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Jon Wilner podcast on state of UCLA & USC

Totally agree with the take that USC recruits like a top 5 program but runs a Western Kentucky system when they need to have OLs who know how to go forward and an NFL style system with the guys they have. On top of that, there's a country club culture at the top with a lot of guys who enjoy the power of their positions and won't hire a HC who has autonomy over the program. That keeps them from landing the type of coach who can revamp everything that's wrong there and get them back to what they should be.

With UCLA, I agree that the program has a lot of talent - the cupboard was not bare - but that Chip's focused on a culture shift so he has pretty much divided the locker room while not playing many of his more talented players. Instead, he's going with "his guys" who are mostly new freshmen. I expect this season to be a train wreck and for it to take a few years for him to get that rolling. He's got better assistants than what's at USC right now.
 
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My favorite quote: "Any D with a 3-4 is going to destroy [USC]"

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Even though much of what was said is apparent, it’s great to hear an “insider” call it how he sees it.

It was fascinating to hear that they are recruiting linemen who didn’t run block in HS and always worked from the shotgun when they can and should be focusing on power NFL prototype linemen to run in front of their 5* RB’s.

We must bury them while they are down because if they are able to right the ship then they can quickly get back to the USC from the mid 2000’s.
 
Buffnik said:
Totally agree with the take that USC recruits like a top 5 program but runs a Western Kentucky system when they need to have OLs who know how to go forward and an NFL style system with the guys they have. On top of that, there's a country club culture at the top with a lot of guys who enjoy the power of their positions and won't hire a HC who has autonomy over the program. That keeps them from landing the type of coach who can revamp everything that's wrong there and get them back to what they should be.

With UCLA, I agree that the program has a lot of talent - the cupboard was not bare - but that there's Chip's focused on a culture shift so he has pretty much divided the locker room while not playing many of his more talented players. Instead, he's going with "his guys" who are mostly new freshmen. I expect this season to be a train wreck and for it to take a few years for him to get that rolling. He's got better assistants than what's at USC right now.
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That was interesting to me too. I wonder where CU stands in that regard? It seems like HCMM wants to have some aspect of a power run game, but that we are more of a gimmick team, as Petros said, because we don't have those big time athletes up front. Do you have an idea of the type of high school programs CU recruits their OL player from? Are we too a group that doesn't know how to "go forward" when they get to CU?

In my view, HCMM has the chance now to start working in that direction, without sacrificing progress already made. Sounds like Petros is saying that at SC no admin people are willing to bite the bullet and have two or three mediocre to bad years in order to get back to where they are regularly competing with Bama, OSU and Georgia for the best team in the country. I suspect if HCMM can manage a couple years of 8-10ish wins, while continuing to build a pipeline to the NFL with defensive players he may be able to do the same of the offensive side. That would definitely move CU toward the top of the conference, and a lot closer to a perennial top 25 (or better) program. Prob need to upgrade the asst coaches to get there as well. Really interesting thoughts from Petros. SC folks are prob pissed at him right now.
 
Brett Fulton said:
Really interesting thoughts from Petros. SC folks are prob pissed at him right now.
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As a staff member and grad student at USC I can tell you, internally, USC does not like or tolerate criticism of USC, the "Trojan Family," or really anything connected to the University. They act genuinely surprised and shocked when someone questions the culture of USC. Which is why the sexual abuse at the student health center, or the drug use by the med school Dean carried on for so long unchecked. Former President Nikias, as Petros said, only cared about fundraising. Not ethics, or even abuse of the students, just $$$. People were too scared to speak out against the president and powerful deans.

But Petros dared to criticize the elitism and incestuous nature of USC and the athletic department, which is why Haden fired him from his PA job at the basketball games. When I started working here, I actually asked Petros for advice and he said, partially tongue in cheek, "Don't criticize anyone!" He's not really welcome on campus anymore, which is a real shame, since he's a really interesting guy and comes from a family of Trojans. But he committed the one unforgivable sin at USC, which is speaking negatively about USC. For ****s sake, OJ's Heisman is still in Heritage Hall, but Petros is banned. USC is a weird place.
 
CaliBuff901 said:
Even though much of what was said is apparent, it’s great to hear an “insider” call it how he sees it.

It was fascinating to hear that they are recruiting linemen who didn’t run block in HS and always worked from the shotgun when they can and should be focusing on power NFL prototype linemen to run in front of their 5* RB’s.

We must bury them while they are down because if they are able to right the ship then they can quickly get back to the USC from the mid 2000’s.
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I don't even pretend to know about high school ball or recruiting, but I have to wonder how many HS kids fit the description you're talking about.

It seems every HS team I've seen in the last 5 years runs some sort of variation on the read option offense.

You hear all the time about QBs in the draft coming out college having never taken a direct snap since peewee ball, if ever. That's gotta be true of offensive linemen never having blocked in a true running game system.
 
Buffnik said:
Totally agree with the take that USC recruits like a top 5 program but runs a Western Kentucky system when they need to have OLs who know how to go forward and an NFL style system with the guys they have. On top of that, there's a country club culture at the top with a lot of guys who enjoy the power of their positions and won't hire a HC who has autonomy over the program. That keeps them from landing the type of coach who can revamp everything that's wrong there and get them back to what they should be.

With UCLA, I agree that the program has a lot of talent - the cupboard was not bare - but that there's Chip's focused on a culture shift so he has pretty much divided the locker room while not playing many of his more talented players. Instead, he's going with "his guys" who are mostly new freshmen. I expect this season to be a train wreck and for it to take a few years for him to get that rolling. He's got better assistants than what's at USC right now.
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UCLA is in a pretty similar situation to the one the Fuskers find themselves in. Both are in the middle of total culture changes, and they're gonna take their lumps over the next 2-3 years while Frost and Kelly are turning over those programs. Kelly will win at UCLA. He's got a solid staff, and he's a creative enough coach especially offensively to get things done there. This year is going to be ugly though. I'd be shocked if they're better than 3-9, and I think the only game they'll win for sure is Arizona.

USC is a different deal. Clay Helton seems like a solid enough dude, and a guy I'd probably let my son play for.........but he was nowhere near qualified for that gig when he got it. He'd probably be perfect for a place like CSU though. His staff is a joke, though-its all Trojan leftovers (Pendergast, Johnny Nansen, John Baxter) or people he knows from his days coaching at powerhouses like Memphis (Neil Callaway, Bryan Ellis-who?, his little brother was his QB coach for a while too). Agree with what Petros said-they were as good as they were the last two years because they had one of the best QBs in the sport. I don't see them getting out of the funk they're in until Helton goes......which hopefully isn't until like 2030.
 
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SerenityBuff said:
As a staff member and grad student at USC I can tell you, internally, USC does not like or tolerate criticism of USC, the "Trojan Family," or really anything connected to the University. They act genuinely surprised and shocked when someone questions the culture of USC. Which is why the sexual abuse at the student health center, or the drug use by the med school Dean carried on for so long unchecked. Former President Nikias, as Petros said, only cared about fundraising. Not ethics, or even abuse of the students, just $$$. People were too scared to speak out against the president and powerful deans.

But Petros dared to criticize the elitism and incestuous nature of USC and the athletic department, which is why Haden fired him from his PA job at the basketball games. When I started working here, I actually asked Petros for advice and he said, partially tongue in cheek, "Don't criticize anyone!" He's not really welcome on campus anymore, which is a real shame, since he's a really interesting guy and comes from a family of Trojans. But he committed the one unforgivable sin at USC, which is speaking negatively about USC. For ****s sake, OJ's Heisman is still in Heritage Hall, but Petros is banned. USC is a weird place.
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This reminds me of that Scientology show on A&E with Leah Remini. Petros is now a “suppressive person.”
 
UCLA and USC drive to MacDonalds across the street and pass more football recruits than majority of college football. Its really sickening what a gigantic advantage they have over everyone else. The fact they can't get their **** together tells you how screwed up their admin is in regards to their football programs.
 
I particularly enjoyed this part

Before a game against Cal, former USC coach Paul Hackett instructed a manager to place a small hole in a dry-erase board and punched it in front of the team.
Ironically, Hackett’s hand was bloody, to his horror, when he withdrew it.
Hackett’s reaction to his cut hand made the team think the whole incident was hilarious.
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SerenityBuff said:
As a staff member and grad student at USC I can tell you, internally, USC does not like or tolerate criticism of USC, the "Trojan Family," or really anything connected to the University. They act genuinely surprised and shocked when someone questions the culture of USC. Which is why the sexual abuse at the student health center, or the drug use by the med school Dean carried on for so long unchecked. Former President Nikias, as Petros said, only cared about fundraising. Not ethics, or even abuse of the students, just $$$. People were too scared to speak out against the president and powerful deans.

But Petros dared to criticize the elitism and incestuous nature of USC and the athletic department, which is why Haden fired him from his PA job at the basketball games. When I started working here, I actually asked Petros for advice and he said, partially tongue in cheek, "Don't criticize anyone!" He's not really welcome on campus anymore, which is a real shame, since he's a really interesting guy and comes from a family of Trojans. But he committed the one unforgivable sin at USC, which is speaking negatively about USC. For ****s sake, OJ's Heisman is still in Heritage Hall, but Petros is banned. USC is a weird place.
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I sat next to a former USC outside linebacker who played with Munoz on a flight. He wasn't the big name, didn't get drafted, but did start. He was at an alumni dinner and was sitting across from OJ and Nicole at the table. Someone ask Nicole a question and OJ slapped her because of whatever she said. This guy grabbed OG across the table and has since been banned from all USC athletic events. He doesn't wear his class ring, won't talk positive about USC and really doesn't care if they ever win.
 
I have never been motivated by people screaming at me. Maybe it works for others in different situations, but I was much more motivated with the threat of losing playing time or a starting position than having someone yelling at me.
 
WarBuff said:
I have never been motivated by people screaming at me. Maybe it works for others in different situations, but I was much more motivated with the threat of losing playing time or a starting position than having someone yelling at me.
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I was motivated by beer.
 
WarBuff said:
I have never been motivated by people screaming at me. Maybe it works for others in different situations, but I was much more motivated with the threat of losing playing time or a starting position than having someone yelling at me.
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I was the direct opposite. I didn't register with me at the time, but my coaches did it on purpose. They found out quickly that I played better when I was pissed off, for whatever reason.:D It's usually the opposite for most.
 
WarBuff said:
I have never been motivated by people screaming at me. Maybe it works for others in different situations, but I was much more motivated with the threat of losing playing time or a starting position than having someone yelling at me.
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Me, too. I never had to be pushed to play hard or with a chip on my shoulder. For me and how I'm built, the best coaching method was to get me to play loose and get focused on some schematic or technique keys to exploit or look out for.
 
Buffnik said:
The meeting stunned some players because Helton reportedly screamed at the team and questioned the work ethic of at least one player. Helton's previously been known for his mild-mannered demeanor and creating a perception that players run the program.
But this meeting showed USC's two-game losing streak is taking a toll on the coach.

Trouble in Troy, for sure.
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Whoa. We may go in there on 10/13 favored at this point. What a mess.
 
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