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OT: CSU funding / attendance / stadium question

pcbuff

pcbuff

Well-Known Member
I think there is a gentlemen here that knows this. (C Squared?) The attendance numbers are bad, The president spent money on a new AD, New football and B Ball coaches, and stadium campaign. How long can they sustain this before it blows up. I would anticipate they are significantly upside down right now with the poor football attendance and big numbers on coaching and AD contracts. How long can they push for the new stadium and fan support before they are forced to waive the white flag?


I want CSU to succeed in it's efforts for a stadium and financially. I may be in the minority, but I believe that if they succeed, Benson will have to follow with capital expenditures.
 
this is an offseason topic for when there is literally nothing else to talk about. Go read Rumblin's basketball preview.
 
They are doing this thing, hell or highwater. I think think the revenue projections are egregiously over-stated, and they will pay the price down the line. I also don't think Graham cares. His only goal is get the stadium built, and if he does then he doesn't care what negative impacts happen after that.

I'm also nearing the camp of hoping they build it - CU needs some local pressure.
 
pcbuff said:
I want CSU to succeed in it's efforts for a stadium and financially. I may be in the minority, but I believe that if they succeed, Benson will have to follow with capital expenditures.
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We need them to avoid failing so that they don't bankrupt Colorado higher education funding and add to the perception that collegiate athletics shouldn't be a priority. If their plan blows up before our shovels hit the dirt, we will have new obstacles, short and long term.
 
This could go badly for CU. If CSU builds it and it's a catastrophic financial flameout, that would bode very badly for supporters of facility upgrades at CU. I think there are a lot of folks looking at the disaster at Cal and pointing out that we could be heading down the same road. I think it will be very important for CU to clearly identify the sources of funding for whatever project they undertake, and ensure they are all based on either funding in place, or cash flow already available. They can't be making assumptions about future cash flows covering the expense. That's not going to fly.
 
They can waive the white flag, so to speak, right up until the moment they issue the bonds and begin construction on the new stadium. That's the "point of no return," after that point, either they will live with the good consequences or they and the Colorado taxpayers will live with the bad consequences.

I think what you are really asking is, "how much cash can they afford to bleed until they get to that point?" And the follow up, "what happens if/when they realize that they're not going to get there?" Depending on their mindset, they may realize that they aren't going to make it and either move up the bond issue/beginning of construction, or pull the plug on the whole thing. From a completely outside and distant perspective, I think a. they are realizing that they aren't going to make it (in terms of cash flow to get there) and there's a "behind the scenes" battle regarding their reaction. How we will know who won: if early dates on the timeline start getting accelerated, the "sports people" won; if the issue starts getting basically ignored, the "other side" won. Earlier this year, we saw signs of the former, now it seems to be the latter...

Side question/discussion point: isn't CSU overseen by a group of governor appointees? Would we rather have that than our currently directly elected Regents?
 
What were the original stadium estimates being touted by csu? Does anyone remember? I'm thinking they were throwing out numbers like $175mm. I recall laughing and said "double that".....I'd like to recall that number "for future reference". All that said, I do generally wish them success and am happy when they win as long as it's not against CU. I do question whether their attendance will DOUBLE by building a new stadium on campus. They need to create demand. Heck, CU is having trouble creating full demand.
 
They'll go forward with it regardless. They're 2 years into "fundraising" and only have 1/3 lined up... supposedly. And I don't understand why they're going so expensive anyway. Why not go for a 50-75mil stadium that can be easily expanded/improved.
 
sliderNcider said:
They'll go forward with it regardless. They're 2 years into "fundraising" and only have 1/3 lined up... supposedly. And I don't understand why they're going so expensive anyway. Why not go for a 50-75mil stadium that can be easily expanded/improved.
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Didn't your brother say it was going to be ready for the 2015 season? They better hurry the **** up. We wouldn't want gasm to look like a moron.
 
sackman said:
This could go badly for CU. If CSU builds it and it's a catastrophic financial flameout, that would bode very badly for supporters of facility upgrades at CU. I think there are a lot of folks looking at the disaster at Cal and pointing out that we could be heading down the same road. I think it will be very important for CU to clearly identify the sources of funding for whatever project they undertake, and ensure they are all based on either funding in place, or cash flow already available. They can't be making assumptions about future cash flows covering the expense. That's not going to fly.
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This is the big fear I have.

There are lots of people out there, some in positions of influence, others who may be voting for people in positions of influence who don't understand or care about the differences in the financial realities between the two programs.

I have no question in my mind that the new stadium, if it gets built, is going to be a financial disaster for CSU. Even if they get a big jump in attendance based on the new facility they aren't going to get close to filling it. A fifty percent increase would still leave them at or below 30,000. Considering that they aren't likely to become a MWC powerhouse winning 10+ games a year this boost would be temporary. Bottom line their revenue projections aren't likely to come close to being met and the school is somehow going to have to figure out how to cover the difference.

The impact on CU is that this gives ammunition to those who would argue against any significant facility improvements at CU based on the financial performance in Ft. Collins.

This is another reason why it is critical that we see dirt flying soon on CU projects so that we can reach the point that financial failures up north can't be used to stop what needs to happen in Boulder.
 
sackman said:
This could go badly for CU. If CSU builds it and it's a catastrophic financial flameout, that would bode very badly for supporters of facility upgrades at CU. I think there are a lot of folks looking at the disaster at Cal and pointing out that we could be heading down the same road. I think it will be very important for CU to clearly identify the sources of funding for whatever project they undertake, and ensure they are all based on either funding in place, or cash flow already available. They can't be making assumptions about future cash flows covering the expense. That's not going to fly.
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We have a significant TV contract driving a revenue stream that can be leveraged. They don't. Beyond that I agree with all of your analysis.

I sure wish the chancellors had forgiven the loans. I also understand the dangerous precedence that would have set.

​
 
pcbuff said:
I think there is a gentlemen here that knows this. (C Squared?) The attendance numbers are bad, The president spent money on a new AD, New football and B Ball coaches, and stadium campaign. How long can they sustain this before it blows up. I would anticipate they are significantly upside down right now with the poor football attendance and big numbers on coaching and AD contracts. How long can they push for the new stadium and fan support before they are forced to waive the white flag?


I want CSU to succeed in it's efforts for a stadium and financially. I may be in the minority, but I believe that if they succeed, Benson will have to follow with capital expenditures.
Click to expand...

dio said:
They are doing this thing, hell or highwater. I think think the revenue projections are egregiously over-stated, and they will pay the price down the line. I also don't think Graham cares. His only goal is get the stadium built, and if he does then he doesn't care what negative impacts happen after that.

I'm also nearing the camp of hoping they build it - CU needs some local pressure.
Click to expand...

Lets not forget this is a marketing issue; Sharing the same state as us, one ranked near dead last in its funding of higher education, CSU needs to attract out of state tuition payers just as much as CU does. It's an investment in that vein plain and simple. They know their athletic facilities are low brow. But they also know they offer a pretty good education and have some excellent programs in a pretty nice city. They know getting on TV more will attract those kinds of students and once they see the new and improved amenities it will be easier to close.
 
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pcbuff said:
I think there is a gentlemen here that knows this. (C Squared?) The attendance numbers are bad, The president spent money on a new AD, New football and B Ball coaches, and stadium campaign. How long can they sustain this before it blows up. I would anticipate they are significantly upside down right now with the poor football attendance and big numbers on coaching and AD contracts. How long can they push for the new stadium and fan support before they are forced to waive the white flag?


I want CSU to succeed in it's efforts for a stadium and financially. I may be in the minority, but I believe that if they succeed, Benson will have to follow with capital expenditures.
Click to expand...

No offense please- Try asking this at ramnation.com
I'm sure you will get flamed :devil:but would love to see the excuses and how this will have a happy ending.
 
Darth Snow said:
this is an offseason topic for when there is literally nothing else to talk about. Go read Rumblin's basketball preview.
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BS :bs:

these are vaild questions - ones that when answered could have a direct effect on the University of Colorado as I guarantee eyes in Boulder pay attention to what going on up north-
 
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I'm conflicted. I'd love to see a project like this go forward and succeed, creating a constructive arms race within the state, but the signs are pointing to this thing winding down sooner rather then later (unless Stryker changes her mind & decides to put an end to all this "fundraising" period by backing the thing by herself). I hate to link the the DP (thankfully, i have no idea how to do that anyway!), but they lay it out fairly plainly. They recently removed 2500 seats from the stadium design to create unassigned "classroom space" to reduce the cost by 20 mil.... while increasing the cost by 17.5 mil to be paid directly by academic funding.. very clever, but you lose some standing on the "revenue generator" argument if you remove 5% of the capacity. Also, they attempted to force the contractors to "pay to play" meaning they had to donate funds to be considered for the job, which is on some sketchy legal ground.. I've been involved in the design of projects like this & when the client is already trying to value engineer the thing to this degree, it will probably not happen.
 
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1. Puts pressure on CU to get its act together.
2. If they start hemorrhaging money it's going to hurt us (see some of the posts above).
3. We need CFB to become relevant in this state again. That can be accomplished solely with a good CU, but would be better if it includes Wyoming, Air Force and CSU.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
I don't post at other teams sites.

InTheBuff said:
No offense please- Try asking this at ramnation.com
I'm sure you will get flamed :devil:but would love to see the excuses and how this will have a happy ending.
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I ask the question here because I actually think the response will be more reasoned. It seems that many agree with me that this project can have impact on the program we love, both positive and very negative.
 
Their attendance figures for this year are absolutely brutal. 14,000 for their home opener. 19,500 for the UTEP game. 26,022 for the game against San Jose State. (And that was their largest crowd in 3 years) Only 22,000 for last weekend's game against Boise State.
 
I just wish they would take it slow so then they could provide actual results to boosters that it works and expand the stadium. They are over selling and probably going to under deliver. They should take the opposite approach. And yes that would be great for CU also.
 
CSU improving has nothing to do with CU. We need to worry about ourselves.

West Virginia being a powerhouse did not improve Marshall.
Marshall being better recently does not improve West Virginia
 
buffalo1 said:
What were the original stadium estimates being touted by csu? Does anyone remember? I'm thinking they were throwing out numbers like $175mm. I recall laughing and said "double that".....I'd like to recall that number "for future reference". All that said, I do generally wish them success and am happy when they win as long as it's not against CU. I do question whether their attendance will DOUBLE by building a new stadium on campus. They need to create demand. Heck, CU is having trouble creating full demand.
Click to expand...

They want to spend $250 million on the stadium. Regarding attendance, maybe for their first season it will double if that coincides with success on the field. Maybe.


sliderNcider said:
They'll go forward with it regardless. They're 2 years into "fundraising" and only have 1/3 lined up... supposedly. And I don't understand why they're going so expensive anyway. Why not go for a 50-75mil stadium that can be easily expanded/improved.
Click to expand...

That's the part I don't get either. That could build something pretty basic for about a third of what they're planning on spending. Granted it was a few years ago but UCF built their 45K-seat stadium for $55 million.
 
interesting read on the process from the top.. http://csusystem.edu/uploads/files/Stadium Report_10-3-13.pdf

two years to raise 1/3 of the newly adjusted philanthropic goal.. so around $38 million. 6 months to raise the other 75?
about $2.5 mil per year to provide upkeep on Hughes although he sees no way to cover those costs with current revenue streams.. do they just give away the tickets to home games currently?!

the whole letter just has a stink to it. rounding down all numbers that support your argument, while rounding up all numbers regarding the alternative, etc...now i just hope the whole thing can just go away before it leaves a stink throughout the state..
 
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