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glad to see that S and C finally made an adjustment

HCMM is 100% putting his stamp on the program in every area including S&C. This is obviously a direction not originally promoted by Foreman who supposedly hated the max rep model. HCMM wants the team stronger and in general to increase the level of competition in the program. I kind of bought into Foreman's seemingly new-aged philosophy but I buy more into HCMM so should be fun to see.
 
Actually has been a head scratcher to me.

Forman was a disciple of the guy from Stanford.
Stanford had very large and physical teams.
Forman had success with whatever he was doing at SJSU, I assume.
Forman got here and decided to Boulderize this thing and turn the team into vegetarian Yogis? This never made any sense to me, given his background.

Did Forman change his philosophy? He's on record as saying he is constantly making adjustments.
Was the plan always that they needed to address Functional Fitness and Flexibility first and then address bulk - or did HCMM finally say STOP! and go back to traditional approaches? Is this more about player "buy in" than philosophy (despite what is being said to press)?
 
amen flounder...hawk's S and C guy was a big proponent of heavy weights - low reps...not sure that worked..but if you take a look around the country...at top team's S and C programs...it seems to be a combo of strength training - olympic lifting - everything revolves around explosive movement - gone are the days of bench-squat-power clean...those lifts are still included, but the better programs emphasize explosive movements. And dont get me wrong...a bench press contest still brings out the competitive juices in the weight room..but doesn't guarantee anything on the field..see eric richter..when you have a chance, look at some of the videos online showing what alosi is doing at ucla.
 
buffaholic...you hit the nail on the head--when formen showed up he wanted to put his stamp on things which is natural..but, he alienated several of the S and C support staff...the very guys who worked with the players on a daily basis and knew the returning vets very very well...forman went into crossfit mode and basically alienated everyone with his gestapo methods. Hence, CU was lining up with 280lb worn out O linemen in the 2013 season..the players knew what was going on and by the middle of the season had seen enough of this garbage..the funny thing is that there is a self professed O line guru on the CU rivals site who trumpted the arrival of forman and his ways...several savvy readers pointed this stuff out to him and he squashed them. I applaud HCMM for recognizing this problem and forcing a large adjustment..heck, the very fact that he invited Matt Mchesney to hop on the staff is a huge step in the right direction...even though matt said no, at very least it shows that HCMM recognized the isssue and is attempting to deal with it. As i mentioned in my first note above..check the vitals on the 3 highly rated D line guys from the Pac 12 in this year's NFL draft..310-320lb explosive guys trump 280 lb worn out crossfitters any day of the week.
 
buffaholic said:
Actually has been a head scratcher to me.

Forman was a disciple of the guy from Stanford.
Stanford had very large and physical teams.
Forman had success with whatever he was doing at SJSU, I assume.
Forman got here and decided to Boulderize this thing and turn the team into vegetarian Yogis? This never made any sense to me, given his background.

Did Forman change his philosophy? He's on record as saying he is constantly making adjustments.
Was the plan always that they needed to address Functional Fitness and Flexibility first and then address bulk - or did HCMM finally say STOP! and go back to traditional approaches? Is this more about player "buy in" than philosophy (despite what is being said to press)?
Click to expand...

Combination of all of the above! When HCMM first got here, S&C was almost optional under WB, guys were given a program , but not coached up in it., thus the two years' record number of games/players lost to injuries during the WB regime. Basic fitness, flexibility and overall functionality had to be restored along with the team buy-in. It appears the original plan was for a three year investment in basice as the roster matured, then follow up with more traditional heavy weight training to increase size and strength.

First few goals were accomplished (reduced injuries, get rid of useless bulk-fat, team buy-in) so the HC decided to accelerate the program. Still seems to adhere to the basic Stanford/SJSU model. Gee, adjusting on the flay.....who knew head coaches were supposed to do that sort of thing? (Apparently not Sly!)
 
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slystone said:
buffaholic...you hit the nail on the head--when formen showed up he wanted to put his stamp on things which is natural..but, he alienated several of the S and C support staff...the very guys who worked with the players on a daily basis and knew the returning vets very very well...forman went into crossfit mode and basically alienated everyone with his gestapo methods. Hence, CU was lining up with 280lb worn out O linemen in the 2013 season..the players knew what was going on and by the middle of the season had seen enough of this garbage..the funny thing is that there is a self professed O line guru on the CU rivals site who trumpted the arrival of forman and his ways...several savvy readers pointed this stuff out to him and he squashed them. I applaud HCMM for recognizing this problem and forcing a large adjustment..heck, the very fact that he invited Matt Mchesney to hop on the staff is a huge step in the right direction...even though matt said no, at very least it shows that HCMM recognized the isssue and is attempting to deal with it. As i mentioned in my first note above..check the vitals on the 3 highly rated D line guys from the Pac 12 in this year's NFL draft..310-320lb explosive guys trump 280 lb worn out crossfitters any day of the week.[/QUOTE]

Funny I watched the Buffs all those games and I didn't see them get "worn out and handled" as expressed. I saw them stay with Pac-12 opponents like Sheldon, who did nothing aginst the Buffs this past season, or the Utah DL, who were sack leaders in the Pac, but didn't register a single meaningful sack agaisnt the Buffs (3 for 3 total yds in losses.)

A team does not stay in the lead or stay competitive through a game, or come back in any fashion, if its lines are as weak and "worn out" as ol' Sly implies.

Seems Sly has a huge axe to grind against Forman....Be honest, tell us your back story Sly. We'll be fascinated, I'm sure.
Click to expand...
 
slystone said:
buffaholic...you hit the nail on the head--when formen showed up he wanted to put his stamp on things which is natural..but, he alienated several of the S and C support staff...the very guys who worked with the players on a daily basis and knew the returning vets very very well...forman went into crossfit mode and basically alienated everyone with his gestapo methods. Hence, CU was lining up with 280lb worn out O linemen in the 2013 season..the players knew what was going on and by the middle of the season had seen enough of this garbage..the funny thing is that there is a self professed O line guru on the CU rivals site who trumpted the arrival of forman and his ways...several savvy readers pointed this stuff out to him and he squashed them. I applaud HCMM for recognizing this problem and forcing a large adjustment..heck, the very fact that he invited Matt Mchesney to hop on the staff is a huge step in the right direction...even though matt said no, at very least it shows that HCMM recognized the isssue and is attempting to deal with it. As i mentioned in my first note above..check the vitals on the 3 highly rated D line guys from the Pac 12 in this year's NFL draft..310-320lb explosive guys trump 280 lb worn out crossfitters any day of the week.
Click to expand...

First, the enter button is your friend.

Second, it wasn't crossfit. It was teaching proper lifting technique and building an acceptable base to minimize injury. We had a major injury problem before Foreman got here, and that needed to be fixed and depending on the injury you can trace it back to poor lifting form.

Third, you're ignoring the youth we played on this team the last two years. How many of those 310-320lb explosive guys were underclassmen? Not to mention that Tupuo is 320+, Solis and Lopez are 300+, the interior of the OL is mainly comprised of guys being 300+ (Callahan, Kelley, Huckins, etc.). Age is a big deal, and you're totally ignoring it, and that's very odd. I find the size issues to be much more of a product of constant attrition that gets compounded by the lack of upperclassmen leadership before this Spring. If kids are washing out of the program at as high of a rate as they have under Hawkins and Embree, you aren't going to make much progress in the weight room if you have guys who are only there for a year or 2 as 19/20 year old kids, especially on the lines where age is normally a big deal there.

Fourth, who are the top guys you are talking about?
 
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'Tini said:
First, the enter button is your friend.

Second, it wasn't crossfit. It was teaching proper lifting technique and building an acceptable base to minimize injury. We had a major injury problem before Foreman got here, and that needed to be fixed and depending on the injury you can trace it back to poor lifting form.

Third, you're ignoring the youth we played on this team the last two years. How many of those 310-320lb explosive guys were underclassmen? Not to mention that Tupuo is 320+, Solis and Lopez are 300+, the interior of the OL is mainly comprised of guys being 300+ (Callahan, Kelley, Huckins, etc.). Age is a big deal, and you're totally ignoring it, and that's very odd. I find the size issues to be much more of a product of constant attrition that gets compounded by the lack of upperclassmen leadership before this Spring. If kids are washing out of the program at as high of a rate as they have under Hawkins and Embree, you aren't going to make much progress in the weight room if you have guys who are only there for a year or 2 as 19/20 year old kids, especially on the lines where age is normally a big deal there.

Fourth, who are the top guys you are talking about?
Click to expand...

Points well-made!

We'll never get a candid view of Sly's real points of vengence here in his posts; too chicken! He only knows one thing : Size, bigger is better, good or bad. Doesn't matter if your hogs are frequently outta commision from bad lifting, only that they're huge.
 
Yeah - I feel there's a lot of misinfo in this thread. I bit my tongue and I agree with 'Tini here for once.
 
Forman isn't a get in your face S&C coach. In the past, he's allowed the players to find their own motivation. Something that works better with a built in culture. That has apparently changed at the request of MacIntyre. Hearing he's much more involved and as we have read there is more competition right now in the weight room. We expect to get bigger and more powerful every off season and with the exception of a few here and there, it has rarely been the case.

Some of the more vocal critics of the S&C program have changed their tune over the last couple months. Am really looking forward to seeing if we get the results by fall camp. Five months to get it done.
 
Blacken didn't have our guys using poor lifting techniques. Perhaps he wasn't optimizing for injury prevention but I don't think he had us doing something out of the ordinary.

blah blah blah
 
Plagiarizing myself from a similar thread on the Rivals board:

Beyond a greater emphasis on power lifts, I think there's another component to this [MM talking about Power Lifts and a spring competition on max lifts].

Competition.

Forman is very process oriented. That's great. But not everyone is motivated that way. In fact, I'd say that most people aren't. They're goal oriented. They'll be motivated by peer pressure from their group and to measure against a stated goal. It's a different psychology and it's needed.

Also, last year's team lost a lot of close games. It didn't close. It didn't finish. In some big situations, it turtled. Emphasizing competition in all that the team does is a way to correct that.
 
Buffnik said:
Plagiarizing myself from a similar thread on the Rivals board:

Beyond a greater emphasis on power lifts, I think there's another component to this [MM talking about Power Lifts and a spring competition on max lifts].

Competition.

Forman is very process oriented. That's great. But not everyone is motivated that way. In fact, I'd say that most people aren't. They're goal oriented. They'll be motivated by peer pressure from their group and to measure against a stated goal. It's a different psychology and it's needed.

Also, last year's team lost a lot of close games. It didn't close. It didn't finish. In some big situations, it turtled. Emphasizing competition in all that the team does is a way to correct that.
Click to expand...

This is what I took away the latest MM interview on Rivals. Looking to get more results oriented this off season.
 
boydbuff said:
HCMM is 100% putting his stamp on the program in every area including S&C. This is obviously a direction not originally promoted by Foreman who supposedly hated the max rep model. HCMM wants the team stronger and in general to increase the level of competition in the program. I kind of bought into Foreman's seemingly new-aged philosophy but I buy more into HCMM so should be fun to see.
Click to expand...

So what you are really saying is after two years MacIntyre is finally figuring it out - that is good. It only took $4 Million. You seem to continually ignore the fact that MacIntyre is the guy in charge and these guys work for him and he should be approving their plans and approaches from Day 1.

The S&C program is always the big changer on these boards - two years ago everyone was singing the praises of Foreman. The problem with S&C is it is not one size fits all. Guys almost need personalized programs and they change over time.
 
BlackNGold said:
So what you are really saying is after two years MacIntyre is finally figuring it out - that is good. It only took $4 Million. You seem to continually ignore the fact that MacIntyre is the guy in charge and these guys work for him and he should be approving their plans and approaches from Day 1.

The S&C program is always the big changer on these boards - two years ago everyone was singing the praises of Foreman. The problem with S&C is it is not one size fits all. Guys almost need personalized programs and they change over time.
Click to expand...
God forbid if the coaches adapt
 
BlackNGold said:
So what you are really saying is after two years MacIntyre is finally figuring it out - that is good. It only took $4 Million. You seem to continually ignore the fact that MacIntyre is the guy in charge and these guys work for him and he should be approving their plans and approaches from Day 1.

The S&C program is always the big changer on these boards - two years ago everyone was singing the praises of Foreman. The problem with S&C is it is not one size fits all. Guys almost need personalized programs and they change over time.
Click to expand...

BNG - I don't expect any CU coach or player to be mistake-free. I expect them to be self-aware. Identify and correct. The biggest failures we've seen have been with guys who have their way, don't self-critique, and don't adapt.

I don't excuse the mistakes, but I also don't get hung up on them when they're not getting repeated.
 
You actually need good base strength for explosive training. Squats and various forms of DL are a major component of Olympic weight lifting.
 
EscapeFromNMBuff said:
You actually need good base strength for explosive training. Squats and various forms of DL are a major component of Olympic weight lifting.
Click to expand...

It really needs to be a mix, though. What Forman emphasized on "functional strength" is also important. I know I've been around guys who had that "country strong" thing from tossing hay bales who were nowhere close to being the bench press max champ on the team but could fight through blocks & traffic to make plays. Hopefully what Forman is now finding is that balance between the two. I'm ok with him emphasizing functional strength, but not the the minimization or exclusion of base power.
 
Buffnik said:
BNG - I don't expect any CU coach or player to be mistake-free. I expect them to be self-aware. Identify and correct. The biggest failures we've seen have been with guys who have their way, don't self-critique, and don't adapt. I don't excuse the mistakes, but I also don't get hung up on them when they're not getting repeated.
Click to expand...
Fair.
 
buffaholic said:
Did Forman change his philosophy? ?
Click to expand...


I've spoken to Foreman at length a couple of times about this at donor events there are a number of things in play, including we the fans over celebrating things. This first 2 years at both Furd and SjSu were about changing the approach, mitigating injuries, and then building on a solid foundation.

At furd their main challenge was the holdovers were smart but beaten down, at SJSU the issue was no one had ever trained properly and didnt have a work ethic, it took time in both places to instill that. Here the challenge was depth. They had so few athletes that they had to keep the 1's on the field at all costs so they again tweaked what they did. Now they have more depth they can begin to focus on on things like this.

These conversations were alll had at least 3 months ago so things may have changed but he's been pretty consistent when he's spoken about it with me.
 
Buffnik said:
BNG - I don't expect any CU coach or player to be mistake-free. I expect them to be self-aware. Identify and correct. The biggest failures we've seen have been with guys who have their way, don't self-critique, and don't adapt.

I don't excuse the mistakes, but I also don't get hung up on them when they're not getting repeated.
Click to expand...

My comment was pointed to fans like Boyd who put MacIntyre as infallible and not having any accountability for decision they made in the past. Boyd acts like the mistakes never happen and MacIntyre is a genius. I have no idea on S&C but I know CU fans like to say the last guy was c--p and the new guy is great when it comes to S&C staff. Blacken was pretty good.
 
I sat in on a couple sessions with Foreman at the Glazier clinic a few weeks back and during his "advanced" session, he talked about how the team is just now getting into some of the really good, complex workouts. He said there was no way he was able to introduce some of the things they are now doing, until he had developed a good S&C foundation with the kids. One of the examples he used was the introduction of the French Contrast (Google is your friend here) methods in a lot of their workouts. He said the gains/improvements he's seen in the players have been off the charts compared to prior years.
 
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