Embree v Hawkins

[Jens1893]

Hawkins 20+ point losses

2006 at OU 3-24
2006 at Nebraska 14-37
2007 at K-State 20-47
2007 Mizzou 10-55
2008 Texas 14-38
2008 at Mizzou 0-58
2009 at Texas 14-38
2010 at Cal 7-52
2010 at Mizzou 0-26
2010 at OU 10-43

10 blowout losses in 58 games as CU HC

Embree 20+ point losses

2011 at Ohio State 17-37
2011 at Stanford 7-48
2011 at Washington 24-52
2011 Oregon 2-45
2011 at Arizona State 14-48
2011 USC 17-42
2011 at UCLA 6-45
2012 at Fresno 14-69
2012 UCLA 14-42
2012 Arizona State 17-51
2012 USC 6-50

11 blowout losses in 20 games as CU HC

 

[BuffUp]

tit for tat

 

[Quattro]

And that number ain't stopping either. What team left can we keep it within 20? Utah?

 

[BuffUp]

1 thing positive about hawkins - we had hope before games of a possible win, embree none. we could always count on the 1 upset each year like wvu,ou...And hawks teams really played some really good teams close Florida St. Georgia, NU... Embree we expect to lose big...and by the way hawk pulled in a couple top 20 recruiting classes

 

[DBT]

Well, Hawkins was going against the Big XII. Embree the PAC XII. I think Embree inherited a pretty tough road to start off on. Hawkins also inherited a little better level of talent than Embree did. Finally, Embree lost 28 seniors coming into this season. I'm not defending Embree as much as arguing that it is tough to compare the two.

 

[sackman]

I can't believe we're even having this discussion. I didn't think I'd ever find a more incompetent coach than Hawkins.

 

[BuffUp]

dbt - remember the cupboard was bare? and burnt to the ground?

 

[Tea Rex]

At least Hawkins didn't get raped as often at home.

 

[Creebuzz]

[h=2]Here is Sports Illustrated's original take on the hire....

[FONT=Arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Jon Embree, Colorado[/FONT][/h][h=3]Grade: D[/h]

Cash-strapped CU, rejected by the likes of Mike Bellotti, decided to reconnect with its past by bringing in former star and assistant Embree, overlooking the fact he's never been even a college offensive coordinator. Nor has his new offensive coordinator, former Buffs star Eric Bienemy. Another CU great, new defensive line coach Kanavis McGhee, most recently coached at Gannon (Pa.) University. Good luck with that.


Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mu....coaching.hires/content.11.html#ixzz29xk4upvj​

 

[BuffUp]

I can't believe we're even having this discussion. I didn't think I'd ever find a more incompetent coach than Hawkins.

I give you embree and eb

 

[Jens1893]

Well, Hawkins was going against the Big XII. Embree the PAC XII. I think Embree inherited a pretty tough road to start off on. Hawkins also inherited a little better level of talent than Embree did. Finally, Embree lost 28 seniors coming into this season. I'm not defending Embree as much as arguing that it is tough to compare the two.

Well, he got blown out in 7 of 13 games last season with those seniors.

You cannot use that argument, DBT.

 

[Unleash Hell]

Hawk at least was somewhat decent at home and still had us in contention for a bowl berth more than halfway through the season most of the time. Hawk>Embree

 

[sackman]

Some revisionist history going on here. Hawk was in contention for a bowl game exactly once. His first season he started out 0-6.

 

[Quattro]

Some revisionist history going on here. Hawk was in contention for a bowl game exactly once. His first season he started out 0-6.

Despite that though things were better under Halk than they are now, as pathetic that is

 

[Jens1893]

Some revisionist history going on here. Hawk was in contention for a bowl game exactly once. His first season he started out 0-6.

Twice, 2007 and 2008.

 

[SBG]

Some revisionist history going on here. Hawk was in contention for a bowl game exactly once. His first season he started out 0-6.

Twice, actually. Had we won that KU game it's likely we would have been going to a bowl. We were up 28 pts going into the 4th!

 

[Unleash Hell]

Twice, 2007 and 2008.

Add in one more 2010, beat KU like we should have and we have a good shot at finishing with 6. So basically 3 out of 5 makes most of the time.

 

[sackman]

Twice, actually. Had we won that KU game it's likely we would have been going to a bowl. We were up 28 pts going into the 4th!

Stop. Right. There.

CU won two games AFTER that with Cabral running things. I wouldn't give Hawkins the benefit of the doubt that he'd win both of those games on his own.

Still, Jens is right, they were in contention in 2008 as well. They just managed to screw that one up, too.

 

[buff4bcs1985]

Stop. Right. There.

CU won two games AFTER that with Cabral running things. I wouldn't give Hawkins the benefit of the doubt that he'd win both of those games on his own.

Still, Jens is right, they were in contention in 2008 as well. They just managed to screw that one up, too.

alex henrey screwed it up not us

 

[SBG]

Stop. Right. There.

CU won two games AFTER that with Cabral running things. I wouldn't give Hawkins the benefit of the doubt that he'd win both of those games on his own.

Still, Jens is right, they were in contention in 2008 as well. They just managed to screw that one up, too.

What's crazy about that game is I wonder if it was a good thing KU beat us. Embree < HaLk.

 

[Unleash Hell]

Stop. Right. There.

CU won two games AFTER that with Cabral running things. I wouldn't give Hawkins the benefit of the doubt that he'd win both of those games on his own.

Still, Jens is right, they were in contention in 2008 as well. They just managed to screw that one up, too.

Doesn't matter, we were still in contention for a bowl

 

[sackman]

Doesn't matter, we were still in contention for a bowl

Not because of Hawkins, we weren't. That's the entire point of this thread.

 

[MtnBuff]

Not going to defend either one of them but they aren't comparable.

Hawkins inherited a bad situation. Barnett had basically quit recruiting Big XII level talent two years earlier so Hawkins inherited a team with no QB and a lack of O-linemen among other problems.

As bad as that was Embree inherited a team filled with guys who were not only not Big XII (or PAC) talent but in many cases not even BCS level below MWC/WAC level players. Again we had a team with no QB, a shortage of OL, a major shortage of DL, and a joke of a defensive backfield.

Even worse for Embree was at least the top two classes that Hawkins inherited had experienced a couple years of Barnett with some expectation of winning games. What Embree inheritted was much worse in that nobody on the team had any clue about what a winning attitude looked like.

Much of the situation we have now can be directly traced to and blamed on Hawkins. At the same time, like it or not, Embree was hired to change that and from all indications he is in the process of failing miserably.

I do think that some things are getting better despite the facts that show up on the scoreboard every week. Embree and staff have improved the talent level of the team. Unfortunately they haven't improved it enough to make up the difference between us and the conference but should we change coaches in the near future I have no question that the new coach will be in better shape talentwise than Embree found it.

What I am most concerned about is the acceptance of losing, the lack of expectations, and the lack of identity that still are contributing to our weekly embarrasing losses. This will be the biggest challenge to any coach in the future trying to turn the program around. At the end of last season I thought we were making progress with winning 2 of the last 3. Our losses OOC killed any progress in that regard that I had though we had made.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

Hawkins 20+ point losses

2006 at OU 3-24
2006 at Nebraska 14-37
2007 at K-State 20-47
2007 Mizzou 10-55
2008 Texas 14-38
2008 at Mizzou 0-58
2009 at Texas 14-38
2010 at Cal 7-52
2010 at Mizzou 0-26
2010 at OU 10-43

10 blowout losses in 58 games as CU HC

Embree 20+ point losses

2011 at Ohio State 17-37
2011 at Stanford 7-48
2011 at Washington 24-52
2011 Oregon 2-45
2011 at Arizona State 14-48
2011 USC 17-42
2011 at UCLA 6-45
2012 at Fresno 14-69
2012 UCLA 14-42
2012 Arizona State 17-51
2012 USC 6-50

11 blowout losses in 20 games as CU HC

Where is Fairbanks versus these two?

 

[Jens1893]

Where is Fairbanks versus these two?

15 in 33

 

[branjohb]

I can't believe we're even having this discussion. I didn't think I'd ever find a more incompetent coach than Hawkins.

You forgetting Embree?

 

[Jens1893]

You forgetting Embree?

The way he worded it means he thinks Embree is worse.

 

[DBT]

Well, he got blown out in 7 of 13 games last season with those seniors.

You cannot use that argument, DBT.

I would submit that the 28 seniors were Hawkins' guys and had pretty much cashed it in. Remember, Embree was very pissed about the attitudes of the players he inherited.

 

[buffs04]

11 20+ point losses in 20 games as a coach. Wow.

 

[Jens1893]

I would submit that the 28 seniors were Hawkins' guys and had pretty much cashed it in. Remember, Embree was very pissed about the attitudes of the players he inherited.

DBT, we´ve been through this before and you´re still not going anywhere with me with that argument.

Most people - me included - were willing to give him a pass for one season, but not two. Heck, several coaches in our conference and division are showing it´s very much possible to win in Year 1 with another coaches´ players right now.

When you say he lost 28 seniors you imply that last season´s team was better and they lost quite a bit, but the facts are we won 3 games last season and were blown out in 7 of our 10 losses. Last season´s team was experienced and senior heavy and sucked, this team is inexperienced and sucks. What is it?

This team is inexperienced but 50%+ of the players were recruited by Jon Embree and Hawk players are in the minority now.

When you use that argument you have to concede that we should have been doing VASTLY better in either 2011 or 2012. You can´t have it both ways. If we lost something, last season was unacceptable, if didn´t, the results are unacceptable.