CU recruiting Staying Power

[buffaholic]

Buffzone article.

I think a lot of us have noticed that the commits all seem to be really good students and citizens. There's clearly a focus on bringing in kids who don't have a lot of risks and seem committed to improvement.

I'm all for this, but he better be finding some raw talent at the same time. Desire, hard work, and smarts isn't enough. If a kid doesn't have the talent to develop, he's no better or worse than the kid who leaves after a year or two.

 

[Duff Man]

Yeah, not sure that article really says anything new.

 

[BlackNGold]

Buffzone article.

I think a lot of us have noticed that the commits all seem to be really good students and citizens. There's clearly a focus on bringing in kids who don't have a lot of risks and seem committed to improvement.

I'm all for this, but he better be finding some raw talent at the same time. Desire, hard work, and smarts isn't enough. If a kid doesn't have the talent to develop, he's no better or worse than the kid who leaves after a year or two.

Isn't this the same stuff we heard with Hawkins?

 

[Highlander]

Isn't this the same stuff we heard with Hawkins?

The difference is that he didn't actually do it - it was all just talk.

 

[Duff Man]

The point is, these fluff articles are great during the honeymoon period. But the wins need to come too. We are not the only school recruiting good kids.

 

[BlackNGold]

The difference is that he didn't actually do it - it was all just talk.

I have to laugh - this quote attributed to MacIntyre - 'Don't worry about the ones we lose. Worry about the ones we get, cause you're going to lose some, but make sure you get the right ones.'- must be part of the Coach Speak lexicon because I must of heard Barnett say it about 20 times.

 

[TimmyDUBs]

This just in: CU trying to recruit guys other programs are overlooking.

 

[pcbuff]

Hawk Talk

Isn't this the same stuff we heard with Hawkins?

Hawk was signing 4*'s. Many have documented that he didn't keep them in the program, but he did get them in the door. It actually feels dirty giving the dove a backhanded compliment.

 

[NW Buff]

I have to laugh - this quote attributed to MacIntyre - 'Don't worry about the ones we lose. Worry about the ones we get, cause you're going to lose some, but make sure you get the right ones.'- must be part of the Coach Speak lexicon because I must of heard Barnett say it about 20 times.

"It's not the recruits you don't get that hurt you. It's the ones you get that don't work out." or something like that was said by Coach McCartney.

I think it's universal coach speak.

 

[Alfred91]

This might be an unpopular sentiment, because I know that it's almost a universal belief that there are spots on the staff that need to be cleared to bring in proven recruiters, but I think a realistic viewpoint has to be that CU is going to lose a lot of recruiting battles because CU has very little to offer vis-a-vis other BCS programs. It sucks, but our facilities are bottom-tier right now and our recent success rate is the worst in school history. The only thing we have to offer is CU and Boulder, which isn't the advantage that it once was. We're not the only school in the Pac-12 that offers a beautiful campus and city and really great school and education. In the Big 12, we were competing with the likes of Ames, Manhattan, Lubbock, College Station and the like. Now we're competing with LA, Seattle, the Bay Area and the like. I still believe it's an advantage and I do think our recruiting can be better, but for the most part, until facilities are built and we can (hopefully) point to an up-and-coming program, we probably are going to have to rely on 'coaching up' kids and finding 'diamonds in the rough'.

I hate that approach, because I do think stars matter, but if we're going to turn this thing around, we're going to have to hope they don't for a few years.

 

[buffaholic]

Yeah, not sure that article really says anything new.

It's the first time I've heard HCMM go on record about it. We've certainly discussed it here.

 

[Duff Man]

It's the first time I've heard HCMM go on record about it. We've certainly discussed it here.

Been pretty obvious for a while now... who cares? Just a coach praising his recruiting class.

 

[slider]

Embree said something similar. Hawkins recruited a bunch of choir boys who didn't truly care about football and didn't have the desire to work at it. So he wouldn't recruit a guy unless he wanted to play in the NFL and truly loved football above all else.

 

[buffaholic]

I assume the he above is Embree.

Hawkins actually recruited a whole bunch of guys who couldn't stay in school. This attrition thing under Hawkins may have been discussed on these very boards.

Embree and Hawkins have had pretty identical attrition I believe.

 

[BlackNGold]

I think CU fans point to attrition too much. It is popular because we need to find a reason for all the losing. Attrition is part of every program and I am not sure CU's attrition has been exceptionally bad. Other programs are bringing in 25 players a year and red shirting most of them - simply math tells you there is attrition.

I do not believe that any amount of vetting can tell you if a kid is going to get homesick or not; or decide he does not like the path he is on; or will get injured. My first semester in college I was so homesick I thought I was going to die (mostly my girl friend was so far away and what was I going to do without her). Christmas break I got dumped - found dating a lot of girls was more fun then going steady and I was not homesick anymore. One of the best students I ever knew (carried a 3.96 in Chemical Engineering) dropped out second semester sophomore year - said he could not take the competitive grind anymore.

People are complex and entering college can be one of the biggest changes of you life - s**t happens.

 

[buffaholic]

Good points. Still, CU's recent 40% plus attrition of students in the first few years is very high.

I saw some numbers the SEC had that showed the worst rates were about 41% and the best around 14% (vanderbilt). A big part of the high numbers were attributed to Chizak over-signing (like 30 guys) and not being to get 7-8 guys qualified.

 

[somebody]

Good points. Still, CU's recent 40% plus attrition of students in the first few years is very high.

I saw some numbers the SEC had that showed the worst rates were about 41% and the best around 14% (vanderbilt). A big part of the high numbers were attributed to Chizak over-signing (like 30 guys) and not being to get 7-8 guys qualified.

FYI, 8/30 is about 27%...

 

[BlackNGold]

Good points. Still, CU's recent 40% plus attrition of students in the first few years is very high.

I saw some numbers the SEC had that showed the worst rates were about 41% and the best around 14% (vanderbilt). A big part of the high numbers were attributed to Chizak over-signing (like 30 guys) and not being to get 7-8 guys qualified.

Part of CU's issues the last few years has been coaching changes which causes attrition any where. But also look at Dorman - most fans wanted him gone because they thought he would never contribute. Now he is gone - is that bad attrition? I am reluctant to include guys that never get into school, but that is just me. Sometimes you take a flyer on a guy who may be marginal to get into school...almost every school does it. I think if you believe in the player and believe he can succeed in school it may not be a bad risk - JJ Flanigan comes to mind.

 

[boydbuff]

I think CU fans point to attrition too much. It is popular because we need to find a reason for all the losing. Attrition is part of every program and I am not sure CU's attrition has been exceptionally bad. Other programs are bringing in 25 players a year and red shirting most of them - simply math tells you there is attrition.

I do not believe that any amount of vetting can tell you if a kid is going to get homesick or not; or decide he does not like the path he is on; or will get injured. My first semester in college I was so homesick I thought I was going to die (mostly my girl friend was so far away and what was I going to do without her). Christmas break I got dumped - found dating a lot of girls was more fun then going steady and I was not homesick anymore. One of the best students I ever knew (carried a 3.96 in Chemical Engineering) dropped out second semester sophomore year - said he could not take the competitive grind anymore.

People are complex and entering college can be one of the biggest changes of you life - s**t happens.

Duff and I debated this last year where he felt I was underestimating the impact of attrition and my "model" assumed attrition to be somewhat evenly distributed across D1/BCS.

I haven't yet found hard stats on it but I did just find this article about from 2012 discussing attrition at Texas:

But there’s a problem: The Horns have since lost 19 of those 45 recruits, the vast majority to transfers. That puts Texas’ attrition rate from the ’09 and ’10 classes at 42 percent, leaving the Longhorns short on experience and depth.Comparatively, the attrition figures at other big name schools aren’t nearly as high.
Of the 54 recruits Alabama signed from 2009 to 2010, only 13 are no longer with the program, an attrition rate of 24 percent. LSU has lost 13 of 53 (25%). Oklahoma has lost 15 of 52 (29%). USC has lost 9 of 36 (25%).
And Kansas State, currently the Big 12's best team? They’ve lost just eight of their 42 signees, a rate of 19%.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/co...e-offered-little-return-for-the-longhorns.ece

 

[MiamiBuffs]

Part of CU's issues the last few years has been coaching changes which causes attrition any where. But also look at Dorman - most fans wanted him gone because they thought he would never contribute. Now he is gone - is that bad attrition? I am reluctant to include guys that never get into school, but that is just me. Sometimes you take a flyer on a guy who may be marginal to get into school...almost every school does it. I think if you believe in the player and believe he can succeed in school it may not be a bad risk - JJ Flanigan comes to mind.

Wasn't Westbrook one of those guys as well? I know he was pissed Michigan didn't recruit him. We all also know, as I personally witnessed after the game, how that turned out. :smile2: