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Lineup I want to see - Zone Breaker

jgisland

jgisland

Club Member
Not as a starting lineup, but as a lineup given some time during the game and to break the zone.

Mayor, Booker, Dre, Dufault and Cain

Let Cain be in the low post, he can establish some position and demand attention

Dufault can finally play the 4, let him play the high post and roam around the free throw line against the zone. He can knock down that 15 footer, teams will have to respect his presence there.

Dre on the wing, can penetrate and has to respected on the back side cuts or the alley oop

Booker can penetrate and get to the rim as good as anybody on the team, moves really well without the ball

the Mayor at the point, can hit the 3 if left open, can penetrate and has good vision

I am fairly certain this lineup hasn't played 1 second together, Cain has been paired with Simba most of the time, I really want to see Cain and Dufault. I think Dufault will really benefit from Cain's presence.
 
I like it. It is really the lineup on paper has some potential.

I would also consider rotating Dufault and Cain from the post. Cain has a nice stroke on the shot and may be able to hit the free throw line jumper. I am not convinced that Dufault will take that shot. He hasn't shown much of a willingness to do so.
 
Could work. Dre can cover a wing, SG or SF on defense so that Austin could defend the "4" and then on offense Austin could play the "3" while Dre played the "4" on that end.

Similarly, Mayor Dinwiddie would be the "1" on offense and guard the "2" on defense while Ski would be the "2" on O and guard the "1" on D.

As I said in other threads, though, I lean toward Adams (or Carlon) instead of Austin. I think we need 3 guards on the court and I also think that we need to have an effective frontcourt guy available off the bench.
 
Buffnik said:
As I said in other threads, though, I lean toward Adams (or Carlon) instead of Austin. I think we need 3 guards on the court and I also think that we need to have an effective frontcourt guy available off the bench.
Click to expand...

I don't want to be too negative on some of these guys early in the season, but Adams seems to be a complete liability to me right now, he can't seem to stay in front of anybody on defense. At the Fresno St game the other night a fellow All Buffer commented that Adams has "slow feet." I've gone back and watched the last couple of games and he couldn't have said it more correctly, he doesn't move his feet very well at all right now and he seems to take ill advised shots on offense. Brown does some nice things on defense, seems to have quick hands on D (he knocked the ball out of Martinez's hands several times in the Wyoming game), but his offensive game is struggling a little bit right now and I am not sure he is the answer to break the zone. He settles for a lot of jumpers when he can't get to the hoop that aren't necessarily good shots. Austin has played really well this year and I would like to see him have a shot to play something other than center with a legitimate big man on the floor (Cain).
 
Austin's defense drives me absolutely crazy. He's no threat to block a shot, so even smaller guards just stop and pop over the top of him. Frontcourt guys work him over in the post. And he doesn't rebound much. If he's in a shooting slump like he was against Wyoming, there's very little reason to give him minutes.
 
jgisland said:
I don't want to be too negative on some of these guys early in the season, but Adams seems to be a complete liability to me right now, he can't seem to stay in front of anybody on defense. At the Fresno St game the other night a fellow All Buffer commented that Adams has "slow feet." I've gone back and watched the last couple of games and he couldn't have said it more correctly, he doesn't move his feet very well at all right now and he seems to take ill advised shots on offense. Brown does some nice things on defense, seems to have quick hands on D (he knocked the ball out of Martinez's hands several times in the Wyoming game), but his offensive game is struggling a little bit right now and I am not sure he is the answer to break the zone. He settles for a lot of jumpers when he can't get to the hoop that aren't necessarily good shots. Austin has played really well this year and I would like to see him have a shot to play something other than center with a legitimate big man on the floor (Cain).
Click to expand...

Id have to completely disagree with you on Adams. I think hes one of the best on ball defenders we have, with Ski and Nate
 
Adams plays the best man defense on the team. His mistakes have almost all been due to confusion about our defensive scheme (rotations, whether we're switching on all screens, etc.). He's been very good, though.

Ski is still learning that he can't overplay his man like he did in high school. He's got the quicks to be very good, but he's been getting worked by crossovers and he needs to get stronger.

Nate has quick hands so he gets some steals and he's a senior so he understands our team defense concepts. But beyond that, I think he's a liability. He forgets to box shooter and he isn't physically capable of staying with most guards.

Frankly, my impression of the offensive strategy other teams use is "If you find yourself with Nate or Austin guarding you, it's your turn to score."
 
Buffnik said:
Adams plays the best man defense on the team. His mistakes have almost all been due to confusion about our defensive scheme (rotations, whether we're switching on all screens, etc.). He's been very good, though.
Click to expand...

My impression on Adams man defense - his guy gets the ball he gets up in his grill, his guy dribbles around the parameter he stays with him, his guy makes any sort of crossover or quick move to the basket Adams is on the guys side looking for help from an interior defender to cut off the penetration. IMO he has all the tools he just doesn't do a good job of staying in front of his man, he seems a half step slow. This is early in the season, will he improve as he gets more minutes and games under his belt? I think he very well can and will.
 
I don't know if anyone saw the Boston-Miami game but Boston pulled out the zone and just killed Miami for most of the fourth quarter. The zone prevented any decent penetration. Until the end, in which Norris Cole, the rookie of all people got the ball and was just knocking down the open shot. Definitely something to learn from the Miami game.

Relating it to our team, I wonder who will be our Norris Cole. Who can step up and make the open shot. I would bet that it will not be one person every game, but someone has to step up.
 
btbuff said:
I don't know if anyone saw the Boston-Miami game but Boston pulled out the zone and just killed Miami for most of the fourth quarter. The zone prevented any decent penetration. Until the end, in which Norris Cole, the rookie of all people got the ball and was just knocking down the open shot. Definitely something to learn from the Miami game.

Relating it to our team, I wonder who will be our Norris Cole. Who can step up and make the open shot. I would bet that it will not be one person every game, but someone has to step up.
Click to expand...

Nate gets more open 3-point looks than anybody. He needs to take them. I have and will never get mad at him for missing an open three. It hurts not having a Levi-type shooter, but we have some pretty good shooters who should be able to collaborate for a good amount of threes per game.
 
Rugged said:
Nate gets more open 3-point looks than anybody. He needs to take them. I have and will never get mad at him for missing an open three. It hurts not having a Levi-type shooter, but we have some pretty good shooters who should be able to collaborate for a good amount of threes per game.
Click to expand...

I dont think he cares if you get mad at him, it seems that Boyle isnt too thrilled about him taking a lot of those shots.

I think the biggest problem is when he catches the ball he isnt typically set to shoot, so by the time he sets himself to shoot, its too late. That is one of the things that great 3pt shooters do (and I am lincluding Levi in this), is have their feet and body set so at any point they can shoot the ball, Nate does not do this, you can tell when nate is looking to shoot the ball about 15 seconds before he shoots it.
 
GoBuffs!! said:
I dont think he cares if you get mad at him, it seems that Boyle isnt too thrilled about him taking a lot of those shots.

I think the biggest problem is when he catches the ball he isnt typically set to shoot, so by the time he sets himself to shoot, its too late. That is one of the things that great 3pt shooters do (and I am lincluding Levi in this), is have their feet and body set so at any point they can shoot the ball, Nate does not do this, you can tell when nate is looking to shoot the ball about 15 seconds before he shoots it.
Click to expand...

You're right. Boyle might not want him taking these shots. Which sucks because I think it is the best thing nate can do. The only reason I said I won't get mad (I know he doesn't care what I think) is because I have been openly critical of him for a lot of things. I believe I am fair with my criticisms though.

-- I'm a [strike] mother****ing [/strike] internet Angel --
 
Rugged said:
You're right. Boyle might not want him taking these shots. Which sucks because I think it is the best thing nate can do. The only reason I said I won't get mad (I know he doesn't care what I think) is because I have been openly critical of him for a lot of things. I believe I am fair with my criticisms though.

-- I'm a [strike] mother****ing [/strike] internet Angel --
Click to expand...
I enjoy being slightly unfair in my criticisms.
 
I have seen Boyle get mad and even seen comments made by him when Nate doesn't shoot. The most praise I've heard from Boyle on Nate was after the Air Force game and it was mostly due to Nate being aggressive on offense.
 
At the Texas Southern game Boyle was yelling at Nate to push it up the floor. Nate has a tendency to walk it up the court and Boyle kept yelling "go go go" to Nate to get him to push the tempo. He didn't want TS to get their half court trap set up.
 
Buffnik said:
I have seen Boyle get mad and even seen comments made by him when Nate doesn't shoot. The most praise I've heard from Boyle on Nate was after the Air Force game and it was mostly due to Nate being aggressive on offense.
Click to expand...

Exactly at Air Force, Nate was trying to spot up and work his offensive game, but if you watch him most of the time, he is so conserned about what everyone else is doing, when he catches the ball and realizes he is wide open his foot work is all jacked up, and he normally has the ball ready to pass, not shoot. So yes, Boyle does want him to shoot, but not just throw crap up. Nate also doesnt elevate hardly at all when he shoots, so even if he is "wide open" often a tall lanky guy can get there in time to swat his shot a half dozen rows up (the guy came out of no where...)

tante said:
At the Texas Southern game Boyle was yelling at Nate to push it up the floor. Nate has a tendency to walk it up the court and Boyle kept yelling "go go go" to Nate to get him to push the tempo. He didn't want TS to get their half court trap set up.
Click to expand...

As much as people rag on Tomlinson, this is the part that drives me nuts. Every possesion he was yelling at nate to move, and Nate never did. Boyle drew up a play at CSU, and Nate didnt execute. Something seems afoul.
 
GoBuffs!! said:
Exactly at Air Force, Nate was trying to spot up and work his offensive game, but if you watch him most of the time, he is so conserned about what everyone else is doing, when he catches the ball and realizes he is wide open his foot work is all jacked up, and he normally has the ball ready to pass, not shoot. So yes, Boyle does want him to shoot, but not just throw crap up. Nate also doesnt elevate hardly at all when he shoots, so even if he is "wide open" often a tall lanky guy can get there in time to swat his shot a half dozen rows up (the guy came out of no where...)



As much as people rag on Tomlinson, this is the part that drives me nuts. Every possesion he was yelling at nate to move, and Nate never did. Boyle drew up a play at CSU, and Nate didnt execute. Something seems afoul.
Click to expand...
Yes. The hate grows stronger.
 
2011
PG- The Mayor
SG- Booker
SF- Carlon Brown
PF- Roberson
C- Cain

backups
PG- Tomlinson
SG- Chen
SF- Adams
PF- Cain
C- Dufault


2012
PG- The Mayor
SG- Booker
SF- Xavier Johnson
PF- Roberson
C- Josh Scott

backups
PG- Sharpe/Taiton(sp)
SG- Adam/Chen
SF- Jenkins
PF-Cain/Wesley Gordon
C- Tunks
 
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bigbang2 said:
2011
PG- The Mayor
SG- Booker
SF- Carlon Brown
PF- Roberson
C- Cain

backups
PG- Tomlinson
SG- Chen
SF- Adams
PF- Cain
C- Dufault


2012
PG- The Mayor
SG- Booker
SF- Xavier Johnson
PF- Roberson
C- Josh Scott

backups
PG- Sharpe/Taiton(sp)
SG- Adam/Chen
SF- Jenkins
PF- Wesley Gordon
C- Cain
Click to expand...
Thank you for the opinion.
 
Buffnik said:
I have seen Boyle get mad and even seen comments made by him when Nate doesn't shoot. The most praise I've heard from Boyle on Nate was after the Air Force game and it was mostly due to Nate being aggressive on offense.
Click to expand...

I would reduce Nate minutes and play Booker and Adams more.
 
jgisland said:
Not as a starting lineup, but as a lineup given some time during the game and to break the zone.

Mayor, Booker, Dre, Dufault and Cain

Let Cain be in the low post, he can establish some position and demand attention

Dufault can finally play the 4, let him play the high post and roam around the free throw line against the zone. He can knock down that 15 footer, teams will have to respect his presence there.

Dre on the wing, can penetrate and has to respected on the back side cuts or the alley oop

Booker can penetrate and get to the rim as good as anybody on the team, moves really well without the ball

the Mayor at the point, can hit the 3 if left open, can penetrate and has good vision

I am fairly certain this lineup hasn't played 1 second together, Cain has been paired with Simba most of the time, I really want to see Cain and Dufault. I think Dufault will really benefit from Cain's presence.
Click to expand...

You need Carlon Brown in the lineup to break the zone, outside shooters are needed to break the zone.
 
Darth Snow said:
Expand your mind. Think bigger.
Click to expand...

Bingo. I think Boyle's going to be switching from a 3 guard lineup to a more traditional NBA style one. I honestly think next year we'll be looking at:

G - Dinwiddie
G - X. Johnson
F - Dre
F - Cain
F - Scott

Ski will be the first guy off of the bench. He's perfect in this role as he provides instant offense and energy. If he comes in for The Mayor, he can quasi-run the point. If he comes in for X, he can be the 2. Hell, he can even come in for Dre/Cain/Scott, slide X down and we go small-ish. Chen or Adams will be our fourth guard in the rotation and I think Talton could push them both. Gordon and Simba will be in the rotation for playing time for the bigs.

But I'm an idot, so this is purely speculation on my part. I just think Ski is too valuable off of the bench. Remember, it's not who starts the games, it's who finishes them.
 
Boyle got to take advantage of Dre speed against other power forwards in the conference, he is a power forward. Xavier Johnson will play small forward next year. Booker is an excellent defender, good ball handler, and can shoot, he is also a mismatch at shooting guard. Basketball is a game of matchup, and right now Colorado got an advantage with a shooting guard that can handle the ball so well, a powerforward that can take other forwards off the dribble with his speed, can step outside and hit the three.
 
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