Ever fired anyone with intent and foreknowledge?

[BuffaloChuck]

For those of us who've fired employees with some forewarning - days, weeks or months, perhaps - there's a good chance that the notion of "replacements" occurred well before the Day Of The Ax.

I have not faulted Bohn & Co one bit for his desired 'trajectory' move. I think it's by far the best action for all involved parties - it gives Bohn a chance to put an alumni coyote on the fence-post and display his "Only good coaches need apply - we'll cut off even favorite sons here - Do Nothing's won't last." And it gives our favorite son a chance to use Righteous Indignation to prevent serious harm from his fledging efforts as an HC.

But I AM surprised that the concept of "replacements" wasn't fully enacted. That there weren't at least smoke blown in certain directions.

I'm against having Bohn get a long-time friend, by the way. Those divorces are really ugly, and this is NOT a friendship business, nor should an HC and an AD pretend their history of friendship can sugar-coat the actual events and pretend it's still a friendship. Their friendship will suffer, and everything else, along the way. Bohn might do better hiring a personality he thinks is the biggest jerk he's ever known, rather than a long-time friend.

Still, I'm surprised that replacements haven't been lined up and - while I don't think there's a great urgency at this point - the Certain 1 or 2 had wink-wink conversations long before. In October. November. Last summer, even. Or maybe in Year 4 of Hawkins.

 

[EddieCrowder]

I think they did send smoke signals, and then Mac, Embo, and Klatt started in. Then guys like Herm Edwards pick up the ball and start running with it, and the next thing you know the 5 guys you had in mind tell you Thanks but NO THANKS

 

[branjohb]

I am in the Bohn ...

For those of us who've fired employees with some forewarning - days, weeks or months, perhaps - there's a good chance that the notion of "replacements" occurred well before the Day Of The Ax.

I have not faulted Bohn & Co one bit for his desired 'trajectory' move. I think it's by far the best action for all involved parties - it gives Bohn a chance to put an alumni coyote on the fence-post and display his "Only good coaches need apply - we'll cut off even favorite sons here - Do Nothing's won't last." And it gives our favorite son a chance to use Righteous Indignation to prevent serious harm from his fledging efforts as an HC.

But I AM surprised that the concept of "replacements" wasn't fully enacted. That there weren't at least smoke blown in certain directions.

I'm against having Bohn get a long-time friend, by the way. Those divorces are really ugly, and this is NOT a friendship business, nor should an HC and an AD pretend their history of friendship can sugar-coat the actual events and pretend it's still a friendship. Their friendship will suffer, and everything else, along the way. Bohn might do better hiring a personality he thinks is the biggest jerk he's ever known, rather than a long-time friend.

Still, I'm surprised that replacements haven't been lined up and - while I don't think there's a great urgency at this point - the Certain 1 or 2 had wink-wink conversations long before. In October. November. Last summer, even. Or maybe in Year 4 of Hawkins.

...head could screw up a wet dream club and from the way it sounds to me, Bohn never had the intent to fire Embree until right before the evil deed happened (two days max since he did tell his boss). Therefore, he probably should have had a replacement plan, but it does not sound like he had one, just a wish list.


I came from a company where there were succession plans for everyone. Not all of them were good plans, but at least people had to put some thought and effort developing and executing them. The way it sounds Bohn had a wish for a coach list and once Embree was canned, Bohn executed on the wish list. I am not sure how much else he could have done knowing that they were probably going to give Embree one more year, up until the final hours before they fired him.


I am sure Bohn is bustin' a hump right now trying to find a coach. We have moved to Defcon 1. Recruits are starting to jump ship and also the new coach has to put together a recruiting class.
Bohn's job is currently on life support.

 

[BuffaloChuck]

I'm not too convinced about recruits jumping ship.

Rather, I'm not certain "too many MORE" are jumping. They've either cleared the rigging the day the ax fell, but I'd be surprised if every recruit didn't have their hands firmly grasping any rope that was dangling near them.

The ones that aren't swinging are sold on Boulder and CU, or they know they can't get any better offer than the one tendered by Embree & Co, so their commitment stands.

But I always believe in the choice of better offers. Of course, human history proves that even the best and smartest options aren't the ones taken.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

I'm not too convinced about recruits jumping ship.

Rather, I'm not certain "too many MORE" are jumping. They've either cleared the rigging the day the ax fell, but I'd be surprised if every recruit didn't have their hands firmly grasping any rope that was dangling near them.

The ones that aren't swinging are sold on Boulder and CU, or they know they can't get any better offer than the one tendered by Embree & Co, so their commitment stands.

But I always believe in the choice of better offers. Of course, human history proves that even the best and smartest options aren't the ones taken.

How many of our guys have multiple offers? How many have offers in addition to ours where our offer is the best offer?

 

[MiamiBuffs]

For those of us who've fired employees with some forewarning - days, weeks or months, perhaps - there's a good chance that the notion of "replacements" occurred well before the Day Of The Ax.

I have not faulted Bohn & Co one bit for his desired 'trajectory' move. I think it's by far the best action for all involved parties - it gives Bohn a chance to put an alumni coyote on the fence-post and display his "Only good coaches need apply - we'll cut off even favorite sons here - Do Nothing's won't last." And it gives our favorite son a chance to use Righteous Indignation to prevent serious harm from his fledging efforts as an HC.

But I AM surprised that the concept of "replacements" wasn't fully enacted. That there weren't at least smoke blown in certain directions.

I'm against having Bohn get a long-time friend, by the way. Those divorces are really ugly, and this is NOT a friendship business, nor should an HC and an AD pretend their history of friendship can sugar-coat the actual events and pretend it's still a friendship. Their friendship will suffer, and everything else, along the way. Bohn might do better hiring a personality he thinks is the biggest jerk he's ever known, rather than a long-time friend.

Still, I'm surprised that replacements haven't been lined up and - while I don't think there's a great urgency at this point - the Certain 1 or 2 had wink-wink conversations long before. In October. November. Last summer, even. Or maybe in Year 4 of Hawkins.

I think, where it went pear shaped with Embree, was Mike's idea about making staff changes was vastly different than Jon's idea. Thus, the change ended up being a bit of a surprise.

 

[BuffaloChuck]

If Bohn honestly believed his "change in staff" was a solution to The Problem, then I strip away all my positive intelligence values I've donated to Bohn.

My argument against Only Staff Changes is this: "How could Embree suddenly know what Good instead of Bad Staff look like? Has he been spending even MORE time this season evaluating Other Coaches rather than helping his own team?!!"

Because Embree certainly doesn't have decades of Coaching Clinic pow-wows behind him, certainly doesn't have years and years of networking relationships built up.

Simply - he would merely be hiring whoever he could - and they may be better, or maybe they'd be suddenly more motivated. But there's also a greater-than-equal chance that every new hire understood "I have ONE year in this new job instead of X years in my comfy job."

What's the chance that a good, hardworking assistant would take that awful leap? I'd proffer: "NOT even close to a good chance." Embree could have ended up paying a lot more money to a lot of gold-diggers who were thinking, "I have to make about 4-years' worth of salary in this, Embree's last ever season."

AND...

If Embree could suddenly find lightning in the bottle over and over, "Why didn't your peabrain do this the FIRST time, Jon?!! You didn't select the best people you KNEW then but stuck us with bad choices?!!"

Heck, I'd probably ax him over THAT circumstance, too - or else keep the fires so high under him that he's always skating on thin ice.

NOT A GOOD THING in any way, shape or form.

I also don't think Bohn did this spur of the moment, and I'm certain there was ample discussion long long before the ax fell. Believing otherwise is way beyond reality in big-time college sports. No one's an island, much less a fortress.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

If Bohn honestly believed his "change in staff" was a solution to The Problem, then I strip away all my positive intelligence values I've donated to Bohn.

My argument against Only Staff Changes is this: "How could Embree suddenly know what Good instead of Bad Staff look like? Has he been spending even MORE time this season evaluating Other Coaches rather than helping his own team?!!"

Because Embree certainly doesn't have decades of Coaching Clinic pow-wows behind him, certainly doesn't have years and years of networking relationships built up.

Simply - he would merely be hiring whoever he could - and they may be better, or maybe they'd be suddenly more motivated. But there's also a greater-than-equal chance that every new hire understood "I have ONE year in this new job instead of X years in my comfy job."

What's the chance that a good, hardworking assistant would take that awful leap? I'd proffer: "NOT even close to a good chance." Embree could have ended up paying a lot more money to a lot of gold-diggers who were thinking, "I have to make about 4-years' worth of salary in this, Embree's last ever season."

AND...

If Embree could suddenly find lightning in the bottle over and over, "Why didn't your peabrain do this the FIRST time, Jon?!! You didn't select the best people you KNEW then but stuck us with bad choices?!!"

Heck, I'd probably ax him over THAT circumstance, too - or else keep the fires so high under him that he's always skating on thin ice.

NOT A GOOD THING in any way, shape or form.

I also don't think Bohn did this spur of the moment, and I'm certain there was ample discussion long long before the ax fell. Believing otherwise is way beyond reality in big-time college sports. No one's an island, much less a fortress.

I think it was a test. Bohn was thinking everyone but Jon is fired. If he's a man he will see the problems in the light of day and fire most of his friends. He failed Bohns test. That was Jon's only hope to get one more year.

Whatever happened its water over the dam now. Bohn moved up a lot with me when he pulled the trigger on a favorite son in just year 2. Thank god he got us into the PAC with the PAC money!

 

[Deleted member 807]

 

[BuffLuke80]

Unfortunately, part of my job is to let guys go that cant do the job, whatever the case may be. Usually, in my business, its production. It the hardest thing to do, especially when they have families. In Embree's case, I see a lack of production and no direction. He can say it was because he was black till hes blue in the face. I dont blame the AD one bit for getting rid of him, he couldnt do what he was paid to do, end of story. The rest is total cop out. I like Embree alot but Ive said many times, the dude isnt ready. If I could blame the AD for anything, its hiring a guy with no coordinator or hc history.

 

[DBT]

I wouldn't mind getting "fired" and paid $1.5 million after.

 

[leftybuff]

Sorry but Bohn has screwed this up so far, he may pull a rabbit out of a hat, but I am not impressed. I truly think he did not have the green light to dump Embree until after Utah. That puts him behind the eight ball, but look at how Cincy dealt with it. They had a plan if BJ left. Purdue had a plan if BJ said no. NCST knew who they wanted after they cannned O'Brien. You can go on and on, but Bohn is always a day late and a dollar short. Letting BJ string that out cost CU BJ. If they would have forced BJ's hand, he might be here. He might have still backed out, but Bohn, and more improtantly CU, would not look totally incompetent if they pulled the offer and moved on to another candidate. Do they have another candidate? Who the **** knows, they look completely amateurish. I guess focus groups and trial balloons take more time than a leader making a decision. I put the odds of TT filling their job before CU at about 60%. I don't know if Gerald Myers is still the AD there, but he isn't afraid to make a decision unlike Weak Hand Bohn.

I'm hoping for the best but not expecting it, Bohn could screw up a cup of water.

 

[DBT]

Sorry but Bohn has screwed this up so far, he may pull a rabbit out of a hat, but I am not impressed. I truly think he did not have the green light to dump Embree until after Utah. That puts him behind the eight ball, but look at how Cincy dealt with it. They had a plan if BJ left. Purdue had a plan if BJ said no. NCST knew who they wanted after they cannned O'Brien. You can go on and on, but Bohn is always a day late and a dollar short. Letting BJ string that out cost CU BJ. If they would have forced BJ's hand, he might be here. He might have still backed out, but Bohn, and more improtantly CU, would not look totally incompetent if they pulled the offer and moved on to another candidate. Do they have another candidate? Who the **** knows, they look completely amateurish. I guess focus groups and trial balloons take more time than a leader making a decision. I put the odds of TT filling their job before CU at about 60%. I don't know if Gerald Myers is still the AD there, but he isn't afraid to make a decision unlike Weak Hand Bohn.

I'm hoping for the best but not expecting it, Bohn could screw up a cup of water.

Gawd! You, too, have no ****ing clue. I am not a Bohn fan. I've gone back and forth on my desire to see him gone. He did just about all he could do here. His mistake was to trust a snake in the grass and his minions. Bohn took Jones at his word, not knowing he was getting played. But Bohn has integrity, I'll give him that and respect him for that.

 

[Buffenuf]

Sorry but Bohn has screwed this up so far, he may pull a rabbit out of a hat, but I am not impressed. I truly think he did not have the green light to dump Embree until after Utah. That puts him behind the eight ball, but look at how Cincy dealt with it. They had a plan if BJ left. Purdue had a plan if BJ said no. NCST knew who they wanted after they cannned O'Brien. You can go on and on, but Bohn is always a day late and a dollar short. Letting BJ string that out cost CU BJ. If they would have forced BJ's hand, he might be here. He might have still backed out, but Bohn, and more improtantly CU, would not look totally incompetent if they pulled the offer and moved on to another candidate. Do they have another candidate? Who the **** knows, they look completely amateurish. I guess focus groups and trial balloons take more time than a leader making a decision. I put the odds of TT filling their job before CU at about 60%. I don't know if Gerald Myers is still the AD there, but he isn't afraid to make a decision unlike Weak Hand Bohn.

I'm hoping for the best but not expecting it, Bohn could screw up a cup of water.

WRONG on so many levels it is not even remotely funny or response-worthy!

Just your highly predictable list of personal prejudices and Bohn-hatred.

Get a new gig, we've all suffered though your schtuff enough, as it is.

 

[leftybuff]

Watch and see, I truly hope i am wrong...CU FB probably cannot withstand a poor hire at this point.

 

[CUBUFF80]

Watch and see, I truly hope i am wrong...CU FB probably cannot withstand a poor hire at this point.

Exactly, I'm sure we could have the job filled now, but I think Bohn has to be careful to avoid a knee-jerk reaction to simply fill the position. This hire could be the most important one in the recent history of CU athletics.

 

[3option]

Watch and see, I truly hope i am wrong...CU FB probably cannot withstand a poor hire at this point.

Unfortunately, it can withstand a poor hire. How could it get any worse? We are already the worst team in the country in offense, defense, and overall. We lose to div II schools. We were owned by the Agricultural College of Colorado. We are the punchline for national sports programs. We have infighting among the administration, former players, and coaches.

Oh... and we ran a quarterback sneak on 1st and 10! (I may never get over that.)

Please let me know how it could get worse.

 

[Buffenuf]

Oh... and we ran a quarterback sneak on 1st and 10! (I may never get over that.)

.

Mac did it on occasion with Hagan, so what? Bienemy forgot that's a run-when-you-line-up play.

 

[sackman]

Please let me know how it could get worse.

If I've learned anything from this season, it's to never question the ability for things to get worse.

That said, I'm with you. We can withstand a poor hire. Where we couldn't withstand a poor hire was when we hired Embree. We got one, and now look at us.

 

[Junction]

Watch and see, I truly hope i am wrong...CU FB probably cannot withstand a poor hire at this point.

Which is the #1 reason why I'm ok with them taking 2 weeks to get the right guy, rather than panic and think they have to get somebody, anybody in 4 days so that they look "decisive"....

 

[fatbuff]

If I've learned anything from this season, it's to never question the ability for things to get worse.

That said, I'm with you. We can withstand a poor hire. Where we couldn't withstand a poor hire was when we hired Embree. We got one, and now look at us.

This is 100% correct, and the reason that DiSteffano should lose his position. There were plentiful options at the time, and JE was the cheapest. Phil is a moron.

 

[BuffaloChuck]

I have the Dec 29-30th deadline marked because that's going to be the likely day when the next big opening appears, this one with beaucoups of money riding. That said, candidates for that position may not be candidates that CU would consider OR would they necessarily pretend they'd be qualified for this next biggie.

I don't care about the Jones deal - not one bit. "Glad to be rid of him" is the proper attitude. If he'd signed and THEN discovered Tenn was after him - his choices would be to bolt OR to stay and resent CU, give it far far less energy and bail on his first chance.

These lessons come from the "Hell Hath No Fury Like An Employee Scorned" handbook.

I think CU Fans should be JOYOUS that Jones went to Tenn, and if he played us, SO WHAT?!! BETTER NOW THAN LATER!!

But it does shine the light that Bohn did not have ducks in a row. And while I love pretending that this was a long-considered firing (and c'mon, it HAD to be. There wasn't a day last year OR this season that Bohn didn't have that thought cross his mind), my now-conclusion is, "Uh - didn't you have more than a Wish List thought up? There hadn't been actual discussions, at least ear-to-ear?"

Heck, after Bohn hires Bill Walsh or Bud Grant or whoever, I think he should spend MORE time chatting to all of his non-selectees and begging their gracious understanding, being sure NO BRIDGE IS BURNED. And thus have on-going relations with more and more coaches and their agents.

CU Football has a chance to be great again. I don't think Tenn ever has been, or ever will be.

Why would I want any coach that would select THEM, therefore? Frankly, Tenn looks to be about a 99.99% lock on failure. Anyone taking that job isn't counting on success - they're counting on a PAYDAY.

Let Tenn have any coach that'd take 'em. I am soooo glad we didn't get snookered into him. We all should be.

 

[leftybuff]

Which is the #1 reason why I'm ok with them taking 2 weeks to get the right guy, rather than panic and think they have to get somebody, anybody in 4 days so that they look "decisive"....

You miss my point. The BJ deal had the earmarks of the potential hire setting the agenda rather than the Bohn doing it. I suggested as much while BJ was in play. You give a deadline, get a decision and be prepared to move, instead Bohn relies on BJ's word and keeps letting him drag it out. Not smart. But hey, who am I to criticize Bohn all of his FB hires have been winners, right? Well, no, none of them have, but if you want to ride that horse into battle, have at it....

Hopefully Bohn pulls a rabbit out of his hat. I just remain skeptical at this point.