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Is scoring way down in college basketball?

Buffnik

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
Club Member
Junta Member
I haven't seen the data or heard any of the talking heads talking about this, but it seems like scoring is trending down in a big way over how college hoops used to be. We don't seem to have teams playing Nellie Ball or run & gun, but it's more than that. Is seems that scores in the low 60s are more common than games played in the 70s or 80s.

Regardless of whether it's a trend or just a style that I'm noticing more, I don't like it. In football, I can appreciate a low scoring defensive battle. In fact, I prefer good football played in the teens to good football played in the 40s. But with basketball, I like my NBA games to go over 100 points and my NCAA games to go over 75.
 
Buffnik said:
I haven't seen the data or heard any of the talking heads talking about this, but it seems like scoring is trending down in a big way over how college hoops used to be. We don't seem to have teams playing Nellie Ball or run & gun, but it's more than that. Is seems that scores in the low 60s are more common than games played in the 70s or 80s.

Regardless of whether it's a trend or just a style that I'm noticing more, I don't like it. In football, I can appreciate a low scoring defensive battle. In fact, I prefer good football played in the teens to good football played in the 40s. But with basketball, I like my NBA games to go over 100 points and my NCAA games to go over 75.
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So, you don't like Boyle?
 
Buffnik said:
You can play great defense with a lot of scoring and a quick pace of basketball. That happens to be what Boyle believes in.
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I'm sure you knew this, but I was being snarky. We did have a top 5 scoring offense in the nation last year (or close to it) with Mr. Boyle.
 
It's the Wisconsin phenomenon (for the record, I am a Wisconsin alum). Bo Ryan saw that the teams that went full-out on offense didn't do very well, and coupling that with the fact that he just wasn't going to go head-to-head in recruiting with Duke and Kansas, and North Carolina (and Memphis, UConn, and Kentucky for other reasons), so he focused on points per possession. Score more points per possession than your opponent and you win. Lowering possessions can help that.

To make a long story short, look at the tempo ratings - Wisconsin is dead last, 345 out of 345 teams, but a top 20 team. Virginia has come out of nowhere under the tutelage of Tony Bennett, a former assistant at Wisconsin (with Bo Ryan) and son of former UW coach Dick Bennett. They are 340th in pace of play. Harvard is 327, coached by Tommy Amaker who got pummeled by Wisconsin when coaching at Michigan. St. Louis is having a great season, and they were coached by Brad Soderburg, another Wisconsin head coach. They are 304th in tempo. Rick Majerus is now the coach, but he has kept up the slow pace.
 
Darth Snow said:
I'm sure you knew this, but I was being snarky. We did have a top 5 scoring offense in the nation last year (or close to it) with Mr. Boyle.
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Don't be snarky when I'm coming off a birthday, pining for the good ole days, and bitching about how things are going to hell in a handbasket.
 
jcatcher said:
It's the Wisconsin phenomenon (for the record, I am a Wisconsin alum). Bo Ryan saw that the teams that went full-out on offense didn't do very well, and coupling that with the fact that he just wasn't going to go head-to-head in recruiting with Duke and Kansas, and North Carolina (and Memphis, UConn, and Kentucky for other reasons), so he focused on points per possession. Score more points per possession than your opponent and you win. Lowering possessions can help that.

To make a long story short, look at the tempo ratings - Wisconsin is dead last, 345 out of 345 teams, but a top 20 team. Virginia has come out of nowhere under the tutelage of Tony Bennett, a former assistant at Wisconsin (with Bo Ryan) and son of former UW coach Dick Bennett. They are 340th in pace of play. Harvard is 327, coached by Tommy Amaker who got pummeled by Wisconsin when coaching at Michigan. St. Louis is having a great season, and they were coached by Brad Soderburg, another Wisconsin head coach. They are 304th in tempo. Rick Majerus is now the coach, but he has kept up the slow pace.
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If you don't have a rooting interest in a game that's played that way, do you also find it nearly unwatchable?
 
Buffnik said:
If you don't have a rooting interest in a game that's played that way, do you also find it nearly unwatchable?
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I do have a rooting interest in Wisconsin games, and yes, I do find it nearly unwatchable. Wisconsin does seem to be on an uptick with recruiting (#30 player in 2012 class and #96 in 2013 committed) and both have said that part of their decision was a promise of increased pace.
 
today's players are so much bigger, longer, faster...the court is too small. lane too congested. game is far too much about the foul line. lots of bad shooting. make the court bigger, scoring will go up.
 
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jcatcher said:
It's the Wisconsin phenomenon (for the record, I am a Wisconsin alum). Bo Ryan saw that the teams that went full-out on offense didn't do very well, and coupling that with the fact that he just wasn't going to go head-to-head in recruiting with Duke and Kansas, and North Carolina (and Memphis, UConn, and Kentucky for other reasons), so he focused on points per possession. Score more points per possession than your opponent and you win. Lowering possessions can help that.

To make a long story short, look at the tempo ratings - Wisconsin is dead last, 345 out of 345 teams, but a top 20 team. Virginia has come out of nowhere under the tutelage of Tony Bennett, a former assistant at Wisconsin (with Bo Ryan) and son of former UW coach Dick Bennett. They are 340th in pace of play. Harvard is 327, coached by Tommy Amaker who got pummeled by Wisconsin when coaching at Michigan. St. Louis is having a great season, and they were coached by Brad Soderburg, another Wisconsin head coach. They are 304th in tempo. Rick Majerus is now the coach, but he has kept up the slow pace.
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They don't do well except for get past the Sweet 16 and win National Championships. Something Wiscy and Ryan don't do.
 
Well, UAB did beat SMU 47-28 last night. No, that is not a typo.
 
jgisland said:
For the first part of the year scoring was trending to an all time low, not sure if it has up ticked in conf play.

Year <40 >89 GP PPG

2004 20 167 1383 68.8
2005 30 163 1456 68.7
2006 35 232 1770 69.0
2007 37 219 1751 69.1
2008 31 165 1732 68.1
2009 28 227 1773 69.2
2010 36 177 1817 68.6
2011 42 169 1856 67.6
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Our scoring generally goes down in conference play, right? Teams are familiar with each other and there aren't the mismatches that allow a team to put 90 or 100 on an overmatched opponent while winning by 20.
 
Buffnik said:
Our scoring generally goes down in conference play, right? Teams are familiar with each other and there aren't the mismatches that allow a team to put 90 or 100 on an overmatched opponent while winning by 20.
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Your intuition is solid and it makes to sense to me, but there is usually a small increase in scoring in conf play vs non-conf play. I think I can pull CU's numbers pretty easily for the last 5 years (conf vs non conf) and see if that holds true for us.
 
Over the past 5 years CU has averaged just under 6 pts a game more out of conf than in conf.


YearOut of Conf PPGIn Conf PPG
2011/201270.768.2
2010/201184.874.2
2009/201076.573.44
2008/20096859
2007/20086460
5 YR AVG's72.866.9685.832
 
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