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Cheating, is it going on in the P-12?

It's all true and probably sugar coats it.

When you hear a lot of coaches and media folks say about a coach, "He does it the right way"... this is what it's code for. The ones who actually fit with that are rare in this profession. The programs that allow a coach to "do it the right way" and are patient with the time it takes to build that way are even more rare.
 
I have no doubt that there are coaches and programs in the PAC that cheat. We have some known cheaters as basketball coaches and if a school is willing to cheat in basketball you know that the money in football is much bigger.

I also as fairly sure that the amount of cheating in the PAC is much less than in some leagues like the SEC or the B12. Those leagues have schools with long records of cheating and boosters who are willing to fund it and expect it to happen.

Again history is a good indicator. Look at the former SWC schools, that was the cheatingest conference to ever exist. Based on Baylor's attitude toward major felonies is there any question that they are willing to use financial incentives to get kids to come to school there or academic manipulation to keep those same kids eligible.

Plenty of SEC schools have long and frequent histories of cheating as well. Cars and trailer homes along with piles of cash have long been a way of doing business down there.

In the PAC the money is to big not to have some cheating going on but I don't think it matches other places. Other than USC's incidents with Reggie Bush and OJ Mayo who in the PAC has a notorious history of significant cheating. I'm not talking about free lunches and winter coats but rather piles of cash and credit for not going to class. Nobody in the league can compare to those schools in the south.
 
dio said:
Graham? Petersen? Leach? Dykes?

Absolutely happening in Pac
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Graham leach and dykes i totally get as cheaters. Mora wouldnt surprise me either. But chris petersen being a cheater would surprise me. Am i missing something?
 
Big Jim said:
John Wooden's national championship teams were bought and paid for. Nothing should be shocking on this front.
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Really ... do you have any reliable sources to support that assertion? Or are you merely blowing crap out of your ass? I strongly suspect the latter.
 
Big Jim said:
Sam Gilbert
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Well thank you for providing such penetrating detail. But upon searching that name, I found this:

Gilbert's influence ultimately helped land UCLA basketball on NCAA probation. In December 1981, UCLA was cited for nine infractions and received two years' probation, which included a one-year NCAA tournament ban and an order to vacate its 1980 NCAA national title game appearance against Louisville.

The most serious allegation levied against Gilbert was that he co-signed a promissory note so a player could buy a car. The NCAA ordered UCLA to disassociate Gilbert from its recruiting process.

Larry Brown was UCLA's basketball coach in 1980; none of the violations were tied to Wooden's era.
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So maybe John Wooden didn't bother worrying about whether or not his players were "advice" from a booster, and maybe a favor here and there, and he should have, which he admitted after the fact. But it seems to me a stretch to assert that Wooden's championships were "bought and paid for," since there's no indication that Gilbert paid money to prospects during the recruiting process or lavished them with extravagant gifts or loads of money.

If the worst thing the NCAA came up with was that Gilbert co-signed a car loan for a player, which is no doubt a proscribed "extra benefit" under NCAA by-laws, that's hardly a scathing indictment, assuming the player paid off the loan. And even that happened under Larry Brown (which should not surprise anyone), not John Wooden.
 
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L Buff said:
Well thank you for providing such penetrating detail. But upon searching that name, I found this:

So maybe John Wooden didn't bother worrying about whether or not his players were "advice" from a booster, and maybe a favor here and there, and he should have, which he admitted after the fact. But it seems to me a stretch to assert that Wooden's championships were "bought and paid for," since there's no indication that Gilbert paid money to prospects during the recruiting process or lavished them with extravagant gifts or loads of money.

If the worst thing the NCAA came up with was that Gilbert co-signed a car loan for a player, which is no doubt a proscribed "extra benefit" under NCAA by-laws, that's hardly a scathing indictment, assuming the player paid off the loan. And even that happened under Larry Brown (which should not surprise anyone), not John Wooden.
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UCLA fans that are older than 30 know all about Sam Gilbert being a financial benefactor to Lew Alcindor, Bill Walton, Sidney Wicks and others during the Wooden era. Even UCLA fans own up to it as much as they would like to play ostrich. You can talk yourself into anything you want to, but that doesn't change history.
 
It probably happens everywhere to a certain extent. I mean 5 years ago would most folks have pegged North Carolina as being associated with years of major academic fraud for athletes? Fraud which actually almost sounds tame compared to the allegations that just came up for Mizzou.
 
SuperD said:
It probably happens everywhere to a certain extent. I mean 5 years ago would most folks have pegged North Carolina as being associated with years of major academic fraud for athletes? Fraud which actually almost sounds tame compared to the allegations that just came up for Mizzou.
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UNC? No doubt I would have expected them.
 
If I had to put money on it, wouldn't be surprised if ucla/ASU/u of a were involved in some way shape or form. It's always very questionable to see teams that perform great unceremoniously just fall apart. Seems like coaching staffs that are juggling a lot of things taking focus from the field.
 
I would say the most likely cheaters are Oregon, UCLA, USC and ASU. The least likely are Stanford, Utah and Colorado.
 
With how stupid some of the rules are, some teams probably cheat and don't even know it. Some compliance people don't do their jobs very well. That or they are told not to lol.
 
Now in 20 years someone may drop a bombshell and surprise everyone, but from what I see we are so lucky to have a person of MM's character leading CU's rise from obscurity. I am sure it is a lot easier and faster to rebuild a program when you play outside the rules, but I couldn't imagine him allowing any of this bs to be going on here. It is also one reason I think we will be lucky enough to have him around for a while, because I am sure he has no desire to move to a program where cheating like this is standard operating procedure, regardless of how much he is offered or how high powered the program. I am sure he knows at many programs you either cheat and produce, or go looking for another job in a short time.
 
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