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Game thread - Women's bball hosts DU (Thursday,12/12, 7:00 PM)

AztecBuff

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Go Buffs - beat the Pioneers!

(There are no preview articles available as I type this.)

A little on DU:
  • Per their schedule (https://denverpioneers.com/sports/womens-basketball/schedule/2019-20), they are 5-4. QUICKLY browsing through their schedule,I see one common opponent played so far, with both DU (by a 71-57 score at home) and CU (66-56 in Laramie) having defeated Wyoming.
  • Per their stats (https://denverpioneers.com/sports/womens-basketball/stats/2019-20), they're led both offensively and on the boards by senior 6'1" forward Madison Nelson (18.2 points and 12.6 rebounds per game), with senior guard Lauren Loven (13.2) and frosh forward Uju Ezeudu (12.8 along with 7.7 rebounds) being the other DU players averaging double figures. Ms. Loven has taken ~2.5 times as many 3's as any other Pioneer (making .357 of them) , so assume guarding her outside will be a priority.
____________________________________________________________________

Media links:

Game Notes -
Not available as I type this. https://cubuffs.com/documents/2019/12/11//12_12_Denver.pdf

Live video - Match will be viewable via a free live stream available at https://pac-12.com/live/cubuffs (as well I assume somewhere on the Pac 12 App?).

Live Audio - https://cubuffs.com/watch/?Live=2355&type=Live or https://tunein.com/radio/Colorado-Womens-Basketball-s308228/?_branch_match_id=733001829571548180 .

Live stats - https://cubuffs.com/sidearmstats/wbball/summary
 
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cubuffs.com preview now available-



Direct link - https://cubuffs.com/news/2019/12/11/womens-basketball-buffs-host-denver-on-thursday.aspx

"
BOULDER – The start of the 2019-20 season for the Colorado women's basketball team has been anything but perfect. Despite the growing pains, the Buffaloes are off to their best start since 2016-17.

The young Buffaloes have surprised many with their 8-0 start to the season. Colorado has continued to grow in the early season and is beginning to receive national attention. The Buffs continued to receive votes in the AP Top-25 poll for the second consecutive week, but still has plenty of room for improvement.

"We're just really striving to play better basketball," head coach JR Payne stated. "We want to have great practices. We want to continue to improve things that we know we're capable of improving and need to improve. Taking care of the basketball is one of them. We just need to work to have clean possessions. We want to play fast but we also want to play smart and be able to play together. We want to be able to read each other and make good decisions."

The Buffs are just one of eight teams in the NCAA that have three or fewer upperclassmen. Colorado's inexperience has been evident at times, especially in the turnover department. Sophomore Lesila Finau and freshman Jaylyn Sherrod have been given the reigns at point guard this season. The duo has helped Colorado average 14.3 assists per game this season, a mark ahead of last season's 12.2 average. The downside has been the Buffs' 19.1 turnovers per game.

"I don't expect us to ever really play a perfect game," Payne explained. "We're striving for great possessions. If we can string together back-to-back-to-back-to-back, good possessions, then we're playing good basketball. If we can just focus on really doing our job offensively and defensively, keeping it simple, fundamental I think we're in a good place."
...

Denver (5-4) poses a threat to the Buffs on defense. The Pioneers enter Thursday as the highest-scoring offense the Buffs have faced this season. DU ranks 25th in the NCAA in scoring, averaging 78.8 points per game. Pioneer senior Madison Nelson leads the charge for the Pioneers with her 18.2 points per game.

"They're [Denver] one of the higher scoring teams in the nation," Payne noted. "We expect them to play fast. They love to transition. They shoot the ball well from almost every position on the floor. It's really important that we focus on those two areas defensively."

For Colorado, Thursday marks the end of the 2019 home-slate. Colorado plays five straight on the road before its next home game against Southern California (Jan. 10). The Buffs will close out the calendar year at the Tulane Classic in New Orleans (Nov. 20-21), before opening Pac-12 play at Utah (Dec. 30).

Thursday's game is Holiday's with the Buffs. There will be a toy drive to benefit A Precious Child. Fans that donate a toy will receive a $5 general admission ticket to the USC game.

Thursday's game is set for a 7 p.m. MT tip. The game will be streamed online at CUBuffs.com/WatchWBB.
"
 
Just listen to JR talking about how much she loves this year's team, and loves coaching them. It is an exciting time to support this program. Clearly the Pac-12 is just a ridiculous conference and Colorado isn't going to win the regular season. Even though this years team is starkly improved playing with a higher basketball IQ, a selfless style of ball movement, a much more balanced scoring distribution, and a sensible rotation it is still possible that we might not see improvement in the Pac-12 conference win totals. The rest of the conference is that good, and everyone seemingly got better. A lot better in fact.

Some notes as per the article:

14.3 Assists per game (12.2 last season)
Impressed with our young PGs and their ability to and willingness to make plays for teammates, not just themselves.

19.1 Turnovers per game
Just way too many turnovers. Inflated due to the aggressive pressure of a couple of teams we've played with high effort, athletic guards that were just great on-ball defenders. Still, the defenders in the Pac-12 will be even better.

Denver can score. WNIT team last year, which is where the Buffs want to get to with its next step. Impressed with the coach at Denver right now. He inherited a fractured locker room at Denver for the 2017-18 season. If I remember correctly he didn't have a single scholarship to award his first year. He had to take the same players that finished 6-24 (3-14 in conference) and try to win with them. He did. He won with those same players that Kerry Cremeans couldn't win with the year before, going 16-14 (7-7 in conference).

interesting piece from when Turgeon was hired:
Paid dues in JUCO and Div-II

Unfortunately, in women's regional basketball teams area schools have been doing an amazing job of improving their programs. The gap between Colorado, even being a Pac-12 school and the local regional rivals has closed. Fingers crossed the Buffs get this one. Denver can just light it up when they get hot shooting, and Turgeon can coach. It shouldn't be lost on anyone that Denver's defense held Wyoming to basically the same offensive total (Denver allowed 57 to Wyo and CU allowed 56), but that the Pioneers put up 71 on them, and we only put up 66. Buffs need this non-conference game but we shouldn't look past the Pios.They won't be able to match up with Charlotte Whittaker, if she can stay out of foul trouble. Playing a smaller team can be problematic, learning to keep the arms straight up on block attempts, and not bring them down to swat the ball is tough to learn as a freshman.
 
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Just listen to JR talking about how much she loves this year's team, and loves coaching them. It is an exciting time to support this program. Clearly the Pac-12 is just a ridiculous conference and Colorado isn't going to win the regular season. Even though this years team is starkly improved playing with a higher basketball IQ, a selfless style of ball movement, a much more balanced scoring distribution, and a sensible rotation it is still possible that we might not see improvement in the Pac-12 conference win totals. The rest of the conference is that good, and everyone seemingly got better. A lot better in fact.

Some notes as per the article:

14.3 Assists per game (12.2 last season)
Impressed with our young PGs and their ability to and willingness to make plays for teammates, not just themselves.

19.1 Turnovers per game
Just way too many turnovers. Inflated due to the aggressive pressure of a couple of teams we've played with high effort, athletic guards that were just great on-ball defenders. Still, the defenders in the Pac-12 will be even better.

Denver can score. WNIT team last year, which is where the Buffs want to get to with its next step. Impressed with the coach at Denver right now. He inherited a fractured locker room at Denver for the 2017-18 season. If I remember correctly he didn't have a single scholarship to award his first year. He had to take the same players that finished 6-24 (3-14 in conference) and try to win with them. He did. He won with those same players that Kerry Cremeans couldn't win with the year before, going 16-14 (7-7 in conference).

interesting piece from when Turgeon was hired:
Paid dues in JUCO and Div-II

Unfortunately, in women's regional basketball teams area schools have been doing an amazing job of improving their programs. The gap between Colorado, even being a Pac-12 school and the local regional rivals has closed. Fingers crossed the Buffs get this one. Denver can just light it up when they get hot shooting, and Turgeon can coach. It shouldn't be lost on anyone that Denver's defense held Wyoming to basically the same offensive total (Denver allowed 57 to Wyo and CU allowed 56), but that the Pioneers put up 71 on them, and we only put up 66. Buffs need this non-conference game but we shouldn't look past the Pios.They won't be able to match up with Charlotte Whittaker, if she can stay out of foul trouble. Playing a smaller team can be problematic, learning to keep the arms straight up on block attempts, and not bring them down to swat the ball is tough to learn as a freshman.

Interesting insights. Is the 12.2 assists last year through the first 8 games or for the season? I seem to recall it being higher in non conference, although I could be wrong as last seasons non conference schedule was much tougher with the likes of North Carolina, Miami, Pepperdine etc.
 
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We'll get all the strength of schedule we want, just wait for the Pac-12 season to roll around. The one thing a women's basketball team in the Pac-12 does NOT have to worry about is whether their SOS is good enough. The selection committee for the women's tournament continues to use RPI which has components of Winning Percentage, Opponents Winning Percentage, and Opponents Opponents's Winning Percentage.

RPI = (WP * 0.25) + (OWP * 0.50) + (OOWP * 0.25)

Opponents Winning Percentage is weighted at twice the value of our Winning Percentage and our Opponents Opponents's Winning percentage in the calculation. Which is a takes too long way of explaining that SOS is somewhat important, especially as per the OOWP component, but only about half the weighting of our Opponent's Winning Percentage, and further diluted by our our Winning Percentage in the calculation. So what does that add up to? In the Pac-12? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Non-conference SOS is absolutely irrelevant, because the SOS is so difficult in-confernce. The only bearing non-conference SOS has on anything is whether it gets you ready for conference play. That's it. For NCAAW tournament selection committee consideration the Buffs RPI will be plenty high IF they can find the wins. Big if. That's almost an impossible ask of this team right now.

As of today, Colorado is 49th in RPI, and 5th in the Pac-12. We have a better RPI than Utah, Washington, Washington State, Arizona State, USC, Cal and UCLA. One of those teams won the WNIT last season and two of those teams made the NCAA tournament. Another would have if they hadn't been injured. SOS will take care of itself in this conference. Colorado will have one of the strongest SOS ratings coming out of the Pac-12 tournament, of any team in the country. The question is will we have enough Wins to make that SOS relevant to a selection committee? The Selection committee understands that the Pac-12 is the elite conference, but they still want any NCAAW tournament teams to be at least .500 in conference before getting the bid. That is probably not realistic for this team. While we are much better team than we have been since basically '12-13, when we finished 25-7 and made the NCAA touranament, but the conference has also gotten much much better. Most teams in this conference are recruiting elite four and five star recruits, and Colorado just isn't. We've been trying to compete playing with players who just are not on that same level. While we have some very good individual players that might have a couple of good tools (shoot, pass, rebound, defend, vision, athleticism, basketball IQ) the reality is some of the teams in this conference have players with plus plus length, with athleticism off the charts, and that have ALL the tools not just one or two. It's a tough challenge but we are just starting to see the results. JR has realized she can't but players out there that can do something well, but get exposed in other aspects of their game, without the loss column pilling up. JR is using a much more sensible rotation, and putting players in a position where they can have success and contribute give the team a chance to succeed. Prior to this season, JR pretty much refused to make changes even when players were getting exposed and we flat out couldn't compete. I don't think we'll see a different JR the rest of her time in Boulder. I think she is a good coach in a very tough challenge. In the entirety of her time in Colorado she hasn't played a conference game yet where she had the better players on the floor. Give her some credit for the wins we have managed. While this is a much better team than we've had in years, we really really need the Ws from the non-conference portion of the schedule if we want any possibility to go to the NCAAW or WNIT. We would need at least 9 wins in conference to make the NCAAW tournament, and we need a record above .500 after the conference tournament to be eligible for the WNIT.

The last thing that matters to this Buffs team right now is SOS. That will take care of itself all by itself. Just you wait. Our backcourt is significantly healthier, better, and deeper than it was last year. Our front court is the best its been since we had Roberson, Reese and Swan together. We have a coach that actually understands the Xs and Os of this game, and in many games have outcoached the opponent coaching staff on scout, adjustments and in-game scheme. We have a group of players that has come together much closer than they were last year, and they are talking about that. They are starting to play for each other. Around here that hasn't always been the case lately. While turnovers are very troubling, the good news is that we have players that are coachable, that want to win, and are accepting their roles and fighting through being a very young club. I think I read only 8 teams in all of Division One have as few upperclassmen as we do. We aren't as young as Indiana State. That dumpster fire would be interesting to get the low down on. Their coach cut and ran off every single player from last season. She came across as angry when they played here. JR is doing a great job with young players.

Where we want to get is the WNIT. Denver is a WNIT team. They are innovative, and very well coached. We'll learn something about our team and the process tonight. While things are trending upward for this CU program, things are skyrocketing upwards in the trends of both Denver and Northern Colorado. This should be a fun one. What it really comes down to is that CU needs every single W it can get in the chase to get above .500 for postseason eligibility. As good as some of the teams in this conference are, none will escape the Pac-12 schedule undefeated.

The good news is that JR Payne beat Stanford while coaching for Santa Clara, the season before she was hired here. The bad news is that JR Payne has largely been trying to compete in the Pac-12 with players about on par with WCC players like she had at Santa Clara. We didn't sign any top-100 players, but at least the trend is up. If Rick George is smart he'll stay the course and give JR Payne time to develop this program. It's not like JR Payne inherited a bunch of All-Americans. The season before JR got here this team went 2-16 in conference (the same as last season). The scary thing is even though our team is vastly improved, so is the rest of the conference, and probably by a greater margin. It is within the realm of possibility that we could actually not win a conference game, and potentially not win more than the 2 games we managed last season. Do I think that will happen? No, honestly I don't. However, losing is tough to manage.

Where are the wins going to come from? We absolutely have to get this game vs Denver tonight, and the next two vs UAB and Tulane. We only get six games this year against Utah, USC, Washington State, and Washington. If we somehow managed to win ALL of those games, we could potentially finish 17-12, and be off on a WNIT run. JR Payne could bring back Brittany Spears, Chucky Jeffrey, Shelly Sheetz, Lisa VanGoor, Jamillah Lang, Kate Fagan, Jackie McFarland, Tara Bjorkland, Bianca Smith, and Erin Scholz and we'd still struggle more than people realize vs Oregon, Oregon State, UCLA, Stanford, Cal, Arizona State, and Arizona. We recently had one the best players in program history finish her career here. She still finished 2-16 twice in this conference. This conference is just unbelievably difficult to play in.

Which is why the Buffs cannot look past this good shooting Denver team that is very very well coached. Denver defeated big time teams last season. The Pioneers beat New Mexico in the WNIT last season, and they defeated South Dakota who was ranked in both AP and coach's top-25 polls, and went to the NCAA tournament. Our CU team last season couldn't possibly have played with New Mexico or South Dakota last season.

'sko Buffs!
 
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Just listen to JR talking about how much she loves this year's team, and loves coaching them. It is an exciting time to support this program. Clearly the Pac-12 is just a ridiculous conference and Colorado isn't going to win the regular season. Even though this years team is starkly improved playing with a higher basketball IQ, a selfless style of ball movement, a much more balanced scoring distribution, and a sensible rotation it is still possible that we might not see improvement in the Pac-12 conference win totals. The rest of the conference is that good, and everyone seemingly got better. A lot better in fact.

Some notes as per the article:

14.3 Assists per game (12.2 last season)
Impressed with our young PGs and their ability to and willingness to make plays for teammates, not just themselves.

19.1 Turnovers per game
Just way too many turnovers. Inflated due to the aggressive pressure of a couple of teams we've played with high effort, athletic guards that were just great on-ball defenders. Still, the defenders in the Pac-12 will be even better.

Denver can score. WNIT team last year, which is where the Buffs want to get to with its next step. Impressed with the coach at Denver right now. He inherited a fractured locker room at Denver for the 2017-18 season. If I remember correctly he didn't have a single scholarship to award his first year. He had to take the same players that finished 6-24 (3-14 in conference) and try to win with them. He did. He won with those same players that Kerry Cremeans couldn't win with the year before, going 16-14 (7-7 in conference).

interesting piece from when Turgeon was hired:
Paid dues in JUCO and Div-II

Unfortunately, in women's regional basketball teams area schools have been doing an amazing job of improving their programs. The gap between Colorado, even being a Pac-12 school and the local regional rivals has closed. Fingers crossed the Buffs get this one. Denver can just light it up when they get hot shooting, and Turgeon can coach. It shouldn't be lost on anyone that Denver's defense held Wyoming to basically the same offensive total (Denver allowed 57 to Wyo and CU allowed 56), but that the Pioneers put up 71 on them, and we only put up 66. Buffs need this non-conference game but we shouldn't look past the Pios.They won't be able to match up with Charlotte Whittaker, if she can stay out of foul trouble. Playing a smaller team can be problematic, learning to keep the arms straight up on block attempts, and not bring them down to swat the ball is tough to learn as a freshman.

Interesting insights. Is the 12.2 assists last year through the first 8 games or for the season? I seem to recall it being higher in non conference, although I could be wrong as last seasons non conference schedule was much tougher with the likes of North Carolina, Miami, Pepperdine etc.
 
Good first half up by 28. Clark and the offense looking good. DU is like CSU last night jacking up 3s all over, but rebounding better.
 
Interesting insights. Is the 12.2 assists last year through the first 8 games or for the season? I seem to recall it being higher in non conference, although I could be wrong as last seasons non conference schedule was much tougher with the likes of North Carolina, Miami, Pepperdine etc.

uh huh...entirely new user. Got it. Welcome! Coincidentally, making the same argument about a departed player. So the only posts you've ever made are the identical argument that HappyBuff makes regarding their daughter/granddaughter being the "best player" ever and if we drill down to your point we'll know that because the accomplishments this team is making with playing selfless and TEAM basketball are just a mirage because it's all a function of Kennedy facing better competition non-conference? Seriously? I guess it is possible you are two separate people.

It is also possible that the Buffs last night put up more assists than they have in nearly five years! 25 Assists! TEAM basketball. It was beautiful to watch.
 
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It really was a great game. Denver is a good little team and Denver can shoot. The Buffs made this game look like it was an exhibition game against a Division II opponent, not a game against a regional Division I rival that went to the WNIT last season. The Pios never knew what hit them. The Buffs came out with such a intensity that Denver just couldn't possibly match. I was very impressed that Denver was scoring to hang with the Buffs (they can shoot) early, until Emma just went off and buried them. Emma Clarke is a very special player who didn't really get a chance to show how talented she was last year. For whatever reason Emma would be wide open, but would get looked off only for the ball to go elswhere to other players that were struggling shooting (SG ended up with 230 more shots than Emma even though Emma was the better shooting by FG percentages and on 3s). You didn't have to be Sue Bird running Analytics to realize that Emma was the better shooting option last year and the Buffs weren't playing smart basketball.

It will be curious to see how Turgeon recruits going forward and where he will take Denver. Tonight the athleticism and length of CU, and just the sheer talent disparity between these teams was on glaring display. The selfless ball movement by Colorado was beautiful to watch, and these Buffs players are doing a great job of playing with rhythm through a rotation of players. They are just all playing well with each other and for each other.

“I think we’re a really good basketball team and I love being able to say we’re a great TEAM,” CU head coach JR Payne

That was certainly fun to watch. Buffs need to get the next two at the Tulane Classic. With three of the first Pac-12 games on the road, I'm disappointed with the schedule. The Pac-12 is difficult enough, and we only get Washington and Washington State one game each this year. We need to have an above .500 record after the Pac-12 tournament. Fingers crossed we get through UAB and Tulane without getting upset. We'd be at 11-0. Pac-12 schedule is 18 games plus at least one tournament game. 11-0 non-conference and 6 conference wins would get us to 17-13 (assuming we drop the first game of the conference tournament) and that would get us into the WNIT. Denver beat a good New Mexico team in the WNIT. We just dismantled the Denver program all the way back to Division II. I'd love to see what this team could do in the WNIT. It would be a fun run.

This program needs 8 more wins, 2 non-conference and 6 conference anywhere we can find them to go to the postseason. I'm not even going to dare to dream about finishing 9-9 in conference and going to the NCAA tournament. Though if the Buffs put together a couple of more performances like vs Denver, I'm going to start dreaming.
 
uh huh...entirely new user. Got it. Welcome! Coincidentally, making the same argument about a departed player. So the only posts you've ever made are the identical argument that HappyBuff makes regarding their daughter/granddaughter being the "best player" ever and if we drill down to your point we'll know that because the accomplishments this team is making with playing selfless and TEAM basketball are just a mirage because it's all a function of Kennedy facing better competition non-conference? Seriously? I guess it is possible you are two separate people.

It is also possible that the Buffs last night put up more assists than they have in nearly five years! 25 Assists! TEAM basketball. It was beautiful to watch.
Sorry, did not know new users were not allowed to respond to your posts or ask questions.
 
Sorry, did not know new users were not allowed to respond to your posts or ask questions.

Welcome to the site. As for the idiot you were asking questions to, please feel free to ignore him/her. He/she is also new to the site, but has posted some of the most tiring, moronic, nonsensical posts, and I'm really hoping he/she moves on to another board like Netbuffs or something else. As for Allbuffs though, there are some great fans of the women's team on here with some great insight - I am not one of them. Of course I root for the team though - go Buffs!
 
Welcome to the site. As for the idiot you were asking questions to, please feel free to ignore him/her. He/she is also new to the site, but has posted some of the most tiring, moronic, nonsensical posts, and I'm really hoping he/she moves on to another board like Netbuffs or something else. As for Allbuffs though, there are some great fans of the women's team on here with some great insight - I am not one of them. Of course I root for the team though - go Buffs!

I am one of the WBB fans who has been here a long time. Yes, I just put RWAG on ignore. Don't need to read circular novels that hint at "inside" information but never gives sources.

As for @BeAbuff welcome!
 
Nice win. They seem to be improving while racking up these wins. Was concerned they might get lazy against this schedule.
 
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