JUCO Transfers

[BuffClass90]

Probably addressed somewhere else, but could someone help me understand the issue(s) around JUCO transfers and CU?

I heard Embree said JUCO transfers were off the table, simply not possible. Is that true, or did he just take them off HIS table?

What makes it difficult for us to get JUCO transfers?

Thanks.

 

[slider]

He took them off HIS table. He could have recruited JUCO's but basically refused

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

Generally speaking, it is very difficult for JUCO players to get into CU, for a multitude of reasons.

But there has never been an outright "ban" on JUCO players.

 

[BuffClass90]

Generally speaking, it is very difficult for JUCO players to get into CU, for a multitude of reasons.

But there has never been an outright "ban" on JUCO players.

What are the reasons? I've heard it's cuz we don't have some majors, we don't earmark admission exemptions for athletes and our admissions dept is too picky. Are any of these wrong or am I missing some?

 

[WizzersGhost]

First, players are not in JUCO because they're Einstein proteges.

So they often major in PE. CU has no PE major, so PE credits do not transfer. Second, many JUCOs barely pass the classes they're taking. CU requires a "B/C+" grade for class credit to transfer. (K-State, in contrast, not only offers PE, it will allow a "D" class grade credit to transfer.) Third, weak academic subjects such as basket-weaving and other arts-type classes, are not generally accepted by CU for transfer credit. If you noticed the last couple of JC transfers CU admitted, were math and engineering majors.

Lastly, If a kid wants to get into CU from JC, he has to work with staff on planning his classes. Many do not want to bother, when they can go to Texas Tech, Utah, Auburn or K-State, with an AA in PE or Basketweaving.

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

What are the reasons? I've heard it's cuz we don't have some majors, we don't earmark admission exemptions for athletes and our admissions dept is too picky. Are any of these wrong or am I missing some?

As I understand it - the problem comes from the COURSES that an athlete takes at JUCO. For a JUCO class credit to transfer to CU, CU must have an equivalent class that counts toward some type of major / degree program. For example, if a student took 15 hours of PE at a JUCO - those do not have an equivalent at CU. So out go those 15 hours, right off the bat - and now the student athlete doesn't have enough hours to be admitted / enroll at CU. CU also doesn't accept grades below a C, I believe. So if a JUCO player got a D in a class - while it might count at his JUCO it won't count at CU. Another credit wiped out.

CU can certainly take JUCO's - but those athletes must be in specific classes and must make good grades. It takes a lot of planning on the part of the athlete.

 

[WizzersGhost]

What are the reasons? I've heard it's cuz we don't have some majors, we don't earmark admission exemptions for athletes and our admissions dept is too picky. Are any of these wrong or am I missing some?

Yeah! Da nerve of dose guys: demandin' our "student-athletes" bein' ables ta read and rite at a HS levil and preform in a collajge class-rume!

Ain't dey heard of "Win at any cost"? Watsamatta wit' dem? Why! I oughta.....


(Oh, and by-the-bye, CU does allow the AD a certain limited number of exemptions for "at-risk" academic cases, but they are few in number, less than 10 for BB and FB combined. In contrast, I read that UCAL allows as many as 25 such exemptions for FB alone. How else do you get inner-city kids into Berkekley?)

 

[MtnBuff]

First, players are not in JUCO because they're Einstein proteges.

So they often major in PE. CU has no PE major, so PE credits do not transfer. Second, many JUCOs barely pass the classes they're taking. CU requires a "B/C+" grade for class credit to transfer. (K-State, in contrast, not only offers PE, it will allow a "D" class grade credit to transfer.) Third, weak academic subjects such as basket-weaving and other arts-type classes, are not generally accepted by CU for transfer credit. If you noticed the last couple of JC transfers CU admitted, were math and engineering majors.

Lastly, If a kid wants to get into CU from JC, he has to work with staff on planning his classes. Many do not want to bother, when they can go to Texas Tech, Utah, Auburn or K-State, with an AA in PE or Basketweaving.

It was many years back but the attitude in the CU admission office isn't much different now. My brother enrolled in CU to finish a degree he was working on. He applied to CU and submitted transcripts. When the acceptance came back they only wanted to accept less than 50 credits out of the 128 he had. He did appeal including submitting class sylibi, etc. and they ended up taking a bit over 90. The school he was transfering was that notoriously easy diploma factory down the road called the Air Force Academy. I can imagine how they respond to some of the JCs and their lack of enthusiam to grant credit

 

[WizzersGhost]

It was many years back but the attitude in the CU admission office isn't much different now. My brother enrolled in CU to finish a degree he was working on. He applied to CU and submitted transcripts. When the acceptance came back they only wanted to accept less than 50 credits out of the 128 he had. He did appeal including submitting class sylibi, etc. and they ended up taking a bit over 90. The school he was transfering was that notoriously easy diploma factory down the road called the Air Force Academy. I can imagine how they respond to some of the JCs and their lack of enthusiam to grant credit

It was all the "Flight Combat Tactics" and USAF Logistics" classes that bit him the rear!

 

[BuffClass90]

Thanks for the info y'all. I'm guessing other PAC12 schools, particularly the academically stronger ones like UCLA, Stanford and Cal, have similar problems with JUCOs.

 

[Quattro]

Yeah! Da nerve of dose guys: demandin' our "student-athletes" bein' ables ta read and rite at a HS levil and preform in a collajge class-rume!

Ain't dey heard of "Win at any cost"? Watsamatta wit' dem? Why! I oughta.....


(Oh, and by-the-bye, CU does allow the AD a certain limited number of exemptions for "at-risk" academic cases, but they are few in number, less than 10 for BB and FB combined. In contrast, I read that UCAL allows as many as 25 such exemptions for FB alone. How else do you get inner-city kids into Berkekley?)

Embree had no issues getting in kids that other schools wouldn't accept like Crawley. This isn't really valid anymore.

And yes, Bohn is working on a general sports major and JUCO rules are changing soon.

 

[Creebuzz]

JUCOs should not be the focus. Maybe you grab one here and there to plug an obvious hole, but CU hasn't had a lot of success with them lately. We got some decent linebacking from one under Hawk, but he brought in a few others that never saw the field.

 

[BuffClass90]

JUCOs should not be the focus. Maybe you grab one here and there to plug an obvious hole, but CU hasn't had a lot of success with them lately. We got some decent linebacking from one under Hawk, but he brought in a few others that never saw the field.

Agreed. I was just wondering about the issues. Sounds like it's a lot of work, to the point of distraction, for the coaches. Probably not the best way to build a program, but like you said, could fill an obvious hole or if some great talent wants to transfer.

 

[89BUFF89]

If we can fish from a larger pool of JUCO players that can get in without jumping thru too many hoops we'll probably find more success there, but I agree we don't want to rely on them like Utah State or KSU.

 

[WizzersGhost]

Embree had no issues getting in kids that other schools wouldn't accept like Crawley. This isn't really valid anymore. .

Yes, as my final parenthetical paragraph stated CU Admiss. grants exceptions. Water Bottle was allowed these exceptions for kids like Crawley. No, they won't admit unqualified students wholesale.

Bohn's efforts have to get through the Colo Commiss. of Higher Ed. whose role it is, to review and approve these new, proposed programs. So cooperation has to come from beyond CU.

 

[MontanaBuff]

If we can fish from a larger pool of JUCO players that can get in without jumping thru too many hoops we'll probably find more success there, but I agree we don't want to rely on them like Utah State or KSU.

... or Kansas. Charlie Weis decided one win in twelve tries required going the K-State route.
The Jayhawks have commitments from sixteen junior college transfers, signing ten of them yesterday.

 

[DBT]

How many schools, if any, have arrangements wit Juco's where they can set up a non qualifier in a program for a couple of years befor bringing him to the mother ship? What are the NCAA rules regarding such arrangements?

 

[MtnBuff]

It was all the "Flight Combat Tactics" and USAF Logistics" classes that bit him the rear!

Actually the problem with a lot of it was class titles. He would have a class titled "Comparative Calculus in the Military World" while CU had the same class titled "Comparative Calculus." In some cases the classes used exactly the same text, had the same course objectives, and the academy class actually covered and tested on more material but the "Military World" part of the title is what got it thrown out. Same thing with a bunch of lower level courses like "Introduction to Sociology" which the academy labelled as "Introduction to Sociology in the Military World." Again exactly the same class, same text, virtually the same sylybus.

He did have some classes that they never would take that were mostly the same class but had some military specific elements included such as personel management courses, etc. In some of these classes everything that the CU course required was in the AFA class but they excluded it because of the aditional military elements.

Point here though is that CU isn't highly open to just accepting transfer credits. As others have stated in this thread most of the guys who go the JC route go that way because they didn't have the academic performance to qualify them straight into a NCAA D1 school. At the same time the JCs tend to serve students with a range of abilities and academic preparation and prowess so a lot of the classes are arguably pretty watered down. A school like KjSU doesn't really care and is happy to take them.

 

[leftybuff]

I transferred into CU and every single credit I had was counted. FWIW.

 

[MtnBuff]

How many schools, if any, have arrangements wit Juco's where they can set up a non qualifier in a program for a couple of years befor bringing him to the mother ship? What are the NCAA rules regarding such arrangements?

Lots of schools have these but virtually all are informal, neither the 4 year or the JC actually have a binding commitment to the other. The kids don't have a binding commitment either but the JC coaches will push them very hard to protect their recruiting advantage they get from the deal.

 

[DBT]

Lots of schools have these but virtually all are informal, neither the 4 year or the JC actually have a binding commitment to the other. The kids don't have a binding commitment either but the JC coaches will push them very hard to protect their recruiting advantage they get from the deal.

Yes, I am aware of that.

 

[NashBuff]

I wonder how CU's case is similiar to Cal's case when it comes to JUCOs?

 

[BlackNGold]

I don't think Embree ever said that JUCOs were off the table - he recruited JUCO in 2011 and 2012. The problem is that so few are a fit that it becomes really hard. As others have mentioned, the transfer of credits is really difficult. Most of it has to do with credits towards your major.

TINI I have no idea where you have heard that Bohn is working on a Sports Major or that JUCO rules are changing. Neither is accurate. Bohn has no power to implement a major and it would be a daunting task...CU has been cutting majors - Journalism for example. CCHE and others would be involved on any new curriculum - CU is not interested in adding anything like a Sport Major. There are no Juco rules per se, just rules on transferring in credits. Those are not about to change.

 

[Creebuzz]

I don't think Embree ever said that JUCOs were off the table - he recruited JUCO in 2011 and 2012. The problem is that so few are a fit that it becomes really hard. As others have mentioned, the transfer of credits is really difficult. Most of it has to do with credits towards your major.

TINI I have no idea where you have heard that Bohn is working on a Sports Major or that JUCO rules are changing. Neither is accurate. Bohn has no power to implement a major and it would be a daunting task...CU has been cutting majors - Journalism for example. CCHE and others would be involved on any new curriculum - CU is not interested in adding anything like a Sport Major. There are no Juco rules per se, just rules on transferring in credits. Those are not about to change.

I seem to recall reading a post that there were some rule changes that were going to impact JUCO recruiting, and these would very negatively impact programs like KSU. I can't recall any of the details, though. Just remember reading something here on Allbuffs( which means it has to be true).

 

[liverflukes]

I wonder how CU's case is similiar to Cal's case when it comes to JUCOs?

It's not from what I have gleaned here. For some reason, JUCO transfers and CU do not mix historically. I'll let you guys figure out the "why".

When I attended college, I was told that JC transfers had "priority" when applying for admission given that the CSU and UC systems were natural destinations for transfers in good academic standing. The entire UC system was designed with this in mind.

I met many JC transfer students in college and they were bright and mature students who eventually received bachelor degrees and in many cases, MBAs and masters degrees later in life. I wouldn't paint with a broad stroke and say that these type of students couldn't necessarily cut it out of HS although that may be the case in a lot of instances. Sometimes, there was not enough funding by their families out of college. In other instances, maybe a person just had to mature and enroll in a JC after getting their sh*t together and figuring out what they wanted to accomplish in life. Plenty of reasons but I didn't follow this route so I really can't offer more insight other than these guesses. Wiki has an interesting link that explains some background here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Community_Colleges_System

This would affect UCLA and CAL JUCOs. I have no idea how other public schools in the PAC deal with this issue or how the private schools justify their enrollment. SC and furd can do whatever they want and I'm not sure they even have to justify or disclose all their admissions policies but there are no "super easy-PE type" majors at the UC schools. I'm also not sure about the Oregon, Washington and Arizonas of the world. Still, it does seem that CU is at a disadvantage here. Not sure why that continues to be the case...

 

[liverflukes]

Before I am (rightfully) attacked regarding Cal's APR being last in the PAC for our football program, keep in mind that JUCO transfers were not a big part of our current mess. A failure to monitor academic progress of the student athletes who WERE accepted by our former coaching regime is mostly to blame IMO. In this regard, your boy Embree seemed to have his act together and did well for your program.

 

[BlackNGold]

I seem to recall reading a post that there were some rule changes that were going to impact JUCO recruiting, and these would very negatively impact programs like KSU. I can't recall any of the details, though. Just remember reading something here on Allbuffs( which means it has to be true).

I took the context of his post to mean that Juco Rules were changing at CU - and the implication was for the better.

 

[dio]

I took the context of his post to mean that Juco Rules were changing at CU - and the implication was for the better.

There is some rule that is changing with the NCAA that is going to really impact teams that rely on JUCO's, and help teams like CU that struggle getting them in. I think it levels the playing field as far as what credits and/or GPA is acceptable?

Not sure - Nik or Duff knows.... they should elaborate.

 

[liverflukes]

There is some rule that is changing with the NCAA that is going to really impact teams that rely on JUCO's, and help teams like CU that struggle getting them in. I think it levels the playing field as far as what credits and/or GPA is acceptable?

Not sure - Nik or Duff knows.... they should elaborate.

Taking on the UC system huh? :rofl:

 

[Buffnik]

There is some rule that is changing with the NCAA that is going to really impact teams that rely on JUCO's, and help teams like CU that struggle getting them in. I think it levels the playing field as far as what credits and/or GPA is acceptable?

Not sure - Nik or Duff knows.... they should elaborate.

Qualifier (out of HS): Spend at least one full-time term at the JUCO, have a 2.50 GPA, have an average of 12 transferrable hours per semester, no more than 2 PE credit hours can be used (A 4-2-4 transfer must also graduate and one year elapse since departure from original 4-year school).

Non-Qualifier (out of HS): Graduate from the JUCO, have a minimum of 48 transferrable hours with a 2.50 GPA, that includes 6 hours of English, 3 hours of Math and 3 hours of Natural and Physical Science, no more than 2 PE credit hours can be used and attend a JUCO for at least three full-time semes-ters.

The biggest changes for Qualifiers are the increase from a 2.0 to a 2.5 GPA and a reduction down to 2 PE credit hours.

For Non-Qualifiers, the mandatory core requirements is a big change, as is the 2 PE credit hour max.

Starting in 2013, CU should be able to compete pretty well for JUCO transfers. Knowing this was coming, I thought it was an incredibly bad move for Embree to not spend time nurturing JUCO relationships. This is an area where Mike Mac is positioned to accomplish a lot for us in a hurry.