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Good call by MacIntyre regarding Payne?
- Thread starter NashBuff
- Start date
So much for Embree bringing in high character guys... the last two years apparently can still crumble to new lows. I am glad we have coach mac.
Had she graduated? She's not listed on the golf roster at cubuffs.com.
lawdogg
Club Member
I get that there are still a lot of hard feelings out there, but do we have to tie every story back to JE? Big Mac has been on the job for several months now and we should all feel some optimism for the future; maybe it's time to move on.
Its tough moving past it during this offseason with all the negative stories coming out about the players he recruited (leaving, quitting, or being kicked off the team) and about his complete ineptitude in coaching. Things will start to fade once the games start.
There's only one way to really find out.
You have to wonder if there weren't some clues about this ahead of time. Number 6 RB in California committing to a staff that couldn't recruit their way out of a paper bag. Just makes me think that he may have had some issues that caused other schools to back off from him.
Yep, we're past the talking stage. What's 3 divided by 3, anyway? I think that will tell us everything we need to know. If you get the math wrong, you can always explain it away.
Yup! WB & Co deserve every shot they get after the way he left, badly playing the race card. If he hadn't done that, it would be far easier to move on, but, nooooooo, he had to place the blame elsewhere, while doing it in the worst fashion possible!
Bold above has been well documented.
I think we've covered this in the last few days in other threads! Top RB's with no baggage weren't coming to CU. You either take a chance on a guy (props your ratings) or you find a guy you think you can develop. This makes the Michael Adkins way of doing things look pretty nice about now....
Embree knowingly took a chance on this guy and knew he would require special attention. I'm not going to hold Jon or Eric responsible for this kid's behavior 8 months after they were fired, because they are not here to provide special attention. There were issues all along though, certainly more than Jon had hoped for. By all reports, the kid wasn't ready to turn a new leaf with the chance Embree and Bienemy provided him.
Disclaimer, I am quite familiar with the gal in the car with Payne, a local Longmont product. She has not been on the CU roster for some time.
BlackNGold
Club Member
Bold above has been well documented.
I think we've covered this in the last few days in other threads! Top RB's with no baggage weren't coming to CU. You either take a chance on a guy (props your ratings) or you find a guy you think you can develop. This makes the Michael Adkins way of doing things look pretty nice about now....
Embree knowingly took a chance on this guy and knew he would require special attention. I'm not going to hold Jon or Eric responsible for this kid's behavior 8 months after they were fired, because they are not here to provide special attention. There were issues all along though, certainly more than Jon had hoped for. By all reports, the kid wasn't ready to turn a new leaf with the chance Embree and Bienemy provided him.
Disclaimer, I am quite familiar with the gal in the car with Payne, a local Longmont product. She has not been on the CU roster for some time.
Well Stated. The endless bashing of Embree for every little thing is over the top. Embree did not work out and it is over. Now it is MacIntyre's turn at bat.
She got kicked off the golf team
On the coach front, it's all about ego.
Most think they can be the influence that keeps a problem kid from going off the deep end. Most also think they can be the coach who gets the most out of what talent the lesser athletes have on the team by "coaching them up" and scheming to what they can do pretty well.
Whether we're talking McCartney, Neuheisel, Barnett, Hawkins, Embree or MacIntyre... every single coach took risks on questionable characters and questionable students to get athletes. Every single coach also liked his choir boy "good soldiers" with middling talent, believing he was the man to get the most out of those kids.
Where I think Hawkins and Embree went wrong is that you need to set the culture before bringing in the questionable characters to raise the talent level. Those questionable characters need to walk into an organization that has a certain way of doing things and veteran leadership on the team that has been doing things that way. Both Macs seem to get that with the rebuilds. Rick and Barney had very different situations, as they were looking to put their own stamp on a top program they came into (with Barney inheriting many more issues brewing under the surface). Barney decided to take a step back so he could go forward in order to set the culture, which is what I think most of us erroneously believed was happening under Hawkins from '06 thru '07.
Most think they can be the influence that keeps a problem kid from going off the deep end. Most also think they can be the coach who gets the most out of what talent the lesser athletes have on the team by "coaching them up" and scheming to what they can do pretty well.
Whether we're talking McCartney, Neuheisel, Barnett, Hawkins, Embree or MacIntyre... every single coach took risks on questionable characters and questionable students to get athletes. Every single coach also liked his choir boy "good soldiers" with middling talent, believing he was the man to get the most out of those kids.
Where I think Hawkins and Embree went wrong is that you need to set the culture before bringing in the questionable characters to raise the talent level. Those questionable characters need to walk into an organization that has a certain way of doing things and veteran leadership on the team that has been doing things that way. Both Macs seem to get that with the rebuilds. Rick and Barney had very different situations, as they were looking to put their own stamp on a top program they came into (with Barney inheriting many more issues brewing under the surface). Barney decided to take a step back so he could go forward in order to set the culture, which is what I think most of us erroneously believed was happening under Hawkins from '06 thru '07.
BlackNGold
Club Member
I went to a conference recently where Mike Ditka was one of the keynote speakers. It was a relatively small audience - about 400 - so we got to ask him questions. Someone asks him how he motivates his team and Ditka said you cannot motivate people, they have to motivate themselves - which is similar to what Barnett always said "They will take themselves farther then you will ever be able to take them." Barnett believed that you had to develop strong leaders on the team that others would follow. I believe that under Hawkins leadership was not nurtured on the team and that has led to a lot of the issues that CU has and why the transitions will be tough. The entire culture needs to change.
Edit: I wanted to add Neuheisel as having a similar approach to Hawkins - which emphasized the individual over the team undermining leadership. When RN took over at CU - good team leadership was in place but as those leaders left he was not developing new leaders to replace them and you saw the results at all of his stops in spite of having better than average talent.
Edit: I wanted to add Neuheisel as having a similar approach to Hawkins - which emphasized the individual over the team undermining leadership. When RN took over at CU - good team leadership was in place but as those leaders left he was not developing new leaders to replace them and you saw the results at all of his stops in spite of having better than average talent.
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This was the root of many problems for both coaches. The lack of a solid, accepted culture led to a continum of problems both on and off the field. Certain players felt no responsibility to the team, players didn't practice hard, didn't study and learn their football knowledge. Others didn't take care of business in the classroom.
The biggest issue is that without that culture it is hard for guys who want to do the right thing to hold their teammates accountable.
You are right in that virtually every team takes a certain number of risk in order to bring in talent. The difference is that with a strong culture and enough of the kids who aren't the risky ones the risky kids are much more likely to conform and if they don't teammates and coaches can be more comfortable calling them out.
Ozbuff
Member
It's obvious that Embree's tenure didn't work out on the field, but I'm not sure it's fair to criticize him for discplinary problems. I can't remember much bad news coming out of the football program (off the field) while he was coach. A couple of players were caught with weed, if I remember correctly, but I can't think of anything else. And let's face it, weed is smoked by a substantial portion of the student body.
I know Payne was Embree's recruit, but Embree's not around. I don't think it's fair to blame Embree for issues occurring now when he's thousands of miles away. Maybe Payne wasn't worth the risk, but I distinctly remember most ABers being very excited by his commitment at the time.
Edit: We also don't know yet exactly what happened with Payne. Sounds pretty bad, but other facts could come to light.