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If the Pac-12 could do it over again, should it have taken Okie & Okie Lite?
- Thread starter Buffnik
- Start date
liverflukes
Resident Bear
No.
It wasn't an option? They voted on it. http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsport...homa-oklahoma-state-surprised-by-pac-12-snub/
Lukeasaurus
Well-Known Member
Interesting. I didn't know it was an option either. I've always like Oklahoma. Historic program able to rival the boisterous Texas . I think a question is if Colorado had to do it again should we have stayed in the big 12
Lt.Col.FrankSlade
Well-Known Member
CU was an outsider in the Big 12.
Unfortunately, CU would have been more competitive these past few years in the Big 12.
Absolutely yes.
L Buff
Commissar of the Albuffs Collective Left
First of all ... I question your premise re football. Our program has been in terrible shape largely since Gary left and has sucked in both conferences we've been in since then (with the possible exception of 2007). Plus the resurgence of KSU and the emergence of TCU and their entry into the Big XII would have continued to make us a bottom-feeder if we had stayed. Not to mention the entry of WVU.
Regarding basketball (the other major sport that is relevant) we've been very competitive in the Pac 12, and would have certainly held our own in the Big XII. But I just think we're a better fit in the Pac 12 and I'm glad we made the move.
Regarding the OP, I'm ambivalent. Would have increased the profile of the conference nationally (and would have represented a great FU to Texass) ... but it's not like OU and Okie Lite are having great seasons and seem to be programs that are in a state of limbo right now.
Lt.Col.FrankSlade
Well-Known Member
It would be nice to be playing Kansas and Iowa State in football every year.
OU wasn't going anywhere without Texas. Texas to the PAC would have been a disaster for the PAC. OSU goes wherever OU goes, so the PAC would have had to take all three.
SD Buff
Club Member
I was told it never actually got to a vote b/c at the time there was practically no support for it. The Presidents already got what they wanted with the CCG and the new TV deal. They didn't want the cluster **** of a 14 team conference as there was no guarantee their move would force UT's hand and the LHN issue. Didn't stop from all the rumors being floated it was Colorado who blocked the move. Had a fun year arguing that one with the dirt burglars.
Was it a mistake? I would have been fine with a PAC 16 b/c I think it would have created the best conference in the country or at the very least stemmed the constant SEC fellatio. Also don't believe Texas would have the same stroke in a PAC 16. But with no guarantee of Texas - I am 100% in agreement not taking OU and Lite to make a cluster **** 14 team conference. The CA schools would still want to play each other (although they may be realizing that is a mistake) Who is getting kicked out of the original PAC 8? Or would it be the 6 in the North/West + Utah and having UCLA and USC in the South/East?
Wouldn't have worked.
BuffaloChuck
Member
Buff, there are two issues - TV dollars and opening the recruiting doors. OU is aware that East Coast is the ticket to big TV dollars, not West Coast - any 'late' game on the West Coast loses 90% of East-of-Mississippi TV sets.
This is everyone's concern, by the way.
But the Recruiting Door that OU has to the state of Texas is vast, and historic. No school has more Texas players getting out-of-state tuitions than those two Okla universities. For the Calif-centric recruiting schools to bring in two teams that didn't bleed more out of Calif talent would have been an answer to the entire Pac-XX's prayers. PLUS they could have opened up the Dallas-Houston territories with the claim of playing 'in the neighborhood, too'.
I think CU's "LA feed zone" was a big drawback for the Pac Recruiters but, fortunately, with Hawkins ushering in the Darrell Scott Debacle, I think the other Pac recruiters laughed and said, "Sure, bring CU in - they won't be any problem - we'll be milking Darrell Scott's tenure for a decade." Hand out newspaper clippings and let those do the work against CU recruiting.
I think the Pac would have enjoyed Big 12 schools into their fold. But the TV dollars are much bigger and greener for East Coast Prime Time, not West.
By the way, I don't think there are mistakes or correct calls - there are going to be new waves of changes come thru, and maybe another one after that before they settle into something sensible.
This is everyone's concern, by the way.
But the Recruiting Door that OU has to the state of Texas is vast, and historic. No school has more Texas players getting out-of-state tuitions than those two Okla universities. For the Calif-centric recruiting schools to bring in two teams that didn't bleed more out of Calif talent would have been an answer to the entire Pac-XX's prayers. PLUS they could have opened up the Dallas-Houston territories with the claim of playing 'in the neighborhood, too'.
I think CU's "LA feed zone" was a big drawback for the Pac Recruiters but, fortunately, with Hawkins ushering in the Darrell Scott Debacle, I think the other Pac recruiters laughed and said, "Sure, bring CU in - they won't be any problem - we'll be milking Darrell Scott's tenure for a decade." Hand out newspaper clippings and let those do the work against CU recruiting.
I think the Pac would have enjoyed Big 12 schools into their fold. But the TV dollars are much bigger and greener for East Coast Prime Time, not West.
By the way, I don't think there are mistakes or correct calls - there are going to be new waves of changes come thru, and maybe another one after that before they settle into something sensible.
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CVilleBuff
Well-Known Member
I think a foothold in CST would have done us some good. Wouldn't have minded a couple Big8'ers being with us. We already have ASU, Oregon, Wazzu, Oregon St and Utah so we aren't exactly the Ivy League.
Just what we needed: a 10am starting time.
FLounder
Think Positive and life will be Positive.
... We have the Arizona schools.
I see you read my long post on TV in that other thread. :smile2:
As much as it pains me to say it, had we had Oklahoma and or Texas (puke) in the conference we would have put the Pac12 on TV in two of the three major recruiting states instead of just one. As B&G pointed out; recruits watch games and many have no clue who CU is. The other effect the move would have had was the P12Net being on a lot more cable systems would put more pressure on DTV to pay up.
BuffaloChuck
Member
Academically, I suspect OU and Okla State have as many or more endowed scholarships than most Pac-12 schools do. That's Big Oil Country, with huge petro-engineering grad numbers. Their TV advertising hawks those high numbers along with high national-merit attendees - but then, most colleges claim those as 'high', too. But compared to the industries that are regional to OU and Okla State, wanna compare income-levels for skiers or surfers to Big Oil grads?
Buffskier
Club Member
Voted "No" for the selfish reasons of CU. I don't think they would have come alone (utexas and a&m (still in the B12 at the time)) and think they would have made OU, OSU, CU, UU, ASU, UA, UT, and A&M in an eastern division; with the old pac-8 in the pacific division. Basically, we would be playing in a smaller B12 with a few games on the west coast, but missing out on potential wins against Kansas, Iowa State each season. I think we would have been stuck in the middle and wouldn't really see much of the benefit of Cali recruiting.
Remember that UT, Oklahoma, Okie State, A&M and Utah were all right around the top 25 when the conference shakedown happened, so I think that CU would have gotten screwed and would have had the toughest division in all of CFB (just like it could be argued that they are in now)...
Remember that UT, Oklahoma, Okie State, A&M and Utah were all right around the top 25 when the conference shakedown happened, so I think that CU would have gotten screwed and would have had the toughest division in all of CFB (just like it could be argued that they are in now)...
Pac will prob take four teams from b12 to make two conferences. CU will be in a conference that will essentially be the same as the Big12. Just like home again. The Pac8 will be the real Pac Conference with occasional "OOC" games against the affiliated Big12/Southwest Conference/Big 8 teams.
How many times does this "theory" have to be shot down before it stops being brought up again?
The Pac isn't interested in UT. At all. The Longhorn network is a non-starter, and the whorns aren't giving it up. Aside from all the other reasons this will never happen, that trumps them all. The Pac isn't interested in UT. UT isn't interested in the Pac.
And...
Without UT, there aren't any teams in the B12 that bring enough to the table to make it worthwhile to expand.
So...
The idea of adding four B12 teams is a dead and buried idea with zero chance of ever happening.
Totally agree. Especially when the Pac-12 business model is making sure games are on the fewest tv screens possible.