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Great new article on Denver post.

bigbang2

blindslighted
http://www.denverpost.com/frei/ci_22078431/terry-frei-equality-exists-when-black-coaches-get


Like this guys comment, weird name like O'**** **** hahaha

ohenhen1 babout 2 hours agoTerry

Great Article.

It is now almost predictable that, every time in our society, that every time you try to have an honest open disccusion about racism. You get folks that try to dismiss it or ignore it. The stats don't lie, anyone can go and research the hiring process of coaches in the history of FBS or before. It is disgracefull. I personally don't think the firing of Embo was based on race. I do believe there is a problem. As an African American, I find it annoying everytime I read or hear people try to dismiss it. How can you have open dialogue to fix the problem, when there are section of folks that just want to bury it under the rug. When I look at a person, I don't see race, I see a fellow brother or sister. I have met people that are racist, digustly racist. Embo wasn't fired because he is African American, he was fired because of the University of Colorado administration is incompetent. What did they expect hiring a coach that took over a football program that was down. 28 seniors graduated last year. This year they have 8 seniors. Who ever comes in, will not win next year. Just a quick look over the University of Colorado schedule, I can see 10 to 11 losses. I will give them the CSU win, maybe. The team is two years away maybe. We shall see. If the Administration are now willing to make the commitments to new facilities and etc to the new coach they didn't give Embo.

Read more:Frei: Asking questions isn't playing race card - The Denver Posthttp://www.denverpost.com/frei/ci_2...y-exists-when-black-coaches-get#ixzz2DapP5E9U
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse
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I wonder if Ohenhen is his first name or last name. Interesting opinions there.
 
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That's what stands out about the article to me. Whether or not Ohenhen is his first or last name, while no other possibility exists. Much the way I ponder many a night whether or not bigbang is your first or last name.
 
Oh brother. Embree's firing had nothing to do with race. Given some of Mac's comments after Embree was hired, Embree may have been hired because of race, insomuch as Buffs4Life pushed for a black head coach.

College football is big business. Do you really think an AD won't hire the best candidate for a HC position because of race? Maybe in the deep South, but even then I doubt it. The article and your repeated attempts to make this an issue ignore the root problem. Lack of qualified black candidates for HC positions. If people or organizations (BCA) view the lack of black HCs in the NCAA as an issue, those people need to put their efforts into producing more qualified candidates, not screaming racism every time a black HC is fired or a black candidate doesn't get the job.

Last year, 15 out of 120 HCs in the FBS were black (12.5%). While this is out of proportion to the percentage of black FBS players, it is nearly identical to the percentage of the U.S. population that identifies itself as black (13.1%). The most racist people involved in the ordeal at CU are Coach Mac and Embree. They are the only ones letting race skew their perceptions of the situation. And that brings me to the bottom line: racism is letting an individual's race skew your perception of their value as a person or in this instance a HC. A world truly free of racism is one where the best HC candidate is hired for the job, regardless of race. Insistence on more black HCs for the sake of more black HCs is racism.
 
azbuff said:
If people or organizations (BCA) view the lack of black HCs in the NCAA as an issue, those people need to put their efforts into producing more qualified candidates, not screaming racism every time a black HC is fired or a black candidate doesn't get the job.
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It's rare that you can point to off-field, social type issues and say that the NFL is well ahead of the college game. But in the advancement of minority coaches, they are. The reason they are is because about 20 years ago they recognized exactly what azbuff is saying here. Instead of going out and hiring minority coaches for sake of hiring minority coaches, what they did was make a league wide effort to train, mentor and develop young minority coaches.

When those coaches were ready - they got promoted, and have been equally successful as their non-minority counterparts.

CU screwed up on the first five words of that last sentence. I don't have a problem with deliberate efforts to develop talent in under-represented minorities; I do have a problem with different standards of excellence for them. I also recognize that the distinction between those things is sometimes fuzzy and gray - even so, there are some things that are clearly on one side or the other. What Mac & Embree are calling for right now is definitely on the wrong side of that line.
 
I really dislike that red on the left side of the screen. It draws my eyes that way and I don't like the way it makes me feel inside, am I a racist against red? I think so...
 
That article is disgraceful and wrong. Playing the race card is wrong.

When schools start firing black coaches who are winning, then there is a problem. Until then, stop making excuses and grow up.
 
skibum said:
It's rare that you can point to off-field, social type issues and say that the NFL is well ahead of the college game. But in the advancement of minority coaches, they are. The reason they are is because about 20 years ago they recognized exactly what azbuff is saying here. Instead of going out and hiring minority coaches for sake of hiring minority coaches, what they did was make a league wide effort to train, mentor and develop young minority coaches.

When those coaches were ready - they got promoted, and have been equally successful as their non-minority counterparts.

CU screwed up on the first five words of that last sentence. I don't have a problem with deliberate efforts to develop talent in under-represented minorities; I do have a problem with different standards of excellence for them. I also recognize that the distinction between those things is sometimes fuzzy and gray - even so, there are some things that are clearly on one side or the other. What Mac & Embree are calling for right now is definitely on the wrong side of that line.
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:yeahthat:

The NFL has the luxury of no restrictions on the number of coachs (How many do the Donks have? 20 or so? CU has 8!) AND is awash in funds to pay for their minority mentoring program. Too, these minority NFL coachs are well-paid and not generally subject to the usual scut-work that all grad assistants are routinely put through(for very little or no pay), since pro teams have tons of jock-sniffing "wannabees", more than happy to pick up towels, equipment, clean locker rooms and fetch coffee and water bottles, just to be associated with their favorite team! No wonder the bulk of motivated black coachs tends to stay in the NFL.

Unfortunately, the NCAA has not made a similar effort. Maybe its time they do, using all their revenues to fund a program like that. Fund a position at each FBS school, on the NCAA's nickel, to create a pool of qualified applicants.

( For comparison, look at "overnight sensations" like Tad Boyle and what he had to go through to reach his current level of success. And he was well-funded through his post-grad real life job, thus he was not having to raise a family on the pittance he was paid as an assistant. Still, he had to move around and put up with some real sketchy places!)

If Mac was truly serious about black coachs, he should be camped in the offices of the NCAA urging this very thing. Not wailing about the least qualified head coach, black or white, evah; or running around "guilting" men into going to mass religious rallies! WaterBottle Jon's got a million bucks coming, maybe he should use some of that for the same purpose?
 
Walter White said:
That article is disgraceful and wrong. Playing the race card is wrong.

When schools start firing black coaches who are winning, then there is a problem. Until then, stop making excuses and grow up.
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What's wrong about the article? The writer says he doesn't believe race played a role in Embree being fired. Instead he's making a broader point about whites being overly defensive and using terms like "race card" every time racial discrimination is mentioned. Seems accurate to me.
 
Ozbuff said:
What's wrong about the article? The writer says he doesn't believe race played a role in Embree being fired. Instead he's making a broader point about whites being overly defensive and using terms like "race card" every time racial discrimination is mentioned. Seems accurate to me.
Click to expand...

Do you realize how far the pendulum has swung on the race issue for blacks? “Racist” and “racism”—serious accusations—are thrown around with such frequency and with such irresponsibility that it’s become a joke. Just like with Embree in this specific situation.

It’s wrong and sends the wrong message to kids—you’re entitled and it’s never your fault. Instead of being accountable and responsible, blame everything on racism. Look for racism everywhere and make serious accusations at will, even in a subtle way by “raising the issue”, without any worry of repercussion or accountability for your false claim. It’s dirty and wrong.
 
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Walter White said:
Do you realize how far the pendulum has swung on the race issue for blacks? “Racist” and “racism”—serious accusations—are thrown around with such frequency and with such irresponsibility that it’s become a joke. Just like with Embree in this specific situation.

It’s wrong and sends the wrong message to kids—you’re entitled and it’s never your fault. Instead of being accountable and responsible, blame everything on racism. Look for racism everywhere and make serious accusations at will, even in a subtle way by “raising the issue”, without any worry of repercussion or accountability for your false claim. It’s dirty and wrong.
Click to expand...

If what you're saying is that things have improved in terms of race relations, I whole heartedly agree. I disagree, however, that racism is thrown around with too much frequency. Not sure where you get that impression. Sure there are examples like Embree where his firing, I don't believe, was based on race (again, the author of the article also said that race wasn't a factor in Embree's firing). I just don't see the same problems that you do where racism is used as an accusation so often that it's become a joke. I also think using the term "race card" is offensive as it suggests exactly what you're suggesting (i.e. racism isn't a problem, the only problem is people compaining of it). Guess we'll just have to respectfully disagree.
 
I think someone would have to be blind to believe that racism isn't prevalent still in our society (and I think everyone on this board knows this). The question becomes one of trying to determine when it has come into play in a given situation. If you can't do this, then anything can be blamed on "racism".

In this case, several things seems to argue against it.

#1. The school hired Embree. Racists don't hire black folks to begin with and put them in positions of authority and responsibility (and then allow them to bring in a staff with more African-Americans)

#2. The black guys we brought in are CU HEROES. These aren't people we think LESS of...these are people we admire and hope they can translate the qualities we admire from their playing days into their coaching tenures.

#3. There was no arguing how poor the product on the field was. No one was viewing it through a racist lens when the CU football program was labelled as perhaps the worst school in Div 1 (and statistically the worst team in the program's 120+ year history).

#4. Would fans and donors and ticket buyers (the people that likely forced the Administration to act) have been any more patient with a white coach who had the same record and whose team played as poorly as our did these last 2 years? Would Bohn and co. have turned a deaf ear to fan anger if the coach had been white...but decided to act in this case because the coach wasn't white?

The only evidence anyone seems to point to to back up the idea that racism was involved (correct me if I am wrong about this...I might be) is that Jon didn't get as long as Hawkins got. But Hawkins got TOO LONG (as many of us said at the time and many now acknowledge). In addition, the damage Hawkins did was severe enough to put anyone who succeeded him on a short leash because the program is in free fall and can't take another year or two of this (Jon may have been able to turn this around...but going from what we've seen so far, if you were in Vegas, you would have to bet against it). In addition, Jon's coaching track record had nothing in it to show that he could pull this off. In fact, his lack of experience (along with his staff's) was one of the thing that everyone had been nervous about at his hiring. The results ont he field seemed to confirm those fears and dash our hopes that Jon's excellent character and heart and love of the school (and his obvious smarts) could overcome such impediments.

I don't know anyone who didn't want Jon to succeed. We would have had a CU coach for life had he been able to make this work. Bohn and Co. would be hailed as saviors. "The Family" would be running the show. I don't think anyone cared about Jon's race at all in this situation (if anything, many of us thought it would be a plus for CU. It was time we had a black football coach...it was good for recruits to see we did too. There were no downsides to this).

Jon was fired because we (fans, ticket buyers, donors, etc.) were all up in arms about it. We were up in arms about it because we were putting the worst product on the field in our football history (and digging the hole that we have been in since 2001 even deeper...making the climb out even harder...).

I just don't see the evidence for racism here...even though I freely acknowledge that it's a problem in society...and that the coaching ranks are very underrepresented by African-Americans. But a racist A.D. and Administration does'nt hire an African-American coach and staff to begin with...
 
1989Buff said:
I think someone would have to be blind to believe that racism isn't prevalent still in our society (and I think everyone on this board knows this). The question becomes one of trying to determine when it has come into play in a given situation. If you can't do this, then anything can be blamed on "racism".

In this case, several things seems to argue against it.

#1. The school hired Embree. Racists don't hire black folks to begin with and put them in positions of authority and responsibility (and then allow them to bring in a staff with more African-Americans)

#2. The black guys we brought in are CU HEROES. These aren't people we think LESS of...these are people we admire and hope they can translate the qualities we admire from their playing days into their coaching tenures.

#3. There was no arguing how poor the product on the field was. No one was viewing it through a racist lens when the CU football program was labelled as perhaps the worst school in Div 1 (and statistically the worst team in the program's 120+ year history).

#4. Would fans and donors and ticket buyers (the people that likely forced the Administration to act) have been any more patient with a white coach who had the same record and whose team played as poorly as our did these last 2 years? Would Bohn and co. have turned a deaf ear to fan anger if the coach had been white...but decided to act in this case because the coach wasn't white?

The only evidence anyone seems to point to to back up the idea that racism was involved (correct me if I am wrong about this...I might be) is that Jon didn't get as long as Hawkins got. But Hawkins got TOO LONG (as many of us said at the time and many now acknowledge). In addition, the damage Hawkins did was severe enough to put anyone who succeeded him on a short leash because the program is in free fall and can't take another year or two of this (Jon may have been able to turn this around...but going from what we've seen so far, if you were in Vegas, you would have to bet against it). In addition, Jon's coaching track record had nothing in it to show that he could pull this off. In fact, his lack of experience (along with his staff's) was one of the thing that everyone had been nervous about at his hiring. The results ont he field seemed to confirm those fears and dash our hopes that Jon's excellent character and heart and love of the school (and his obvious smarts) could overcome such impediments.

I don't know anyone who didn't want Jon to succeed. We would have had a CU coach for life had he been able to make this work. Bohn and Co. would be hailed as saviors. "The Family" would be running the show. I don't think anyone cared about Jon's race at all in this situation (if anything, many of us thought it would be a plus for CU. It was time we had a black football coach...it was good for recruits to see we did too. There were no downsides to this).

Jon was fired because we (fans, ticket buyers, donors, etc.) were all up in arms about it. We were up in arms about it because we were putting the worst product on the field in our football history (and digging the hole that we have been in since 2001 even deeper...making the climb out even harder...).

I just don't see the evidence for racism here...even though I freely acknowledge that it's a problem in society...and that the coaching ranks are very underrepresented by African-Americans. But a racist A.D. and Administration does'nt hire an African-American coach and staff to begin with...
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I agree. To think that racism has simply evaporated is silly. It's equally true that Embree being fired isn't based on race. The only wrinkle I would add to what you've said is that the fact that Bohn is given more time is a big factor here. I suspect that a lot of Embree's supporters wouldn't be as upset if Bohn had been fired as well. The fact that Bohn, who has overseen 7 of the worst years in recent CU football history, is given more time while Embree was only given two years is a significant factor.
 
I don't see racism in my day to day life. Sometimes I even think racism is dead. But then I pop in Call of Duty and play online.
 
Ozbuff said:
I agree. To think that racism has simply evaporated is silly. It's equally true that Embree being fired isn't based on race. The only wrinkle I would add to what you've said is that the fact that Bohn is given more time is a big factor here. I suspect that a lot of Embree's supporters wouldn't be as upset if Bohn had been fired as well. The fact that Bohn, who has overseen 7 of the worst years in recent CU football history, is given more time while Embree was only given two years is a significant factor.
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So if Bohn had been fired along with Embree we wouldn't have any of these charges of racism? Interesting. Maybe your right (but if so...perhaps that raises other questions).

It's hard to make a judgement on the Bohn thing due to the uncertainly over things like the rumors he wanted to fire Hawkins earlier...or the Buffs4life stuff (concerning the alleged demand that a CU family member be hired, etc.). It's hard to decide how much of a free hand he had in the decisions that upset us so that he's made. Surely this is his last chance though.

If, however, he didn't want Hawkins to get his last year...and never wanted to hire Embree to begin with...should his head roll because those things occurred? (again...I have no knowledge over the truth of such things...just repeating what's been said here and elsewhere).

Surely many would have been less than satisfied if Bohn was fired, but Embree left as coach, right? What would the likelihood be that a new AD would have kept Jon?

I am not a Bohn supporter. I do find it interesting that you are suggesting that the racism charges might not be as big a deal if Bohn were dumped too. I don't know what I think about that...but I find the concept interesting.
 
I should also add that if it is true what Embree says about Bohn continually telling him (right up to the end) that "we are in this for the long haul" etc. (concerning the A.D.s backing of the coach long term) then I find that troubling...and it helps explain another reason Embree might feel so betrayed. But, again, if true, this is more an example of slimy executive management behavior (not uncommon at all by the way) than racism. Also if true, it makes Bohn even less of the sort of character I want representing CU (but at the moment these are nothing but allegations by a disgruntled employee. Nothing has been confirmed or substantiated).
 
Orr said:
Why is that a problem in your mind?
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LOL - only a problem in that the comment Slade was referring to obviously incorrect.

I went to school with Chris. He's a funny guy. Hope he continues to move up in the sports reporting world.
 
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