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If UNLV gets its football stadium, should the Pac-12 add them?

Should the Pac add UNLV if it gets its stadium built?

  • Total voters
    125
Buffnik

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
Club Member
Junta Member
1004761706%2520STADIUM_FOLO_013016c_002_1.jpg

1004761706%2520STADIUM_FOLO_013016c_003_1.jpg

64k seat stadium that would be shared with the Raiders if they decided to move to Las Vegas. Stadium is up for approval this year. If construction begins on schedule in 2017, it would open in 2020. That would be one of the 5 biggest stadiums in the conference.
  • Nevada is about to cross 3 million in population. (All other states that size have a BCS program except Connecticut.)
  • Las Vegas was 29th in US metro population in 2015 (2.1 million) and on pace to move past Cincinnati, Sacramento & Pittsburgh within the next few years.
  • In terms of national name recognition, UNLV is a marquee brand from the west. (For basketball, which has been the issue.)
  • Academic research & rep was a problem. (But just built a medical school & have been on a 10-year mission to become a Tier One research university.)
If they get that stadium, I think that this has to happen. I don't know who the other team would be, though. That's the challenge.
 
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I came around to adding UNLV in the other thread we have going. Nevada is one of the fastest growing states in the country and especially Las Vegas seems to be booming.
 
I don't see them as a major university. Apparently they are trying to get there. UNLV doesn't appeal except for the road
Trip part. I would certainly prefer them to KU or Okie light
 
64,000 seats would mean about 44,000 empty seats, it would make the old SDSU games at Jack Murphy look like dynamic events.

Maybe adding the Raiders would help change the culture of the area. Right now most people there don't care about any college sports except maybe UNLV basketball.

In almost every other way though it does make sense.
 
MtnBuff said:
64,000 seats would mean about 44,000 empty seats, it would make the old SDSU games at Jack Murphy look like dynamic events.

Maybe adding the Raiders would help change the culture of the area. Right now most people there don't care about any college sports except maybe UNLV basketball.

In almost every other way though it does make sense.
Click to expand...

Yep. UNLV actually has more season ticket holders for basketball than for football. Obviously, there's some sort of bump if they're playing Pac games in a brand new stadium. Plus, I'd guess they would get the largest visitor attendance number in the conference. But they'd have a long way to go to get to where they were consistently drawing 50k+.

Here are the crazy numbers on UNLV attendance: http://www.unlvrebels.com/sponsorship/img-numbers.html

7,700 + . . . football season ticket holders
Average home football attendance . . . 29,000 +

8,900 + . . . Men's basketball season ticket holders
Average home attendance for men's basketball . . . 11,500 +
 
Buffnik said:
Yep. UNLV actually has more season ticket holders for basketball than for football. Obviously, there's some sort of bump if they're playing Pac games in a brand new stadium. Plus, I'd guess they would get the largest visitor attendance number in the conference. But they'd have a long way to go to get to where they were consistently drawing 50k+.

Here are the crazy numbers on UNLV attendance: http://www.unlvrebels.com/sponsorship/img-numbers.html

7,700 + . . . football season ticket holders
Average home football attendance . . . 29,000 +

8,900 + . . . Men's basketball season ticket holders
Average home attendance for men's basketball . . . 11,500 +
Click to expand...

Good stuff.

The 29,000 is higher than I remember it being so maybe they are on the right track there as well.
 
buff4bcs1985 said:
maybe bring UNLV and KU and break up Utah as our Travel partner give them UNLV and us KU
Click to expand...

We'd rival the ACC & B1G as a basketball conference with that move.

Similarly, staying in the west with SDSU, UNLV, UNM and Boise State would deliver crazy good hoops and probably wouldn't hurt the football product.
 
Like it or not, Vegas is a major metro area now. While the Presidents might oppose it, it wouldn't bother me.

UNLV and UNM are sleeping giants, IMO. So much potential in both schools.
 
How much do academics work into the equation? The PAC12 prides itself on it's academics, and is arguably the best P5 conference in that area (some may argue B1G). I don't see any schools listed in this post meeting PAC standards.
 
Unleash Hell said:
Doesn't matter, adding unlv to the PAC 12 would be like the sec adding Tulane
Click to expand...
Tulane is actually getting some consideration in these P5 expansion talks. The only thing holding them back really is the fact that it would take a lot of time for them to catch up competitively.
 
Bufffan68 said:
How much do academics work into the equation? The PAC12 prides itself on it's academics, and is arguably the best P5 conference in that area (some may argue B1G). I don't see any schools listed in this post meeting PAC standards.
Click to expand...

That is why Nik pointed out that UNLV is building a research hospital and is on their way to achieving a Tier 1 Research Institue designation.
 
Bufffan68 said:
How much do academics work into the equation? The PAC12 prides itself on it's academics, and is arguably the best P5 conference in that area (some may argue B1G). I don't see any schools listed in this post meeting PAC standards.
Click to expand...

Within the MPTZ, we don't have any more AAU members. So the academic focus would be on whether they are Tier 1 for research. It would be very hard for Pac-12 presidents to approve members that are not Tier 1. (All current Pac-12 members are Tier 1.) Within this, it's also important to note that research into agriculture is discounted by presidents as it is by the AAU, so any Ag schools that are Tier 1 may not really be looked at as such by the Pac-12 presidents. I'd posted this in another thread, but it bears repeating. Carnegie Foundation classifications from 2-1-16

R1 in Footprint (or pretty close to geographically contiguous - only including Big 12 & G5, no B1G or SEC)
Colorado State
Hawaii
Houston
Kansas (also AAU)
Kansas State
New Mexico
North Texas
Oklahoma
Rice (also AAU)
Texas Tech
Texas (also AAU)
Tulane (also AAU)

R2 in Footprint (high research, but don't currently cut it)
Baylor
BYU
Idaho
Louisiana-Lafayette
Nevada
New Mexico State
Oklahoma State
San Diego State
SMU
TCU
Tulsa
UNLV
Utah State
UTEP
UTSA
Wyoming

R3 (these are pretty much hopeless)
Air Force
Boise State
Fresno State
Louisiana-Monroe
Louisiana Tech
(I couldn't even find SJSU on the list)

Based on this, Pac-12 expansion within the existing basic footprint on academic research viability is probably Hawaii, New Mexico, CSU, Nevada, UNLV, Utah State and SDSU as worthy of consideration if they have an ongoing plan that's positioning them where they need to be on research. But none are AAU. The president wouldn't object to an R1, I don't think, so if Larry Scott pitched Hawaii & New Mexico for a Pac-14 they'd probably vote "yes" since both are flagship R1s that are focused on non-Ag research that fits well with the research focus of the rest of the Pac-12.

Best options for the presidents are actually the schools in the Big 12 footprint that they could snag. Kansas & Texas lead the list (AAU & R1). Oklahoma, Texas Tech and Houston would get a "yes" vote (R1). Tulane (AAU & R1) would be an easy "yes" from the presidents even though it would be a tough sell to the ADs and probably also be tough with the execs at PACN. Rice (AAU & R1) would also likely get a "yes" from the presidents, but is likely way too small of a school to be considered for a P5 conference.

My guess:

1. Hawaii causes too many travel problems and time zone problems for broadcast to be viable.
2. New Mexico and 1 of Nevada/UNLV are the best fits if they do some things the conference would require.
3. The money grab that the conference would support is in the states of Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas and Louisiana with the following candidates: KU, OU, UT, UH, TTU and Tulane.
 
I don't want Texas and I don't think Texas wants the PAC12 under any kind of rules that the PAC12 would accept.

I see the arguments for UNLV and for UNM and have advocated for UNM in the past.

My one and two would be Oklahoma and Kansas. As @Buffnik points out Kansas is already AAU. Oklahoma has been putting a lot of money and focus on upgrading their research status and their trying for AAU membership has been mentioned in serious tones.

If the PAC wanted to go to 16 those might be a solid 4 to put on top of the list.
 
Buffnik said:
Within the MPTZ, we don't have any more AAU members. So the academic focus would be on whether they are Tier 1 for research. It would be very hard for Pac-12 presidents to approve members that are not Tier 1. (All current Pac-12 members are Tier 1.) Within this, it's also important to note that research into agriculture is discounted by presidents as it is by the AAU, so any Ag schools that are Tier 1 may not really be looked at as such by the Pac-12 presidents. I'd posted this in another thread, but it bears repeating. Carnegie Foundation classifications from 2-1-16

R1 in Footprint (or pretty close to geographically contiguous - only including Big 12 & G5, no B1G or SEC)
Colorado State
Hawaii
Houston
Kansas (also AAU)
Kansas State
New Mexico
North Texas
Oklahoma
Rice (also AAU)
Texas Tech
Texas (also AAU)
Tulane (also AAU)

R2 in Footprint (high research, but don't currently cut it)
Baylor
BYU
Idaho
Louisiana-Lafayette
Nevada
New Mexico State
Oklahoma State
San Diego State
SMU
TCU
Tulsa
UNLV
Utah State
UTEP
UTSA
Wyoming

R3 (these are pretty much hopeless)
Air Force
Boise State
Fresno State
Louisiana-Monroe
Louisiana Tech
(I couldn't even find SJSU on the list)

Based on this, Pac-12 expansion within the existing basic footprint on academic research viability is probably Hawaii, New Mexico, CSU, Nevada, UNLV, Utah State and SDSU as worthy of consideration if they have an ongoing plan that's positioning them where they need to be on research. But none are AAU. The president wouldn't object to an R1, I don't think, so if Larry Scott pitched Hawaii & New Mexico for a Pac-14 they'd probably vote "yes" since both are flagship R1s that are focused on non-Ag research that fits well with the research focus of the rest of the Pac-12.

Best options for the presidents are actually the schools in the Big 12 footprint that they could snag. Kansas & Texas lead the list (AAU & R1). Oklahoma, Texas Tech and Houston would get a "yes" vote (R1). Tulane (AAU & R1) would be an easy "yes" from the presidents even though it would be a tough sell to the ADs and probably also be tough with the execs at PACN. Rice (AAU & R1) would also likely get a "yes" from the presidents, but is likely way too small of a school to be considered for a P5 conference.

My guess:

1. Hawaii causes too many travel problems and time zone problems for broadcast to be viable.
2. New Mexico and 1 of Nevada/UNLV are the best fits if they do some things the conference would require.
3. The money grab that the conference would support is in the states of Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas and Louisiana with the following candidates: KU, OU, UT, UH, TTU and Tulane.
Click to expand...
Great stuff as always Nik...but it makes me wonder...how the f do you have the time to do such great research? :)
 
Bufffan68 said:
Great stuff as always Nik...but it makes me wonder...how the f do you have the time to do such great research? :)
Click to expand...

Haha. A lot of the stuff I've posted related to things I've been working on with my actual job because I've been doing sales territory planning & needed all the state & metro population data. The R1/R2/AAU stuff is specific to my hobby on here, though. Plus, I type fast. :)
 
Buffnik said:
Haha. A lot of the stuff I've posted related to things I've been working on with my actual job because I've been doing sales territory planning & needed all the state & metro population data. The R1/R2/AAU stuff is specific to my hobby on here, though. Plus, I have to type really fast since Nikita thinks I'm working on my honey-do list . :)
Click to expand...

fify
 
Buffnik said:
Haha. A lot of the stuff I've posted related to things I've been working on with my actual job because I've been doing sales territory planning & needed all the state & metro population data. The R1/R2/AAU stuff is specific to my hobby on here, though. Plus, I type fast. :)
Click to expand...
Ah...that's good and I appreciate your posts...I thought you were just killing time between porn downloads :ROFLMAO:
 
The PAC already has a history of doing the unexpected. Decades ago they swooped in and took a couple of schools in lesser populated areas. Tucson and Phoenix were nothing more than snow bird destinations at the time.

After flirting with CU years earlier, the PAC again moved to get the school from Boulder - this time adding the yewts, another school in a less dense area.

I have to think that the powers that be have been looking at population trends, among other data points, each time an expansion has happened.

With this precedence in mind it wouldn't surprise me to see the conference add UNM and UNLV, especially if they can't make a big splash (read, one or more Texas schools).
 
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