Chuck Klosterman's 50 greatest college hoopsters

[Mick Ronson]

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7185970/view/full/the-50-greatest-college-basketball-players-all-time

i like any list that has Fennis Dembo and Sleepy Floyd. kind of arbitrary, overall. Tyler Hansborough? really?

am i the only one who saw Blake Griffin embarrass him routinely in an Elite 8 game UNC won by double digits, even.

no Larry Johnson? seriously, the best college player i've seen. maybe Tisdale or Manning is close but i'm Big 8 homering a bit there.

 

[CVilleBuff]

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7185970/view/full/the-50-greatest-college-basketball-players-all-time

i like any list that has Fennis Dembo and Sleepy Floyd. kind of arbitrary, overall. Tyler Hansborough? really?

am i the only one who saw Blake Griffin embarrass him routinely in an Elite 8 game UNC won by double digits, even.

no Larry Johnson? seriously, the best college player i've seen. maybe Tisdale or Manning is close but i'm Big 8 homering a bit there.

Pretty heavy on the recents, like most of these lists are. Gerry McNamara? Juan Dixon? Hansbrough? No.

 

[Mick Ronson]

Pretty heavy on the recents, like most of these lists are. Gerry McNamara? Juan Dixon? Hansbrough? No.

seriously. it's always the fabulous nowtime. you know who belongs on this list: Jeff Grayer. Grayer avg like 26 a game for Johnny Orr on some really good ISU teams that were unbeatable in Ames, all-time single season Big 8 scorer in the Manning/Tisdale era. that guy could shoot the rock. i remember going to a game at the CEC with my dad, i don't think Grayer ever hit anything but net. it was stupid.

i liked Dixon as a college player...not as smooth as Steve Francis, though. the best player on that Terp team to me was always Lonny Baxter. nice low post moves in an era where being 6' 6" doesn't get you an NBA career.

 

[Buffnik]

You've definitely got Big 8 bias, Mick. :smile2:

As I read it, I was thinking of a lot of Big East guys who should have made it from the era I grew up with.

Top 50 is a very exclusive club. Where I think he missed the most was with saying that college career had to be more memorable than the pro. That leaves a guy like Bill Russell off the list, which is criminal.

 

[dyemeduke]

What an absolutely ridiculous list...

... ...wow...I'm a huge Duke guy, but Reddick doesn't belong that high, nor do so many of these players, if they even belong at all. Juan Dixon? Jerome Lang? Top 50 OF ALL TIME! ...this list is horrible - ludricrous - illogical...for shame. NO Ewing, but you have Sleep Floyd and Michael Graham? No Hakeem (to be fair, I wouldn't have (H)Akeem either), no Grant Hill...

... ...

 

[Mick Ronson]

You've definitely got Big 8 bias, Mick. :smile2:
.

maybe. i saw Tisdale, Manning, Blaylock, Grayer in person. those guys could really play. the best college player i ever maybe saw outside Manning or Tisdale was Kenyon Martin. that Cincy team with him was stupid good. i don't think there is any way MIchigan State (eventual NC winner and i love Izzo) could beat that team if Martin doesn't break his leg in the BE Tourney.

Big East players: Pat Ewing, for sure.

i may be a Big 8 homer, but the Big 8 was sending 5 teams to the NCAA inna day. that's over half the league, a % that would make today's ESPN Big East toadies cream.

 

[Mick Ronson]

you know who else i put on this Big 8 home list: Jon Sunvold.

if there was a 3 point line in his day, that guy was sick.

invented the pure jump shot.

 

[Buffnik]

maybe. i saw Tisdale, Manning, Blaylock, Grayer in person. those guys could really play. the best college player i ever maybe saw outside Manning or Tisdale was Kenyon Martin. that Cincy team with him was stupid good. i don't think there is any way MIchigan State (eventual NC winner and i love Izzo) could beat that team if Martin doesn't break his leg in the BE Tourney.

Big East players: Pat Ewing, for sure.

i may be a Big 8 homer, but the Big 8 was sending 5 teams to the NCAA inna day. that's over half the league, a % that would make today's ESPN Big East toadies cream.

It's easier to make the tourney when there are fewer teams in your league. Same reason the SEC is resisting the push toward 9 conference games in football.

 

[Mick Ronson]

It's easier to make the tourney when there are fewer teams in your league. Same reason the SEC is resisting the push toward 9 conference games in football.

my point is this: in the mid 80's, Kansas State, ISU, OU, Kansas, Missouri were great teams. Norm Stewart, Billy Tubbs, Johnny Orr, Lon Kruger, Larry Brown,,,,sadly for us, we sucked. but, the Big 8 was a real basketball conference that had been crap in the 70's. we won a lot of home games back then, it was tough to win on the road...and CU didn't much with Bill Blair (underrated), Tom Miller and Joe Harrington.

 

[Buffnik]

my point is this: in the mid 80's, Kansas State, ISU, OU, Kansas, Missouri were great teams. Norm Stewart, Billy Tubbs, Johnny Orr, Lon Kruger, Larry Brown,,,,sadly for us, we sucked. but, the Big 8 was a real basketball conference that had been crap in the 70's. we won a lot of home games back then, it was tough to win on the road...and CU didn't much with Bill Blair (underrated), Tom Miller and Joe Harrington.

I don't disagree with it being good basketball. But where are the championships? If we're talking about the 80s, there weren't even that many Final Four teams. You had KU and OU in '88 and KU made an appearance in '86. That's it.

Big East Final Four teams in the 80s:

Seton Hall (1)
Providence (1)
St. John's (1)
Syracuse (1)
Villanova (1)
Georgetown (3)

That's a 9-team league that put 6 teams into Final Fours. The 3 that didn't make it: Boston College, Connecticut and Pittsburgh which were all good basketball schools.

 

[CVilleBuff]

I admit to being biased, and it's tough competition ahead of him, but Ralph Sampson was a ****ing beast. At least they got that right and didn't put Shelden Williams there or some ****.

 

[CVilleBuff]

seriously. it's always the fabulous nowtime. you know who belongs on this list: Jeff Grayer. Grayer avg like 26 a game for Johnny Orr on some really good ISU teams that were unbeatable in Ames, all-time single season Big 8 scorer in the Manning/Tisdale era. that guy could shoot the rock. i remember going to a game at the CEC with my dad, i don't think Grayer ever hit anything but net. it was stupid.

i liked Dixon as a college player...not as smooth as Steve Francis, though. the best player on that Terp team to me was always Lonny Baxter. nice low post moves in an era where being 6' 6" doesn't get you an NBA career.

That was a hell of a team. Baxter, Dixon, Terence Morris was solid, Steve Blake was a damn good point guard in college, Chris Wilcox. Maryland annoys me, but I always respected Gary Williams. It was time, however

 

[torero]

You guys complaining missed the point of the exercise. Klosterman always loves to look at things from a different perspective than the general consensus, and one of his criteria for this list was that the players impact had to be more important at the collegiate level. He also explicitly says that it is biased to those who he had more personal experience with, its a personal list. I loved it.

 

[Johnny Juzang]

Mitch Richmond!

 

[Buffnik]

You guys complaining missed the point of the exercise. Klosterman always loves to look at things from a different perspective than the general consensus, and one of his criteria for this list was that the players impact had to be more important at the collegiate level. He also explicitly says that it is biased to those who he had more personal experience with, its a personal list. I loved it.

No, we just didn't like the exercise. :smile2:

I said that I didn't like the criteria.

 

[BuffNut99]

He's such a good writer, you find yourself agreeing with alot of his reaches, given the premise of the list.

Chris Jackson (Mahmoud...) should be higher, he was the best pure shooter I've ever seen in college.

 

[62-36]

I know how easy it can be to examine a list without reading the criteria, but this isn't a list of the 50 best guys to play college basketball. It's a list of the 50 best "college basketball players" which he describes as guys that are considered first and foremost COLLEGE players (i.e. not as well known/admired/respected for their pro career as for their college career).

That's why there's no Larry Johnson, Bill Russell, Hakeem, Grant Hill, etc.

 

[RK]

I know how easy it can be to examine a list without reading the criteria, but this isn't a list of the 50 best guys to play college basketball. It's a list of the 50 best "college basketball players" which he describes as guys that are considered first and foremost COLLEGE players (i.e. not as well known/admired/respected for their pro career as for their college career).

That's why there's no Larry Johnson, Bill Russell, Hakeem, Grant Hill, etc.

Thats why he could get away with Lew Alcindor as #1. Cause he claimed him and Kareem as two different people.

 

[Hoops Fan]

I my opinion they clearly missed a guy who should be high on this list ... Bill Bradly of Princeton. He lead his team to become a powerhouse during his era and literally carried them on his back to the NCAA final four in his senior year. In watching college hoops for more than 50 years, I have never seen a player who did as much for his team.

 

[dyemeduke]

I know how easy it can be to examine a list without reading the criteria, but this isn't a list of the 50 best guys to play college basketball. It's a list of the 50 best "college basketball players" which he describes as guys that are considered first and foremost COLLEGE players (i.e. not as well known/admired/respected for their pro career as for their college career).

That's why there's no Larry Johnson, Bill Russell, Hakeem, Grant Hill, etc.

?!?! LJ AND Hill were GREAT college players. Russell and Hakeem too, but I too wouldn't have them on the list; however, they were better college players than some of the players on this list. LJ and Hill are all time greats in the college game.

Great call on Bill Bradley Hoops Fan. Very nice.

 

[62-36]

?!?! LJ AND Hill were GREAT college players. Russell and Hakeem too, but I too wouldn't have them on the list; however, they were better college players than some of the players on this list. LJ and Hill are all time greats in the college game.

Great call on Bill Bradley Hoops Fan. Very nice.

I think you should re-read what you replied to.

 

[dyemeduke]

I think you should re-read what you replied to.

...okay...

Are you seriously going to argue that LJ and Hill did NOT have much better COLLEGE careers than players on the Klosterman's list? I can agree that Russel and Olajuwon were great college players, but not top 50. LJ and Hill however were. If you're referring to Klosterman's statement that these players needed to have their peaks in college, or be remembered primarily as a college player...than LJ and Hill still deserve to be on the list, especially LJ. Make your argument

 

[Creebuzz]

Patrick Ewing was the best collegiate basketball player in the modern era. He played in the NCAA championship game 3 out of his 4 years, but he's not on the list? Yet Michael Graham makes it??? This guy had one nice run in the tourney primarily due to the fact that teams collapsed on Ewing leaving him wide open for put back dunks. Hell, I'd put Reggie Williams, Dikembe and Zo on the list before crappy dirt bag Graham, who Coach Thompson booted off the team for basically being an a hole.

On a side note, my father is a Georgetown grad and he used to take me to the Yates Center when I was a kid. I once got to shoot a few baskets with Sleepy Floyd when I was a 10 years old. still got his autograph somewhere.

 

[torero]

...okay...

Are you seriously going to argue that LJ and Hill did NOT have much better COLLEGE careers than players on the Klosterman's list? I can agree that Russel and Olajuwon were great college players, but not top 50. LJ and Hill however were. If you're referring to Klosterman's statement that these players needed to have their peaks in college, or be remembered primarily as a college player...than LJ and Hill still deserve to be on the list, especially LJ. Make your argument

I'll try to make an argument for LJ, I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, but where difference thoughts could be. When I think of LJ, I think of grandmama, and those Charlotte teams with Zo. Probably has more to do with the fact that I was probably a little too young to really follow those UNLV teams, but I definitely have fond memories of him being on those entertaining hornets teams.

 

[62-36]

...okay...

Are you seriously going to argue that LJ and Hill did NOT have much better COLLEGE careers than players on the Klosterman's list? I can agree that Russel and Olajuwon were great college players, but not top 50. LJ and Hill however were. If you're referring to Klosterman's statement that these players needed to have their peaks in college, or be remembered primarily as a college player...than LJ and Hill still deserve to be on the list, especially LJ. Make your argument

I'm not saying you're wrong in that LJ was a better college player than a pro, but I think this list is focused more on the overall perception of said player. You can ask any casual fan if they know who Larry Johnson is and chances are they'll say yes. But I'd bet most of those people could tell you what team he played for as a pro before what team he played for in college.

 

[Buffnik]

Did he put Corliss Williamson on the list?

That guy was incredible for Arkansas' national title run.

 

[dyemeduke]

Big Nasty was not on the list, and as great as he was that year, I also wouldn't put him on a list of top 50 of all time.

As for LJ - sorry, I have a feeling most BASKETBALL (college AND pro) fans will tie LJ with the Runnin' Rebels. Those teams under Tark are all time great teams that had attitude, swag, and skill...along with NCAA violations later on. That '90 team was one of the best of all time in my opinion. Come on - LJ was the top overall NBA pick based on his college game. He had a great NBA career, but compared to how he dominated college...I (and many sports fans I can think of) conjure up images of UNLV when LJ comes up.

 

[62-36]

Big Nasty was not on the list, and as great as he was that year, I also wouldn't put him on a list of top 50 of all time.

As for LJ - sorry, I have a feeling most BASKETBALL (college AND pro) fans will tie LJ with the Runnin' Rebels. Those teams under Tark are all time great teams that had attitude, swag, and skill...along with NCAA violations later on. That '90 team was one of the best of all time in my opinion. Come on - LJ was the top overall NBA pick based on his college game. He had a great NBA career, but compared to how he dominated college...I (and many sports fans I can think of) conjure up images of UNLV when LJ comes up.

I just asked 10 guys in my office if they knew who Larry Johnson was. All 10 did. 2 of them could tell me what college he went to. All of them remembered Grandmama.

 

[dyemeduke]

I just asked 10 guys in my office if they knew who Larry Johnson was. All 10 did. 2 of them could tell me what college he went to. All of them remembered Grandmama.

well I guess I could be wrong about most people thinking of UNLV... ...but I still stand by argument that LJ was an amazing college player, and had more impact in the college game than as a pro. UNLV is a landmark team, and while Charlotte was great, it was Zo that is their defining moment (last second shot in the playoffs). Knicks are the Knicks, with or without LJ pouring in 3s against Indiana. UNLV though...legendary team with a clear leader - big, bad Larry Johnson (I say this even though I PERSONALLY believe that Greg Anthony was their leader...but LJ was the centerpiece and presumed leader)

 

[Mick Ronson]

Corliss Williamson, like Baxter i mention above. and even guys like USC's Sam Clancy or OU's Aaron McGee....guys who are about 6' 8" at best, with a sackful of low post moves, boards, and can step out to about 15 feet for a shot or take on the dribble. great college players....but, NBA doesn't have that position. great basketball...but no shot in "the League". latter unfortunately is how people judge.

Williamson was dominant on that Hog team, 92?