Has the "tipping point" been reached with NCAA enforcement?

[Buffnik]

Very interesting article from CBS Sports that was posted on a couple other boards today:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...this-a-warning-ncaa-isnt-playing-nice-anymore

 

[Darth Snow]

Let's see what punishments get handed out first... Gtech is the perfect NCAA target - visible, but not a big cheese. If OSU, Auburn, and Oregon go down... Then yes.

 

[Burrito]

I hope so.

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

Let's see what punishments get handed out first... Gtech is the perfect NCAA target - visible, but not a big cheese. If OSU, Auburn, and Oregon go down... Then yes.

Not sure I'd throw oRegano in with that group, even considering the recent "donations" from Nike. They're pretty johnny-come-lately in terms of success on the national scene. The others, and adding in u$c, are a different story.

 

[CUFan]

I have figure that NCAA understands there is a possibility that its largest revenue generators have considered or are considering leaving the NCAA. It seems to me this almost has to play a role in the the prospective punishments for Auburn, Ohio State and maybe Tech. I can't imagine it will impact their decision on Oregon at all and if they can prove Oregon did wrong I will not be surprised if they get hammered.

The NCAA must make it seem like they are in control, but will they try and balance that with keeping the big schools happy? The NCAA is in a tough position at the moment. I hope they punish accordingly, but given their treatment of Colorado in the past, I have zero faith in the NCAA.

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

I disagree with a bit of his commentary.

The idea that any player being investigated should be immediately declared ineligible is laughable. Why on earth would a school do that? What penalty has Auburn received for playing ineligible players? What penalty has Ohio State received for playing ineligible players? Vacating wins? You call that a penalty?!! Southern Cal had their BCS title taken away recently -- so what? It is still USC's title. OU didn't suddenly get another national championship just because USC cheated. USC is still national champion.

Until the NCAA gets some real teeth, this is all much a do about nothing.

 

[MtnBuff]

Interesting contrast and times. I just watched the ESPN 30 for 30, Pony Excess, about the SMU program and their recieving the death penalty and what happened to the program afterwords.

There is a lot of speculation that the NCAA will never again give a school the death penalty, I'm not so sure. SMU was investigated, found to be cheating, investigated again, and found to be still cheating, promised to stop and continued to cheat. The amounts of money were significant, this was not tatoos, or even a few hundred bucks, this was tens and even hundreds of thousands of dollars. It also had a clear money trail back to the athletic department including the athletic director, the head coach, and the governing board of the university. If we ever had a situation that was this blatant I don't think the NCAA would have a choice.

In current times, if for example USC was found to be in blatant violation of the rules I don't see where the NCAA would have much of a choice. At this time I don't think that tOSU or Oregon has to worry about it because neither is already under major sanctions but again if they continued after recieving sanctions the NCAA might be forced to act to the extreem level.

I do think that the current USC sanctions may set the bar however, I think that the days of 5 schollies and a one year bowl ban for all the the most minor violations may be over. tOSU could be looking at three years, ten schollies less per year. I wouln't even be surprised if the NCAA hit a school for an entire class saying no schollies given for an entire year of new players and 4 years with a maximum of 60 or 70 schollies.


I do think the dividing line for the severity of punishment is how much the school cleans out their administration and coaching. I can see USC getting hammered, they have tried to delay the sanctions, push the limits on the sanctions, etc. If they should be found to have continuing violations I could see the NCAA really nailing them.

 

[somebody]

I disagree with a bit of his commentary.

The idea that any player being investigated should be immediately declared ineligible is laughable. Why on earth would a school do that? What penalty has Auburn received for playing ineligible players? What penalty has Ohio State received for playing ineligible players? Vacating wins? You call that a penalty?!! Southern Cal had their BCS title taken away recently -- so what? It is still USC's title. OU didn't suddenly get another national championship just because USC cheated. USC is still national champion.

Until the NCAA gets some real teeth, this is all much a do about nothing.

Here's an example of a punishment with teeth, comparable to the NCAA death penalty. If the NCAA would ban and fine coaches and ADs, they might pay more attention.

"Rybka, the chess-playing computer program that won the past four World Computer Chess Championship titles, was summarily stripped of its silicon crown this week amid charges its programmer plagiarized the software of two rival programs. David Levy, president of the International Computer Games Assocation (ICGA), announced the action against Rybka on Wednesday and imposed a lifetime ban on Czech-American programmer and Massachusetts Institute of Technologyhttp://m.washingtontimes.com/topics/massachusetts-institute-of-technology/ graduate Vasik Rajlichhttp://m.washingtontimes.com/topics/vasik-rajlich/. He accused Mr. Rajlichhttp://m.washingtontimes.com/topics/vasik-rajlich/ of ripping off the coding of two other software programs marketed as Crafty and Fruit. Mr. Levy also demanded the return of trophies and prize money the program won."

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

Here's an example of a punishment with teeth, comparable to the NCAA death penalty. If the NCAA would ban and fine coaches and ADs, they might pay more attention.

"Rybka, the chess-playing computer program that won the past four World Computer Chess Championship titles, was summarily stripped of its silicon crown this week amid charges its programmer plagiarized the software of two rival programs. David Levy, president of the International Computer Games Assocation (ICGA), announced the action against Rybka on Wednesday and imposed a lifetime ban on Czech-American programmer and Massachusetts Institute of Technology graduate Vasik Rajlich. He accused Mr. Rajlich of ripping off the coding of two other software programs marketed as Crafty and Fruit. Mr. Levy also demanded the return of trophies and prize money the program won."

Now we're talking.

The bowl revenues are taken in by the conferences. After expenses are paid, the remaining revenues are split amongst the various teams. If one of the teams had to pay back their entire share - that would be a significant penalty. $2 or $3 million to one of the BCS conference schools.

 

[DBT]

I think even more shanannigans goes on in basketball than football.

 

[Darian3Hagan]

I think even more shanannigans goes on in basketball than football.

I swear to God, I'll pistol whip the next guy who says "shanannanigans"!

 

[leftybuff]

The penalties meted out to SC were the first time a big time program, aside from SMU (who was a big time program back then), got something other than an OU like slap on th ewrist. IMO, however, they still soft pedaled the SC deal, Bush was getting paid (maybe not cash in hand) but paid noetheless, same with OJ Mayo. tOSU and Orygun, and Auburn for that matter, should be in their sights and subject to pnealties at least as harsh as what SC got, if not more so. I really doubt it will happen though. The NCAA is, above all, a political animal and they won't bite the hand that feeds them too hard. The big boys will be able to cheat at a lower marginal cost than everyobdy else, they will continue to do so, and will remain the big boys because, at least in part, of that advantage.

If and when the NCAA gets down on some big programs with sanctions that have real teethe and shows a pattern of changing it's big boy fanny kissing ways, I'll beileve them then. Until then they are just a bunch of hypocrites making big bucks off the myth of the student athlete.

 

[Buffnik]

 

[MtnBuff]

The penalties meted out to SC were the first time a big time program, aside from SMU (who was a big time program back then), got something other than an OU like slap on th ewrist. IMO, however, they still soft pedaled the SC deal, Bush was getting paid (maybe not cash in hand) but paid noetheless, same with OJ Mayo. tOSU and Orygun, and Auburn for that matter, should be in their sights and subject to pnealties at least as harsh as what SC got, if not more so. I really doubt it will happen though. The NCAA is, above all, a political animal and they won't bite the hand that feeds them too hard. The big boys will be able to cheat at a lower marginal cost than everyobdy else, they will continue to do so, and will remain the big boys because, at least in part, of that advantage.

If and when the NCAA gets down on some big programs with sanctions that have real teethe and shows a pattern of changing it's big boy fanny kissing ways, I'll beileve them then. Until then they are just a bunch of hypocrites making big bucks off the myth of the student athlete.

NCAA won't do anything unless they have to, especially against the high profile, high revenue teams. As you state correctly however, the NCAA is a political animal. It didn't want to do what it did to SC but was forced to by continuing media attention.

The difference now compared to past decades and eras of cheaters is the internet. USC got nailed because Yahoo! Sports dug it's teeth in and wouldn't let go, the tOSU situation won't die because of internet news sources and message boards, the same will happen with Oregon and Auburn. It is much harder now to slide things under the table. As long as the fans of opposing teams have access to a keyboard the NCAA won't be able to do "business as usual." That means that the NCAA will have to take some steps to show that they are serious. What won't change is that the NCAA is likely to dish out punishment in an inverse relationship to the prominence historically and financially of a program. This means that Oregon in the end will get it worse than tOSU and Boise is likely to get hammered even though their violations seem to be fairly minor compared to the other schools discussed.

 

[Buffsoldier]

 

[BuffLuke80]

Pony Excess was on again, I can still watch it eventhough Ive seen it 100 times. Imho, I doubt we'll ever see the death penalty again. No way will you see it with a cash cow like a U$C. Only way I could see them cleaning it up so to speak is to penalize in a few areas. Hit them where it hurts the most, the wallet, fine the **** out of them. Vacating wins is all bull****, that doesnt send a message. Fines, taking scholarships, holding the people who cheat responsible. Yes Im talking about coaches too, suspend them for a season or so. Can the Ncaa give fines and punish coaches, boosters, etc? Asking cause Im not really sure. Doing all that might not work either but maybe people would at least think twice before engaging in dirty recruiting. Oregon should take a lesson from SMU. Going national in recruiting is a risky thing if you dont have a ton of tradition to back you. SMU did but a ways back.

 

[MtnBuff]

Pony Excess was on again, I can still watch it eventhough Ive seen it 100 times. Imho, I doubt we'll ever see the death penalty again. No way will you see it with a cash cow like a U$C. Only way I could see them cleaning it up so to speak is to penalize in a few areas. Hit them where it hurts the most, the wallet, fine the **** out of them. Vacating wins is all bull****, that doesnt send a message. Fines, taking scholarships, holding the people who cheat responsible. Yes Im talking about coaches too, suspend them for a season or so. Can the Ncaa give fines and punish coaches, boosters, etc? Asking cause Im not really sure. Doing all that might not work either but maybe people would at least think twice before engaging in dirty recruiting. Oregon should take a lesson from SMU. Going national in recruiting is a risky thing if you dont have a ton of tradition to back you. SMU did but a ways back.

I don't completely discount the death penalty but it would have to be a situation like SMU were the school completely disregards the rules and continues with major violations in defiance of the NCAA (by the way I could see some SC booster being arrogant enough to do so and the school being greedy enough to let it happen.) It is highly unlikely but not entirely impossible.

You are right that the only thing that will truly dent the cheating is to hit people in the pocketbook. Schools (and conferences) forced to return their bowl revenues and even some TV revenues, probation including not receiving TV revenues, major scholly cuts and a biggy, all coaches having signed an agreement that says that if they are caught with repeated violations they can be suspended from coaching at any NCAA school for a period of time and if they go to another school after the penalties and are caught violating again the school will be penalized as if the prior violations belonged to them since they hired a coach who was a known cheater.

This would put a big crimp in the style of guys like Jackie Sherrell, Lou Holtz, and others who make a lot of money, leave a program in shambles, and go repeat the same issues at other schools.

 

[Maxer]

That means that the NCAA will have to take some steps to show that they are serious.

True.

What won't change is that the NCAA is likely to dish out punishment in an inverse relationship to the prominence historically and financially of a program. This means that Oregon in the end will get it worse than tOSU and Boise is likely to get hammered even though their violations seem to be fairly minor compared to the other schools discussed.

You guys are about nothing over here if not "tradition" -- but think for a minute what tradition means, in relation to college football -- it means lots of boosters who care, and donors who are rich and give a lot of money (and are able to make trouble/draw attention to the NCAA). There is at least one major case of a "traditional power" (USC) that got hammered -- dealing a blow to your theory.

If you think Oregon doesn't have either of those things because they didn't beat Army 6-3 in 1924 or whatever, you're kidding yourself. "Traditional programs" in college football take a lot less time to establish, and to tear down. It's about boosters, either in the aggregate or the individual, and as long as Phil Knight continues to draw breath, Oregon will be treated similarly to Ohio St., USC, etc etc.