50 years ago.

 

[CVilleBuff]

Certainly easier to pick up more wins now due to playing many more games. 20 wins is still a bar of being very solid, but it's not what it was.

Certainly much more difficult to win titles of any sort. Not only are there the power conferences, but non-traditional teams and conferences continue to get better and better.

 

[Buffnik]

I think those historical marks are nice and something the program should celebrate. CU could do a lot more to celebrate & promote its tradition. Most fans know Chauncey, Tad's teams and assume a load of crap fills the rest. But I'd also say that 60+ years ago doesn't mean much today.

 

[aghcsm]

So the debate is partly about what's considered success. Tad Boyle has the highest winning percentage of any MBB coach at CU, if we ignore Melbourne Evans' 9-2 record in his sole season, 1918. I expect many Buff fans (myself included) would far prefer a single NCAA title over many years of winning at a record pace. This would give Frosty the edge. And coming close (final four) would be much preferred IMO to winning percentage as well, thus the advantage to Lee.

Given the limited success of Tad in postseason and the rather poor quality of OOC competition in the modern era, it's a little hard to put Tad on top of the list. Best in last 50 years, one of top 4 or 5 all time, and great to have on our side in 2016 and hopefully beyond.

 

[SBG]

I think those historical marks are nice and something the program should celebrate. CU could do a lot more to celebrate & promote its tradition. Most fans know Chauncey, Tad's teams and assume a load of crap fills the rest. But I'd also say that 60+ years ago doesn't mean much today.

Minnesota has a lot of MNC in football from that era. History and prestige aren't always the same thing.

CU had some good teams. They had some spurts here and there too. My dad is 79 years old and would have been 4 years old when those teams were good.

A throwback jersey game might be a good idea though.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

Pretty sure that lone NCAA Title was back before the NCAA tournament was the one you wanted to be in. If I remember my basketball history correctly the NIT was the big tournament back in the 40's

 

[aghcsm]

Pretty sure that lone NCAA Title was back before the NCAA tournament was the one you wanted to be in. If I remember my basketball history correctly the NIT was the big tournament back in the 40's

And the Buffs reportedly won the NIT in 1940. I read this, wasn't around to witness it.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

And the Buffs reportedly won the NIT in 1940. I read this, wasn't around to witness it.

Believe you are right. My point was more towards the fact that times have changed drastically since back then. There were only 6 teams in the NIT at that point.

 

[absinthe]

How are we not talking about naming our court or arena Frosty Cox Court.


Biggest missed opportunity by CU in ages imo.

this is the best post you have ever made.

 

[absinthe]

Pretty sure that lone NCAA Title was back before the NCAA tournament was the one you wanted to be in. If I remember my basketball history correctly the NIT was the big tournament back in the 40's

This is true the prestige of the 2 tourneys were flip-flopped back then - so NIT is what you wanted.

We actually were invited to both and chose the NIT one year. The fact we won an NIT back then is a big deal, however as it was pointed out somewhere else it was against a very small field (6 teams), and somewhat suspect levels of overall competition. Also our record of 3 NCAA Elite 8 appearances in the 40's loses a little luster when you realize it was the second choice tourney and there were only 8 teams in the field.

The converse could also be argued of course that in being selected to such a small field of teams the achievement is much greater than being selected to a field of 68

 

[NBDefektor]

The only thing I am taking away from this thread is that we had a coach named FROSTY COX.

 

[dyemeduke]

this is the best post you have ever made.

I completely agree with you, but at the same time, disagree with Flounder. I completely agree that CU could do a better job of celebrating our athletic history, and this isn't just for basketball. Our football history pre-Mac (and even outside of Crowder) is not recognized for the most part, neither is our basketball program, or...well...a lot of programs. So, to restate the OP and what Buffnik said earlier, we can do a lot more to celebrate our basketball history. However, I do think our general society has become one where we are quick to lionize achievements with grand displays. If anyone should have their court named after them, sure, name it after Frosty. However, personally, I don't put Frosty in the category of the all time greats. Rupp, Wooden, Smith, K, Izzo, Olson, etc., make up a first tier of college bball coaches. Then there's a second top tier, and the coaches in it had a large impact on the school to justify any court naming (e.g. Gene Keady) I am NOT anywhere close to being able to remember bball from the old days, so perhaps I'm not respecting bball pre-50s enough...but I wouldn't name the court for anyone just yet. Frosty does not fit either of those top two categories in my opinion.

"Yet", because I do think that if Tad stays here for another 15 years or so with similar and improved success (throw in a couple S16s and E8s, and maybe...just maybe...a FF or better), name the court after him. He'll be by far the winningest coach in our program, he'll have put us solidly in the national radar, and built a great foundation for his successor to continue building on.

But I get ahead of myself - I think the OP is very fair.

 

[Buffnik]

How are we not talking about naming our court or arena Frosty Cox Court.


Biggest missed opportunity by CU in ages imo.

I think there should be a dedication (with statue and signage) designating the area the students have to line up in the cold to enter the CEC as "Frosty Cox Memorial C-Unit Entrance".

P.S. If I was AD, this would have already happened.

 

[Goose]

I completely agree with you, but at the same time, disagree with Flounder.

Great post, but you missed the point.

Say his name out loud.

 

[jsmilkst]

I think there should be a dedication (with statue and signage) designating the area the students have to line up in the cold to enter the CEC as "Frosty Cox Memorial C-Unit Entrance".

P.S. If I was AD, this would have already happened.

Stand outside on a cold day, and touch Frosty Cox. I bet we get 100 extra students per game just for that opportunity.

 

[dyemeduke]

Great post, but you missed the point.

Say his name out loud.

...thanks... ...dammit... ....