Night Game Kickoff Times for Pac-12 Games

[Buffnik]

This season, there have been a lot of complaints from coaches and even players have mentioned that it would be nice not to have to take redeye flights home from all the away games.

CU, in particular, has a ton of night games this season. That's really tough on older fans and on families.

I ran into this problem this season when I saw the schedule and it was the main reason I didn't renew season tickets. I have a 7-year old son. He goes to bed by 8pm. We all go to the day games as a family, so I'd want to ensure 3 tickets together for all those day games. But the night games mean either getting a sitter and needing only 2 tickets or my wife saying that she doesn't want to deal with a super late game anyway (like that ridiculous Oregon game time) and that she'd prefer to stay home rather than pay for a sitter... in which case I only need 1 ticket. When I did the math, buying 3 season tickets could very well have resulted in me wasting over $1,000 in unused tickets and donations if we'd maintained Club Level seats. That seemed crazy.

So, I want more day games.

I also acknowledge that the tv networks have time slots to fill.

My proposal:

One "Pac-12 at Night" game of the week that's in the late 8:30pm PT/ 9:30pm MT time slot.
One "Pac-12 Prime Time" game of the week that's in the 5:30pm PT /6:30 MT time slot.
All other game except for Thursday & Friday night games in day kickoff slots.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Agreed. Anything to end the whole "Pac 12 After Dark" slogan that has been shoved down our throats by the awful commentating on P12 Network.

 

[HotRack]

You have your time zones backwards. I assume you mean 8:30pm PT/9:30pm MT?
That's still a rough go on east coasters but that's what you get when the job takes you too far away from "home."

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

That sounds basically like how it is now.

1 Thurs/Fri game
1 Prime Time game
1 Late night game
1 @ 11am
1 @ 1:30pm
1 @ 4pm

TV demand places the teams in those slots. Our TV demand is low so we get stuck with 11am or late night. I don't think its a Pac-12 issue as much as its a CU sucks and doesn't get good TV positions issue.

 

[whatthebuff]

This applies to basketball too. There's four 9 pm mt games on our schedule including a Wednesday home game against Oregon St. Nobody's going to show up for that.

But the real lesson here is this: don't have kids.

 

[Buffnik]

You have your time zones backwards. I assume you mean 8:30pm PT/9:30pm MT?
That's still a rough go on east coasters but that's what you get when the job takes you too far away from "home."

Thanks. Fixed.

The thing about what I posted, though, is that you have to figure that the Pac-12 has 6 games a week when we get into conference play. If 2 are in those night slots I propose and 1 is on Thursday or Friday (we often have one on each night), then we end up with half or two-thirds of the games played at night.

I don't know how to make it better than that.

Maybe the Pac-12 needs to consider a different scheduling format that would play more conference games in weeks 1-3 of the season instead of a setup that almost divides things as pre-season / conference play. The SEC does a good job of that, but they only play 8 conference games so it's a different animal in some ways. I wouldn't be opposed to playing a conference game or two in September, though, and having a non-conference game or two in October & November. If those non-conference were spread out it would go a long way to keeping 1/2 or 2/3 of the Pac-12 games from being in those night slots every week.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

What would probably help is a requirement that every team has to play in 1 of the 6 time slots during conference play. Then let demand settle the remaining 3 games.

Just sucks when CU is stuck between 2 time slots basically.

 

[Fight CU]

But the real lesson here is this: don't suck so much.

 

[Jens1893]

You can´t have both, Nik. Convenient kickoff times and the network´s money.

 

[Buffnik]

You can´t have both, Nik. Convenient kickoff times and the network´s money.

I don't know if that's necessarily true. Look at the NFL. 32 teams, so you've got 14-16 games each week. With that, there are 3 night games -- Sunday, Monday and Thursday. Sometimes they double up, but it's always the majority in those 1pm ET / 4pm ET time slots on Sunday. And they seem to do quite well on their media deals. I think there's something to making night games an "EVENT" and slotting the rest for fans in regular day game times.

 

[hokiehead]

not unsympathetic to the plights of fans with kids. however, I note that parenthood requires sacrifices. I gave up hundreds of games and concerts while my kids were in the house that I'd certainly attend today, or that I would've attended during pre-kid life.

That being said, I love the night games. I'd make every single home game a night game if I had my way and didn't think about anyone else.
1. First and most important, attending a night game doesn't consume my entire day. I have the daylight hours to enjoy Colorado's great outdoors, or do house chores, or work from home, or whatever. Attending a noon game seems like it always eats up the entire Saturday.
2. There's a special (positive) energy at night games. the BAC of the attendees could be a factor. the lack of small children and geriatrics could be a factor as well (double-edged sword and all that); I'm pretty sure I've never once been asked to sit down by the person behind me at a night game.
3. If I'm not attending, I can DVR the night game and go about my daily business with almost 0% probabiltiy of having the results spoiled.

I also acknwoledge that building of fan bases is primarily accomplished through home game attendance. if we exclude kids from home games, we'll lose the next generation of fans.

My proposal would be:
1. Ban Friday night games. Again, the Pac12 has no reason to compete with High School football for attendance.
2. One Pac12 Thursday game per week. I love attending Thursday night games, but now that so many teams are getting them, nevermind that the NFL jumped on that bandwagon too, I acknowlege they're not as "special" as they used to be.
3. Fill the Saturday slots with priority being projections to maximize TV viewership. I believe that this impacts recruiting more than attendance, so I wouldn't restrict that. I do think each team needs at least two home games during the day, to make sure we keep the kids and grandparents engaged.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

I don't know if that's necessarily true. Look at the NFL. 32 teams, so you've got 14-16 games each week. With that, there are 3 night games -- Sunday, Monday and Thursday. Sometimes they double up, but it's always the majority in those 1pm ET / 4pm ET time slots on Sunday. And they seem to do quite well on their media deals. I think there's something to making night games an "EVENT" and slotting the rest for fans in regular day game times.

The NFL is pretty much the only thing going on, on Sundays. You get, on full weeks, 13 games on Sunday afternoons. The NFL isn't competing with 4 other major conferences and a large amount of smaller conferences for the same TV time slots.

 

[Buffnik]

@hokiehead -- only "at least 2 home games during the day" per Pac-12 team? We get 4 or 5 Pac-12 home games. I'd say that at least 3 need to be day games.

 

[onealcd]

Maybe the Pac-12 should embrace it and make it more of a party event than an actual football game. More booze, food, music etc. The only thing that sucks about it is the weather at places like CU, Utah, WSU late in the season and at night can be hard to deal with.

 

[Buffnik]

Maybe the Pac-12 should embrace it and make it more of a party event than an actual football game. More booze, food, music etc. The only thing that sucks about it is the weather at places like CU, Utah, WSU late in the season and at night can be hard to deal with.

That's another point on the weather. The Arizona programs shouldn't play home day games in September due to it being over 100 degrees and the Pacific Northwest and Mountain schools should play night games in November due to the weather.

 

[onealcd]

That's another point on the weather. The Arizona programs shouldn't play home day games in September due to it being over 100 degrees and the Pacific Northwest and Mountain schools should play night games in November due to the weather.

Totally agree. If they can dictate their times we should be able to as well.

 

[Jens1893]

I don't know if that's necessarily true. Look at the NFL. 32 teams, so you've got 14-16 games each week. With that, there are 3 night games -- Sunday, Monday and Thursday. Sometimes they double up, but it's always the majority in those 1pm ET / 4pm ET time slots on Sunday. And they seem to do quite well on their media deals. I think there's something to making night games an "EVENT" and slotting the rest for fans in regular day game times.

Yes, but the NFL is one league that sells the rights for all 32 franchises. College is far more complicated with the conferences and each having their own network partners. The fact that ESPN is in bed with every major conference only further complicates this.

The networks call the shots nowadays, Nik. I see it here in soccer every day. You think the fans are happy about 8.45pm midweek kickoffs for the Champions League games? Or 7pm midweek kickoffs? Or that some leagues have like 8 kickoff times for 10 matches spread out over 4 days? I once personally attended a game that kicked off at 11pm local time in Spain and that was on a weeknight. The Premier League caters to the Asian market with its noon kickoffs, that´s far earlier than the traditional 3pm Saturday kickoff time for all games. The second division here has a 8.30pm Monday time slot and some teams, the popular ones, play up to a third of their matches in that slot. The fans as a whole have more influence and power over here than they do over there, even in college with the booster culture, they´ve been fighting this fight for a good 10-15 years now and it´s only getting worse.

You either want the money and let the networks dictate your schedule or kiss the money goodbye.

 

[Dark Bohner]

You either want the money and let the networks dictate your schedule or kiss the money goodbye.

Bullcrap. The networks need your product. Not the other way around. If the demand is there for the product then somebody is going to get paid to provide it and if the networks don't like it then the conferences will find somebody who does. College Football does not belong to sports networks.

I also think people are completely forgetting the biggest impact, which is on the student athletes. Hokiehead completely fails to take into account the reason why coaches and administrators are complaining about the late games. It is completely unfair to make student athletes effectively have sleepless Saturday nights, sometimes for multiple weeks in a row, on top of all of the other massive time commitments they have to put in.

Keep night games special by keeping them infrequent.

 

[Buffs35]

1st, no network needs CU football right now. 2nd, schools and the AD could care less about fans attending the games. TV is all that matters. 3rd, pulling a Maude Flanders and saying we should "think of the children" is laughable. Most big time student athletes are 95% athlete and 5% student. 4th, CU is now a member of a conference in the pacific time zone. For those that have their shoes on right now, that's 2 hours behind the time zone the Big 12 plays in.

If you love the network's money, you shouldn't complain about how it came about.

If your priorities are watching a team that wins in the afternoon, money be damned, go watch School of Mines. Ranked nationally and they kick off around noon for most games.

 

[Dark Bohner]

For those that have their shoes on right now, that's 2 hours behind the time zone the Big 12 plays in.

Not sure why I need my shoes on to understand the difference in time zones. That is fine though, start the games at 3:30 PM instead of 1:30 PM, and the 11 AM games at 1 PM. Problem solved.

 

[patebuff]

11pm kickoff was the dumbest thing I have ever seen. How CU wanted that and agreed to it, is as bad as the loss.

I do get the issue with late games for older and younger fans. You want to maximize your product as best you can. My guess is this will be addressed in the off season with all of the Presidents throwing a fit.

 

[skibum]

I get needing late games to make other networks happy. I don't get late games for the Pac-12 network.

Colorado - OSU probably didn't get any more viewers in the late slot than they would have gotten in an earlier slot. So why the **** do it?

The Pac-12 network did not have a game in the 4:30 PST time slot. Why not put the CU-OSU game there?

 

[onealcd]

I get needing late games to make other networks happy. I don't get late games for the Pac-12 network.

Colorado - OSU probably didn't get any more viewers in the late slot than they would have gotten in an earlier slot. So why the **** do it?

The Pac-12 network did not have a game in the 4:30 PST time slot. Why not put the CU-OSU game there?

1. Because late starts are easier on the west side of the country due to the time they start locally. The OSU game started at 7:30 local time while if they would have a game in the central or eastern time zone it would start at 9:30 or 10:30 local.

2. I know a lot of the time slotting has to do with exclusivity. They want the least amount of Pac-12 games on at one time to keep them from cannibalizing viewers.

 

[BlackNGold]

After the 2013 season, many of the schools complained about the late start. The PAC 12 network said they would back off that. But in 2015 they have gone to a lot of late games.

To me anything after 7:30 is too late. 8:30 means I am getting home after 1 PM. Which means I am dragging on Sunday.

 

[CUFan]

I don't like the games at all. College football is played Saturday afternoons. I've always assumed we've been relegated to the crap night slots because we suck.

 

[skibum]

1. Because late starts are easier on the west side of the country due to the time they start locally. The OSU game started at 7:30 local time while if they would have a game in the central or eastern time zone it would start at 9:30 or 10:30 local.

2. I know a lot of the time slotting has to do with exclusivity. They want the least amount of Pac-12 games on at one time to keep them from cannibalizing viewers.

1. Is pretty non-responsive - I know 7:30 local isn't as bad as 9:30, but 7:30 local (on a Saturday) is not meaningfully better than 4:30 local.
2. I sort of get, but you're going to double slot at least one game. That's impossible to avoid. So what's the rationale for double slotting the 7:30 instead of the 4:30?

I get that the P12 is going to have late games, but I'm questioning if the benefits outweigh the costs in having *so many* late games.

There's 6 conference games a week right now. One Thursday night, one Friday night, and 4 on Saturday. 2 of the Saturday games go to ESPN/ABC and Fox, the conference has little control over those start times.

But that means they control the start time for 2 other games. So again, why schedule 12:00 PST and 7:30 PST? (Now, I could totally understand putting up a 7:30 game, if Fox & ESPN had put their hands in the noon and 4:30 slots, but that's not what's happening.)

 

[sackman]

From a tailgating perspective, I don't mind a 7:00 PM start time. It's preferable to 11:00 AM, for sure. Where it becomes an issue is when the game starts after that. Ideally, games would start between 1:00 and 5:00, but I don't mind the occasional evening game.

 

[onealcd]

1. Is pretty non-responsive - I know 7:30 local isn't as bad as 9:30, but 7:30 local (on a Saturday) is not meaningfully better than 4:30 local.
2. I sort of get, but you're going to double slot at least one game. That's impossible to avoid. So what's the rationale for double slotting the 7:30 instead of the 4:30?

I get that the P12 is going to have late games, but I'm questioning if the benefits outweigh the costs in having *so many* late games.

There's 6 conference games a week right now. One Thursday night, one Friday night, and 4 on Saturday. 2 of the Saturday games go to ESPN/ABC and Fox, the conference has little control over those start times.

But that means they control the start time for 2 other games. So again, why schedule 12:00 PST and 7:30 PST? (Now, I could totally understand putting up a 7:30 game, if Fox & ESPN had put their hands in the noon and 4:30 slots, but that's not what's happening.)

I think they double a lot the 4:30 and 7:30 games because they are prime time and that is when most people watch.

 

[patebuff]

The PTI guys were absolutely ripping the late times for the Pac this year and especially last nights game. Its starting to get some national press as well. My guess is we see some big changes on this front next year.

 

[hokiehead]

@hokiehead -- only "at least 2 home games during the day" per Pac-12 team? We get 4 or 5 Pac-12 home games. I'd say that at least 3 need to be day games.

YeAh, that's my vision. Understand I like night games more than you (more than most). Different strokes and all that.