Pac-12 Network is ticking me off or is it Comcast that is the problem?

[NashBuff]

I'm sorry if this isn't the first thread about the Pac-12 Network issues especially with Comcast but there are a few major reasons why we should be ticked off at Larry Scott and Comcast.

Number one: CSU has a local TV deal and will have online streaming of their games on www.csurams.com while we no longer have that option with BuffVision or BuffTV due to the Pac-12 Network. But it would be a good tradeoff since we would be able to watch the 11 other schools as well.

Number two: The NFL allows us to watch NFL games on demand with something called NFL Rewind. If you look at this link: https://gamerewind.nfl.com/nflgr/se...ampaign=Prod_GR_Nav&cvsorc=Homepage.GR.GP_Nav

For $39.99 dollars THIS year, you can watch ANY NFL game from the 2009, 2010, 2011, and this upcoming season. THAT IS FOUR SEASONS which means 256 NFL games per season which means at the end of this season, we will be able to watch 1,024 NFL games. If you want all the playoffs plus the Super Bowl this season, that's $69.99 which is an extra $30 on top of that $39.99 deal. Let me repeat, FOUR SEASONS OF NFL FOOTBALL ON DEMAND for $39.99!!!

The NFL will release an iPad app for NFL Rewind this year. They already had the one for Preseason Live where you could watch all preseason games plus replay those preseason games and it's on sale for $9.99!!! I'm subscribing to that tomorrow morning for sure if not after I post this message.

Number three: What is becoming obvious is that for internet only customers for Comcast, we have to pay an extra $9.99 per month which means we will be paying $120 a year just to have the ability to watch the Pac-12 Network. I'm not complaining about that since I am able to watch ESPN, ESPN2, ESPN3, and ESPNU on my iPad but it appears to me that mighty Larry Scott had to bend over for the cable companies so the 12 schools wouldn't pay one penny to start up the Pac-12 Network. It feels like I'm being forced to get basic cable so I can watch the Pac-12 Network and I do have a beef with that.

I don't know if CSU fans will have to pay to watch all their games online but I would have been happy to pay $10 per month to watch any CSU sport if I was a CSU fan. Those sick green bastards probably are laughing at us right now because they have been through this with the Mtn.

You cannot dismiss the value that you would get watching all those NFL games. I'm not asking for the ability to watch the games live online as a way to rip off the cable companies that made huge investments in the Pac-12 Network but the ability to watch the games ON DEMAND for a price would have been awesome! I wonder how much money the Pac-12 is squandering in this case and given the state funding issues for higher education, every administrator from every Pac-12 school should be upset with Larry Scott and the cable companies. If people could watch any Pac-12 game for just $59.99 per year for nearly the same amount of inventory that the NFL has online for NFL fans to watch on demand & online, I'm sure there wouldn't be enough room to put all the gold from eager Pac-12 fans.

I'm not ready to call this a lost cause yet, but if we are not able to watch the games on demand, I believe the anger at the Pac-12 Network and Scott will really reach a boiling point. That Football in 60 is something I'm seriously looking forward to since I would be able to watch every Pac-12 football game this season. I'm sure some of those people want their Olympic sports, basketball, baseball ,etc as badly as I want my football.

And don't get me started with Comcast...those greedy cable pigs can go screw themselves with their three other buddies (Cox, Brighthouse, Time Warner).

 

[Timbuff10]

Glad someone else is seeing that the providers aren't the only ones responsible for this disaster of a Network launch. The days of getting your money from advertising/commercials seem to be long gone yet we still have to watch commercials. Today they want to charge you to be able to watch those commercials.

 

[Timbuff10]

I also noticed that My20 which you can get on any provider around Denver or (here is a novel idea) with rabbit ears, is showing all the ACC games this year in the local Denver area.

What the hell is up with that? The local Denver station (NBC Channel 9's brother) is airing ACC games every Saturday but we can't get CU games on local TV?

 

[GoBeers]

Well you are assuming that the P12 is leaving money on the table with their plan, and that's true if they can't come to an agreement with Directv, but the rest you propose could diminish the value of the P12 TV contract... you know the one that will bring in over $25 million per year for each school. If anything, the conference is risking trading exposure for money... as in they get more money but less exposure. I'm pretty sure you'll have the ability to watch replays streaming with pac 12 net online. they aren't selling that as a standalone because it will reduce the drive for the providers to pick up the station.

What the rams are doing is irrelevant... they are essentially paying channel 20 to get their games on the air. Say the Buffs wanted 7 games on the same channel... would you rather pay $$ for that, or receive $10-15 million dollars? hmmm.

yeah it's very possible the p12 is asking for too much from DTV, but again that's because they are trying to maximize their money.

 

[buff4bcs1985]

 

[Dark Bohner]

You don't just wave a magic wand and have the Pac 12 Networks up and running across the country in every TV in America from day one. The Big Ten network, which is the model for success, took a few years to hit it's stride and is not nearly as ambitious as the Pac 12 networks. People need to have a little patience.

 

[dply]

One of the issues with your argument is that the NFL owns the rights to all their own games. The Pac-12 doesn't own all of the games that have been played the last 4 years.

Now that there is a network you might see something very similar in the next four years.

 

[somebody]

1) I think I read in another thread that CSU isn't guaranteed to make a dime on their programming deal. Versus CU making $20m. I think programming restrictions are a fair bargain.
2) Are you really comparing the NFL with CFB?
3) You said you get ESPN, etc on your iPad - but you already have to have at least basic cable for that. At least, the only thing I get on my computer, let alone smartphone, is ESPN3 w/o a cable tv provider of some kind.

 

[CUFan]

Not being able to see the games locally without a higher tier cable package is not great. It really limits our exposure in the state. I gues that's the tradeoff for the higher payout from the PAC Network.

Of further concern are the reports of the PAC Network not being carried nationally. If true, that is another exposure problem for the conference. I'm sure Larry Scott understands this stuff much better than us, so hopefully there is a plan for changes as the network matures.

 

[skibum]

Of further concern are the reports of the PAC Network not being carried nationally. If true, that is another exposure problem for the conference.

There's no "IF" there. It is true.

I don't get it, and I can't get it.

I'm in the DC area, we have one of the largest, if not the largest alumni association outside of Colorado. And all of us are screwed after this weekend (which is thankfully on FX). Different parts of the metro area are served by COX and/or Comcast - neither of which offers the P12 Network in this area, not even the national feed. Unless something changes, we're basically ****ed.

My last holdout is the USC/UCLA game - those schools also have very large alumni bases here, and I'm sure they will all be screaming for coverage when that games comes along.

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, this really pisses me off: Why in the hell isn't the Pac-12 engaging the alumni associations in this? All of the P12 schools have very large alumni contingents out here. Most of the alumni aren't all that dialed in - they watch the games, they go to watch parties, etc, but they don't follow the ins/outs of coverage. I would bet that 90% of them have absolutely no clue that a bunch of games aren't going to be available out here. When they do finally realize it, the carriers are going to have a ****storm on their hands - but by then half the season will be gone.

Why isn't the P12 starting to get the word out now, via the alumni associations, and raise that ****storm now?

 

[NashBuff]

Well you are assuming that the P12 is leaving money on the table with their plan, and that's true if they can't come to an agreement with Directv, but the rest you propose could diminish the value of the P12 TV contract... you know the one that will bring in over $25 million per year for each school. If anything, the conference is risking trading exposure for money... as in they get more money but less exposure. I'm pretty sure you'll have the ability to watch replays streaming with pac 12 net online. they aren't selling that as a standalone because it will reduce the drive for the providers to pick up the station.

What the rams are doing is irrelevant... they are essentially paying channel 20 to get their games on the air. Say the Buffs wanted 7 games on the same channel... would you rather pay $$ for that, or receive $10-15 million dollars? hmmm.

yeah it's very possible the p12 is asking for too much from DTV, but again that's because they are trying to maximize their money.

You have some very good points about why the Pac-12 could have done that instead of this.

Don't get me started about CSU. I will provide the link to the official story: http://www.csurams.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/082712aab.html Read the quote VERY carefully:

Channel 20-KTVD is one of the networks of Denver's NBC affiliate 9NEWS, the top-rated station in the nation's 17th largest media market. All games televised will be carried live over-the-air by Channel 20 covering their Colorado broadcast footprint via satellite on Dish and DirecTV and on cable through Comcast.

I don't know how old you are and what kind of deals Cal had with the media before the Pac-12 Network stuff came about but this is the same way that helped convert me from a Sooner fan to a Buff fan as a young kid and that was the ability to watch CU games above the air back in the late 1980's. All it took was the 1989 CU-Nebraska game to win me over and I was still smarting over the Huskers beating the Sooners the previous year (1988). I don't care about the production values...I want to see my team play and CSU fans can do that (good for them) and at the same time there are many 6-12 year old kids in Colorado who hasn't declared their loyalty to either school just yet. And for the out-of-state CSU fans & alumni, they get to show their kids a part of who they are and what kind of exprience they had in their lives. If I was in the same boat today, I'm not sure if I would end up being the CU fan that I am today. The old Big 8 was a very regional conference back then just like the MWC is today.

Given that a lot of Colorado kids come from Florida, California, and Texas these days, exposure cannot be underestimated at all. Like I said about being an OU fan back then, I came from Texas to Colorado. I know TOO well how important exposure is to non-alumni such as myself. The Pac-12 and Comcast is not doing CU any favors right now in the exposure department and that I why I am upset with both the conference and Comcast. There is only a limited amount of time for CU to convert such fans and once they get to a certain age, they decide on their school's loyalty. If it wasn't for CU's local deal back then, I would still be an Oklahoma Sooner fan due to my family.

And while you are right about CSU picking up the production costs, $60 to 70k per game is small potatoes when it comes to exposure for the school. http://www.coloradoan.com/article/20120824/SPORTS/308240033/11-CSU-s-12-games-fall-will-televised CSU still can offset those costs by selling advertising and you bet CSU will be advertising their academics to prosepctive students and giving alumni that tingling feeling to give back to their school. CU's Benson has talked a lot about last year's USC-CU game which was the only game on ESPN that night and what it did for exposure to CU.

The money is nice but exposure is still a pretty big deal if not a bigger deal than money.

 

[NashBuff]

1) I think I read in another thread that CSU isn't guaranteed to make a dime on their programming deal. Versus CU making $20m. I think programming restrictions are a fair bargain.
2) Are you really comparing the NFL with CFB?
3) You said you get ESPN, etc on your iPad - but you already have to have at least basic cable for that. At least, the only thing I get on my computer, let alone smartphone, is ESPN3 w/o a cable tv provider of some kind.

1) Read the response to GoBeers. CSU picking up 60k to 70k per game for production costs can be written as simple advertising expenses. No big deal to CSU.
2) I am talking about the value of the deal that the NFL has for their online streaming stuff NOT comparing the NFL and CFB. And while I am still at it, EXPOSURE!!! I get to watch all 32 teams for a price WHEN I WANT TO WATCH IT. And the fact that CSU will have very good exposure compared to CU is ticking me off. Can you explain to me why the state of Colorado is basically a Denver Broncos state?
3) I haven't watched much ESPN on the iPad and if Comcast does not get their act together with the Pac-12 Network, I am free to return my Comcast equipment and maybe switch to CenturyLink. Maybe it's time to seriously threathen Comcast that I will cancel their service if they cannot deliver what I want from the Pac-12 Network.

But that does not mean Larry Scott gets a free pass here. I'll say that he is one heck of an used car salesman because the Pac-12 Network so far has really underdelivered big time.

The Pac-12 Network should have been online only because that would mean EXPOSURE to anyone who has the Internet. It is 2012 not 2002!

 

[NashBuff]

There's no "IF" there. It is true.

I don't get it, and I can't get it.

I'm in the DC area, we have one of the largest, if not the largest alumni association outside of Colorado. And all of us are screwed after this weekend (which is thankfully on FX). Different parts of the metro area are served by COX and/or Comcast - neither of which offers the P12 Network in this area, not even the national feed. Unless something changes, we're basically ****ed.

My last holdout is the USC/UCLA game - those schools also have very large alumni bases here, and I'm sure they will all be screaming for coverage when that games comes along.

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, this really pisses me off: Why in the hell isn't the Pac-12 engaging the alumni associations in this? All of the P12 schools have very large alumni contingents out here. Most of the alumni aren't all that dialed in - they watch the games, they go to watch parties, etc, but they don't follow the ins/outs of coverage. I would bet that 90% of them have absolutely no clue that a bunch of games aren't going to be available out here. When they do finally realize it, the carriers are going to have a ****storm on their hands - but by then half the season will be gone.

Why isn't the P12 starting to get the word out now, via the alumni associations, and raise that ****storm now?

You are in DC right? I went to Gallaudet University in DC and I was only able to watch CU one or two times per season between 1999 and 2005 so I do understand your pain of not watching CU football. I really missed watching the Broncos and now with the NFL Rewind stuff today, I would not have that problem since I would be able to watch the replay of the game and watching the game live isn't that big of a deal anymore since I can still see the game. BuffsTV offered us that option until this year so I can understand why CU alumni and fans outside of the Pac-12's media footprint would be very upset. I know that DC has a lot of people from every part of the country so I'm sure the alumni & fans of the 11 other schools are just as ticked off as you are. I wonder if those alumni & fanbases will start shrinking when they CAN'T watch their favorite team play? Where will their money go to?

How I compenstated for the lack of CU and Denver Bronco exposure was to go to Maryland football games and watch the Redskins play. I bought some Maryland & Redskin gear but once I moved back, I was so HAPPY to buy CU & Denver Broncos stuff again.

Now if I had to move back to the DC area (no thanks to going back to that massive rat race called the Beltway and Metro), I can watch my Broncos but what about my Buffs?

 

[NashBuff]

One of the issues with your argument is that the NFL owns the rights to all their own games. The Pac-12 doesn't own all of the games that have been played the last 4 years.

Now that there is a network you might see something very similar in the next four years.

The Pac-12 does own some rights to past games such as the 1991 Orange Bowl so there should be enough Classic Game inventory for the Pac-12 to sell for a reasonable price similiar to what the NFL is selling. It will take time for the Pac-12 to acquire all those rights from every Pac-12 school but at the same time, the Pac-12 doesn't have only football to sell and the amount of inventory the Pac-12 would have should be sufficent even at this time.

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

The Pac-12 Network should have been online only because that would mean EXPOSURE to anyone who has the Internet. It is 2012 not 2002!

They should have done online programming all this past year. It would have given them some leverage with the networks because they could show an actual product as well as showing a specific revenue stream for their product.

 

[NashBuff]

I also noticed that My20 which you can get on any provider around Denver or (here is a novel idea) with rabbit ears, is showing all the ACC games this year in the local Denver area.

What the hell is up with that? The local Denver station (NBC Channel 9's brother) is airing ACC games every Saturday but we can't get CU games on local TV?

I honestly didn't know that since I stopped putting rabbit ears and stopped buying cable TV until recently when it was included in my new internet plan. If I was able to watch those ACC games, I would be able to keep a connection to Maryland and the ACC (it's still a very good conference whose turn in football could come this year) and maybe forsake CU. Call me a bad CU fan or whatever but the point is made.

But the ACC is getting exposure in Denver and the Rocky Mountain area. Suppose a Duke fan who just moved to Colorado is able to watch his/her Dukies win in basketball? That connection between the fan and the school remains intact. Had that not been the case, it's possible that connection starts to die and that is the problem I had in DC. If it wasn't for the internet, would I still be rooting for the Buffs or someone else?

Guys, I know I am on a rampage this morning but I hope you understand how this could hurt CU's ability to retain fans plus get alumni to empty their wallets. I am not an alumni and do not understand the connection between an alumni & its school but I DO understand the fan & school connection and if CU is to be successful in the future, they have to retain the fans. And right now with the losing in football, it does amaze me that CU has managed to keep the fans coming to Folsom Field but that cannot go on forever.

 

[NashBuff]

They should have done online programming all this past year. It would have given them some leverage with the networks because they could show an actual product as well as showing a specific revenue stream for their product.

I'm sure it wouldn't have cost very much to get the online feed up and running...just look at KSU's HD online channel. CU's vidoe quality of BuffVision was very good for SD and now we are going to HD this year. Bill Snyder's starting QB is from Loveland in Colorado. Suppose he was recruiting Klein today, he can promise Klein's family that they will watch all of KSU's football games one way (TV) or the other (Internet). How does that make Embree's job recruiting instate kids any easier than it is right now.

We won't have to look far for a new commissioner in Kevin Weiberg who is Larry Scott's right hand man.

 

[CUFan]

I honestly didn't know that since I stopped putting rabbit ears and stopped buying cable TV until recently when it was included in my new internet plan. If I was able to watch those ACC games, I would be able to keep a connection to Maryland and the ACC (it's still a very good conference whose turn in football could come this year) and maybe forsake CU. Call me a bad CU fan or whatever but the point is made.

But the ACC is getting exposure in Denver and the Rocky Mountain area. Suppose a Duke fan who just moved to Colorado is able to watch his/her Dukies win in basketball? That connection between the fan and the school remains intact. Had that not been the case, it's possible that connection starts to die and that is the problem I had in DC. If it wasn't for the internet, would I still be rooting for the Buffs or someone else?

Guys, I know I am on a rampage this morning but I hope you understand how this could hurt CU's ability to retain fans plus get alumni to empty their wallets. I am not an alumni and do not understand the connection between an alumni & its school but I DO understand the fan & school connection and if CU is to be successful in the future, they have to retain the fans. And right now with the losing in football, it does amaze me that CU has managed to keep the fans coming to Folsom Field but that cannot go on forever.

It won't go on forever. We have a whole decade of State of Colorado and other potential young fans lost. It is a deficit that needs to be made up in short order as our older fan base starts croaking (no reference to DBT). I think exposure is of the utmost importance and am concerned as well. For the moment, your rampage is warranted.

 

[NashBuff]

It won't go on forever. We have a whole decade of State of Colorado and other potential young fans lost. It is a deficit that needs to be made up in short order as our older fan base starts croaking (no reference to DBT). I think exposure is of the utmost importance and am concerned as well. For the moment, your rampage is warranted.

Thank you for your support and I agree we might have lost a decade of new CU fans. My biggest fear is that CU could become the Minnesota of the Pac-12. The Gophers were powerful before the 1960's until the adminstration decided football wasn't important. I don't know enough about Gopher football but I wonder at what point the Gopher fanbase quit caring about football. I believe the CU fanbase hasn't reached that point yet but I don't know how far off the CU fanbase could be from that point where only the diehards care about their football team.

 

[14er]

ComcastTeds:

Online access is restricted to customers who have PAC12 Network in their TV package whether you have Comcast or Cox or Bighthouse or any video service provider.

That is a contractual requirement from PAC12 Network that preserves their advertising revenue and subscriber count and is an incentive for cable systems to offer the channel.

If you want more information about that aspect and restriction, I would encourage you to contact PAC12 Network directly http://support.pac-12.com/home

Generally, having online access as a part of your video subscription level is pretty typical to preserve the networks business model which is typically tied to both ad revenue and subscriber fees.

Online streaming of PAC 12 Network from Comcast is expected in early September.

...

 

[NashBuff]

...

I do have Comcast so I know I will get online streaming but I believe I am speaking for CU fans and other Pac-12 fans outside of the Pac-12's footprint. I don't have DTV but will DTV customers be able to FULLY enjoy the Pac-12 Network such as the online streaming stuff?

I can only wonder how much more apatheic the Arizona and Arizona State fanbase would have been had the Cardinals won that Super Bowl. The same can be applied here and in Seattle since the Seahawks went to a Super Bowl while the Huskies haven't been that great on the football field. The other BCS conferences don't have this kind of competition from the NFL like the Pac-12 has.

Some of you said the Pac-12 isn't competiting against the NFL and that is correct in some ways but the NFL's Goodwell is raping the Pac-12's Scott in the exposure department at this time.

 

[rodrigo]

...at this time.

Key words, IMHO. The squeaky wheel and all that...

 

[Quattro]

Find it funny that people expected the network to be 100% a few weeks after launch.

 

[NashBuff]

Find it funny that people expected the network to be 100% a few weeks after launch.

You think CU being the Minnesota of the Pac-12 is funny? Be careful there, you could be reaping that down the road...oh wait you are a Bammer fan too? Never mind then.

 

[Darth Snow]

You think CU being the Minnesota of the Pac-12 is funny? Be careful there, you could be reaping that down the road...oh wait you are a Bammer fan too? Never mind then.

you make no sense, MWC fan.

 

[Quattro]

You think CU being the Minnesota of the Pac-12 is funny? Be careful there, you could be reaping that down the road...oh wait you are a Bammer fan too? Never mind then.

Yes because the PAC 12 network not firing on all cylinders within weeks of it laughing clearly means that CU is going to be the Minnesota of the PAC 12...

 

[Darian3Hagan]

Buy season tickets so you can see at least 6 games Nash.

 

[InTheBuff]

Find it funny that people expected the network to be 100% a few weeks after launch.

I expected DirecTV to have their schidt together in time for Saturday. I'm not going to be overly upset until I miss a game. Since I'm here in Colorado I will be at the Sac St game but many here may miss that one. I suppose the deadline for me is Sept 22 when CU probably will be on the Pac 12 Net on the road at Wazzu. If it's not on DirecTV by then I will lose it.

 

[Timbuff10]

What the rams are doing is irrelevant... they are essentially paying channel 20 to get their games on the air. Say the Buffs wanted 7 games on the same channel... would you rather pay $$ for that, or receive $10-15 million dollars? hmmm.

yeah it's very possible the p12 is asking for too much from DTV, but again that's because they are trying to maximize their money.

You seem to think that you are the one getting the $10-$15 Million in cash... Just because some marketing genius hired by the PAC12 told the PAC that they could get X amount of money, doesn't mean that it is money in the bank for these schools.

I say what the Rams are doing is very relevant. For the average Joe sitting around on a Saturday on the Front Range, he is going to watch the Rams because he isn't paying all this extra money to have the right provider and the extra sports packages that in the end cost over $100 a month on just the cable bill. Sure, many die hard Buff fans will pay this, but they are already fans. Meanwhile, while the school is making a good check from the PAC, the locals are turning into Ram fans and snubbing their noses at the elitist CU Buffs. What a way to expand the brand. Just imagine if the Rams win 7 or 8 games and we win 4. Other than Allbufffs posters, who is watching CU games?

 

[leftybuff]

I am about ready to say to heck with it and get comcast....