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Pac-12 Expansion - Hoops Focus

Buffnik

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
Club Member
Junta Member
We all know that football is going to drive realignment since it accounts for something like 80% of the media revenue. But MBB is also a revenue sport and it's also a lot more programming volume over a longer season - making it very important for a conference network.

CBS Sports ranked the Top 68 all-time programs last year.

Here was their criteria:

  • NCAA Tournament championships (20 points)
  • Final Four appearances without a national title (10 points)
  • Regular-season titles (5 points)
  • Elite Eights without making the Final Four (3 points)
  • NIT titles (3 points)
  • NCAA Tournament bids (2 points)
  • Wins (0.5 points)
  • Losses (-0.5 points)
  • Wins over ranked opponents (0.5 points)
  • Weeks ranked (0.1 point)
  • Top-10 NBA picks (5 points)
  • 11-30 NBA picks (3 points)
  • 31-60 NBA picks (1 point)
www.cbssports.com

The Greatest College Basketball Programs Ever: Ranking the top teams of all time

You know who the top schools are, but can you guess them in the right order? Come look at the top shelf of college hoops
www.cbssports.com www.cbssports.com

Based on that, here are the current Pac-12 programs with national prestige as brands and the expansion candidates that would elevate the conference from a hoops standpoint.

66. Cal
64. New Mexico State
63. Utah State
62. UTEP
58. USC
53. Stanford
51. Washington
42. Houston
36. BYU
30. UNLV
28. Kansas State
25. Oklahoma State
16. Utah
13. Arizona
5. Kansas
4. UCLA

From a hoops standpoint, with consideration for expanding the footprint in a smart way based on the other things (new states/markets with significant populations), these are the 4 programs to take in order to create a Pac-16:

1. Kansas -- immediately elevates the conference in basketball by adding one of the few true blue bloods
2. Oklahoma State -- Top 25 program is no joke, under-appreciated program
3. UNLV -- sleeping giant right now that has everything to get great again quickly
4. Houston -- they're great again after sleeping for a while since the Phi Slamma Jamma era

A case could even be made to take KSU if KU were to go to the B1G. And, once again, BYU sits there as a near-perfect fit for the conference if it weren't for those little challenges on academic freedom, cultural values and the scheduling challenges around Sunday games. I don't think anyone else really does much, although a case could be made for SMU based on recent success since Larry Brown came in and rebuilt them and also a case could be made for San Diego State as possibly the best western hoops program other than Gonzaga over the past 20 years.
 
I think you can definitely make a KU addition to the conference work based solely on their hoops pedigree. The other schools? Meh. I know we hate bailer, but they did just win a natty. I’m ok with telling them to go **** themselves, but if we are looking solely at bolstering the hoops profile, they have to be in the conversation.
 
Oklahoma State isn't getting enough respect for the solid overall athletic department they have besides the football team. Kansas is a no brainer in this case and would help the top football teams of the PAC pad their W-L records. Houston is an obvious fit for the Pac-12 and like Not Sure said, Baylor might have to be considered in this case.

I'm not sold on UNLV right now and the long term concern is that the Vegas Knights & Raiders plus a potential NBA & MLB team would really reduce UNLV's presence within the city. The only reason to add UNLV is if the Pac-12 really wants to have a school in Las Vegas which might not be necessary with the football CCG and basketball tourneys already in Vegas.
 
I believe that Baylor & BYU are impossible for political & cultural reasons.

I think that Houston is the most obvious fit for the Pac.

I think that having a program in the DFW metro makes too much sense economically to not do it & I might prefer SMU over TCU (more money, slightly better academics, Dallas instead of Fort Worth, and UH's traditional rival).

I think OSU is too strong athletically to be left behind - with everything else within Pac parameters even if some are below mean.

I think KU has everything except football.

So, bringing in a bit more than pure hoops, I guess those are my 4. And my 1st alternate to KU if the B1G snagged them would be UNLV for the hoops, state population and home metro with a university that was recently upgraded to R1 research intensity.
 
Buffnik said:
I believe that Baylor & BYU are impossible for political & cultural reasons.

I think that Houston is the most obvious fit for the Pac.

I think that having a program in the DFW metro makes too much sense economically to not do it & I might prefer SMU over TCU (more money, slightly better academics, Dallas instead of Fort Worth, and UH's traditional rival).
Click to expand...

None of 3 Texas schools you list are AAU, would that matter?

All that aside, if the Pac12 makes expansion decidions based on basketball they're setting themselves up to become even closer to a G5 than a P4/5 conference.
 
Goose said:
P5 is gone. It’s a P2 now. Nik’s expansion ideas aren’t my cup of tea but it would keep us solidly in the Decent 3 and avoiding the ****ty 5.
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Exactly. At this point, it's a matter of being somewhere between the ACC and the B1G/SEC. I think we've got to stake a claim to TX while crippling the B12 in order to make that happen.
 
Do we discuss a “Gonzaga in everything but football” yet? Someone is going to do it. Not sure it should be us, but it’s something the brass should probably be investigating.
 
Goose said:
Do we discuss a “Gonzaga in everything but football” yet? Someone is going to do it. Not sure it should be us, but it’s something the brass should probably be investigating.
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I think the Big East is going to extend an invite. They're likely to take it since their conference lost a ton with the BYU departure.
 
Buffnik said:
I think the Big East is going to extend an invite. They're likely to take it since their conference lost a ton with the BYU departure.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Everything except geography is a great fit there. But I go back and forth on if the P12 should. Problem is I don’t know who to bring with them.
 
I have a good friend who lives in Spokane. He loves it. Says it’s great. Never been there, personally, but this is the first place I’ve ever seen anybody say anything negative about it.
 
Not Sure said:
I have a good friend who lives in Spokane. He loves it. Says it’s great. Never been there, personally, but this is the first place I’ve ever seen anybody say anything negative about it.
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The best comparison I'd have for Spokane is to think of what Colorado Springs was like 3 or 4 decades ago on population and its status as a city.
 
Goose said:
Agreed. Everything except geography is a great fit there. But I go back and forth on if the P12 should. Problem is I don’t know who to bring with them.
Click to expand...
Would have to be another basketball only school from a scheduling perspective I'm guessing. Private school with basketball not on east coast hmm Maybe St. Louis University, Saint Mary's. Butler? None really jump off the page.

I also like Boise State and San Diego State from MWC. Boise iconic football stadium, amazing football, solid hoops. Population is booming (people calling it the next Denver). SDSU has been a machine bball wise since Fisher turned it around and their football program is always pretty solid and beat a Pac 12 team annually in non-conference. San Diego in a huge population market as well. I know 2 mid majors doesn't really fit into this mega conference discussion but just my thoughts.
 
Buffnik said:
I believe that Baylor & BYU are impossible for political & cultural reasons.

I think that Houston is the most obvious fit for the Pac.

I think that having a program in the DFW metro makes too much sense economically to not do it & I might prefer SMU over TCU (more money, slightly better academics, Dallas instead of Fort Worth, and UH's traditional rival).

I think OSU is too strong athletically to be left behind - with everything else within Pac parameters even if some are below mean.

I think KU has everything except football.

So, bringing in a bit more than pure hoops, I guess those are my 4. And my 1st alternate to KU if the B1G snagged them would be UNLV for the hoops, state population and home metro with a university that was recently upgraded to R1 research intensity.
Click to expand...

"I think KU has everything except football."

Like looking in a fvcking mirror.
 
Not Sure said:
I have a good friend who lives in Spokane. He loves it. Says it’s great. Never been there, personally, but this is the first place I’ve ever seen anybody say anything negative about it.
Click to expand...

So do I. I have always enjoyed visiting there. Of course, they live in the hills on the northern edge of the city and it's beautiful. Had the house built to their specifications over 30 years ago. Husband is a retired doctor. Their son, who took over dad's practice, loved where he grew up. He and his wife bought a house just a couple of house on up the hill from the parents.
 
TCU + Houston, which makes the most sense in terms of media markets & football value, have made a great case that they'd be awesome for hoops too. And TTU as a potential 3rd team or sub for TCU doesn't look shabby either.
 
If we're talking hoops only, Gonzaga and either SDSU or UNLV would be my preference. I know adding Texas schools for media markets and more exposure farther east is a good idea, but you know, Texas so.
 
Buffnik said:
TCU + Houston, which makes the most sense in terms of media markets & football value, have made a great case that they'd be awesome for hoops too. And TTU as a potential 3rd team or sub for TCU doesn't look shabby either.
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Wouldn't Buffs fans piss themselves at the idea of having to play Jamie Dixon twice a year though?

Add Gonzaga in everything they have just to get that Men's basketball program. They don't play football? Who the hell cares? That's a win win for both sides. One of my assignors is a current WCC official-he thinks they won't ever win a championship out of that league because there's such a discrepancy between the top (SMC in particular, BYU until they leave, etc) and the bottom in that league.

****, if I'm Tad I'd call Mark Few and offer him a game at whatever the hell the Kraken's building is called for a game at Ball Arena.
 
Scotch said:
If we're talking hoops only, Gonzaga and either SDSU or UNLV would be my preference. I know adding Texas schools for media markets and more exposure farther east is a good idea, but you know, Texas so.
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If we weren't going to expand outside the MTZ-PTZ, I do think that going with non-football members could make some sense like how the Notre Dame-ACC relationship works or Wichita State-AAC. Dangle the carrot of potential football in the future if they meet certain criteria on whatever may be lacking (facilities, football performance, academic standing, endowment, etc). There are a lot of intriguing candidates down that path.
 
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