Reluctance to let old heroes lose

[Gold]

And let new ones in. Or even have new heroes. This is why I'm so pissed this morning. U of A is a known basketball commodity. They've built the legacy of winning through the years, and in times of need, they get to draw from that legacy to use for their advantage, right or wrong. In this case, extremely wrong. There are many people who are now in positions of influence who grew up watching U of A win. On the meta level, that means something that's hard to quantify, but is influential.

The sport of college basketball will never grow beyond its circle of 20 or so teams if it continues to work at this level.

CU is a newcomer, and frankly, to the outside world, we're no ones hero. Kids didn't grow up watching CU Bball hoping they'd win. To a degree, we were the villain last night, and dressed in black. Stereotypes aside, there's a major hurdle we have to overcome beyond just the play on the court. We need people to WANT us to win. This is why C-Unit is so important. They show we have entertaining, and flat out good character. We don't get to the level of U of A without recruits and a fan base/students out to prove that liking CU is a good thing. For everyone.

This is why Tad is so important. You want him to win. He's a good guy who loves his team. He looks like he could star in Hoosiers part 2.

Theres a reason why Superman, Batman, Iron Man always prevail in the end. People hate seeing their heroes lose. The refs, whether subconsciously or explicitly, were not ready to see a new hero enter the ring. They clung to the old images and footage of U of A prevailing, despite the evidence that shows the contrary happened right in front of their eyes.

CU has work to do. Not just on the court. But in the subjective court of public opinion.

 

[Buffnik]

Of course.

I don't think CU fans fully appreciate the lack of national (or even regional) prestige the program has right now. We need to make the tournament again this year and next year. We need to advance.

String together 4 straight years as one of the best programs in the west (1 snub and 3 dances) and CU will be established.

Here's how the world looks at this:

Do it once, it's a blip. (last season's Pac-12 championship and tourney win over UNLV)
Do it twice, it's a trend. (going to the Dance again this year)
Do it three times in a row, it's a fact. (Dance again in 2013-14)

We do that with a 24-win tourney snub ahead of it and anyone we're recruiting will think "CU's always been good" because we have been since they've started paying attention. The national media will be used to seeing us and will have relationships with Tad. The Pac-12 refs will be used to CU, respect CU, and understand our style of play. Boulder will be a place where pretty much everyone in the conference (except Zona and UCLA) pretty much expect to lose.

CU being recognized as a major hoops program can happen and it should happen.

This year we establish the trend. Next year we cement it as fact.

 

[rynobuff]

Of course.

I don't think CU fans fully appreciate the lack of national (or even regional) prestige the program has right now. We need to make the tournament again this year and next year. We need to advance.

String together 4 straight years as one of the best programs in the west (1 snub and 3 dances) and CU will be established.

Here's how the world looks at this:

Do it once, it's a blip. (last season's Pac-12 championship and tourney win over UNLV)
Do it twice, it's a trend. (going to the Dance again this year)
Do it three times in a row, it's a fact. (Dance again in 2013-14)

We do that with a 24-win tourney snub ahead of it and anyone we're recruiting will think "CU's always been good" because we have been since they've started paying attention. The national media will be used to seeing us and will have relationships with Tad. The Pac-12 refs will be used to CU, respect CU, and understand our style of play. Boulder will be a place where pretty much everyone in the conference (except Zona and UCLA) pretty much expect to lose.

CU being recognized as a major hoops program can happen and it should happen.

This year we establish the trend. Next year we cement it as fact.

:thumbsup:

 

[Buffalo Brad]

Of course.

I don't think CU fans fully appreciate the lack of national (or even regional) prestige the program has right now. We need to make the tournament again this year and next year. We need to advance.

String together 4 straight years as one of the best programs in the west (1 snub and 3 dances) and CU will be established.

Here's how the world looks at this:

Do it once, it's a blip. (last season's Pac-12 championship and tourney win over UNLV)
Do it twice, it's a trend. (going to the Dance again this year)
Do it three times in a row, it's a fact. (Dance again in 2013-14)

We do that with a 24-win tourney snub ahead of it and anyone we're recruiting will think "CU's always been good" because we have been since they've started paying attention. The national media will be used to seeing us and will have relationships with Tad. The Pac-12 refs will be used to CU, respect CU, and understand our style of play. Boulder will be a place where pretty much everyone in the conference (except Zona and UCLA) pretty much expect to lose.

CU being recognized as a major hoops program can happen and it should happen.

This year we establish the trend. Next year we cement it as fact.

This is how it is done and the Buffs are on the path. With the chip on their shoulder now, and they play best when they feel like they have been slighted or are an underdog, I see them using Thursday as the launching pad to do some damage in the PAC this season. Take care of business one game at a time and they establish the trend as Nik says. The success is paying off already in recruiting and you cannot place a price on the positive pub the program is getting nationally right now. Establish and Cement needs to be the mantra for the Buffs moving forward.

 

[Gold]

Well said Nik.

This game was like the movie Rocky. Did the Apollo Wildcats deserve to win? No. They know it. We know it. Even though the record books will show it as a win for them, we all know who won this match.

Fast forward a few years, we'll hold the title belt, run on the beach in slo-motion against them, have a caged tiger in our house, and even have a robot servant for the holidays.

I'm off the gym and going to listen to the Rocky soundtrack.

 

[Junction]

Well said Nik.

This game was like the movie Rocky. Did the Apollo Wildcats deserve to win? No. They know it. We know it. Even though the record books will show it as a win for them, we all know who won this match.

Fast forward a few years, we'll hold the title belt, run on the beach in slo-motion against them, have a caged tiger in our house, and even have a robot servant for the holidays.

I'm off the gym and going to listen to the Rocky soundtrack.

So you're saying our wife is going to die? :sad1:

 

[WizzersGhost]

Of course.

I don't think CU fans fully appreciate the lack of national (or even regional) prestige the program has right now. We need to make the tournament again this year and next year. We need to advance.

String together 4 straight years as one of the best programs in the west (1 snub and 3 dances) and CU will be established.

Here's how the world looks at this:

Do it once, it's a blip. (last season's Pac-12 championship and tourney win over UNLV)
Do it twice, it's a trend. (going to the Dance again this year)
Do it three times in a row, it's a fact. (Dance again in 2013-14)

We do that with a 24-win tourney snub ahead of it and anyone we're recruiting will think "CU's always been good" because we have been since they've started paying attention. The national media will be used to seeing us and will have relationships with Tad. The Pac-12 refs will be used to CU, respect CU, and understand our style of play. Boulder will be a place where pretty much everyone in the conference (except Zona and UCLA) pretty much expect to lose.

CU being recognized as a major hoops program can happen and it should happen.

This year we establish the trend. Next year we cement it as fact.

Last night's happening actually goes a quite a ways along that path: almost all national sports commentators this morning were remarking that CU got screwed after playing a great game on the road. That certainly helps in gaining notoriety for your program, particularly when your coach handles it with class.

 

[CVilleBuff]

I was hoping that the Pac-12, despite its reputation for atrocious officiating, didn't have a blatant bias towards the top teams like I've witnessed year after year in the ACC with Duke and Carolina blatantly getting favorable calls (this is simply fact). Last night was a rude awakening. Robbery.

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

A team can break into that "fave" status.

Look no further than the team the Buffs just played -- they were a nobody until Lute Olsen arrived. They are now considered a one of the premier programs.

It can be done.

 

[UACat]

Last night's happening actually goes a quite a ways along that path: almost all national sports commentators this morning were remarking that CU got screwed after playing a great game on the road. That certainly helps in gaining notoriety for your program, particularly when your coach handles it with class.

Your coach is calling for all of instant replay to be banned in all sports. He also said something about calling the head of Pac-12 refs demanding an explanation. I'm not saying I don't understand his anger, but let's not pretend like he's going Mother Theresa over this.

 

[Buffnik]

Your coach is calling for all of instant replay to be banned in all sports. He also said something about calling the head of Pac-12 refs demanding an explanation. I'm not saying I don't understand his anger, but let's not pretend like he's going Mother Theresa over this.

He's not. I think we're all surprised. Tad will usually let you know he's pissed, he won't ever stop being pissed, but immediately channel that to the task at hand. None of us expected him to do anything more than talk about execution, free throws, learning from this and not ever putting the game in the hands of the refs, etc.... then quickly transitioning to talk about ASU. Since it's so unusual for him, I'm assuming that he was shown a clear image after the initial interview that proved the refs botched the call. I'd also assume that he has never been a replay fan for any sport, which would fit because he's not a tech and gadget guy.

 

[UACat]

He's not. I think we're all surprised. Tad will usually let you know he's pissed, he won't ever stop being pissed, but immediately channel that to the task at hand. None of us expected him to do anything more than talk about execution, free throws, learning from this and not ever putting the game in the hands of the refs, etc.... then quickly transitioning to talk about ASU. Since it's so unusual for him, I'm assuming that he was shown a clear image after the initial interview that proved the refs botched the call. I'd also assume that he has never been a replay fan for any sport, which would fit because he's not a tech and gadget guy.

It seems that way. He admitted in the interview that he's always hated replay, which seems a little crazy to me. This is one bad call. Replay helps refs to make the right call the vast majority of the time. Doing away with it would make every game as bad as this one was.

 

[Buffnik]

It seems that way. He admitted in the interview that he's always hated replay, which seems a little crazy to me. This is one bad call. Replay helps refs to make the right call the vast majority of the time. Doing away with it would make every game as bad as this one was.

Yeah. I like replay. One change I'd like to see, though, is a time limit. If you can't figure it out within 2 minutes (standard commercial break), then it's not definitive and the call on the field or court should stand. Maybe call it 3 minutes to give the guys in the production booth time to set things up.

Tad's a little too old school on this one.

 

[UACat]

Yeah. I like replay. One change I'd like to see, though, is a time limit. If you can't figure it out within 2 minutes (standard commercial break), then it's not definitive and the call on the field or court should stand. Maybe call it 3 minutes to give the guys in the production booth time to set things up.

Tad's a little too old school on this one.

Well everyone keeps saying let the call stand. Is it definitive the initial call was that the basket counted? To me the refs looked unsure the moment it went in, and immediately waved everyone back to the benches. The didn't put the 3 on the scoreboard until a few seconds before they decided to wave it off so that was weird.

My understanding was that there was no initial call on whether it counted.

 

[Buffnik]

Well everyone keeps saying let the call stand. Is it definitive the initial call was that the basket counted? To me the refs looked unsure the moment it went in, and immediately waved everyone back to the benches. The didn't put the 3 on the scoreboard until a few seconds before they decided to wave it off so that was weird.

My understanding was that there was no initial call on whether it counted.

One ref called it good. ESPN posted the score (as did the Pac-12 web site) as if it was called good. In college basketball, it's kind of weird how it goes with replay. The replay determines the call without bias from what was seen or called on the court. If it's not definitive on the video, then they go with what was called on the court.

The refs say that they had a definitive image, so they didn't have to revert to the on-court call.

Even though that's a unique way of approaching replay vis a vis other sports, in my hypothetical rule change it wouldn't cause much of a rewrite to the book.

 

[Goose]

Well everyone keeps saying let the call stand. Is it definitive the initial call was that the basket counted? To me the refs looked unsure the moment it went in, and immediately waved everyone back to the benches. The didn't put the 3 on the scoreboard until a few seconds before they decided to wave it off so that was weird.

My understanding was that there was no initial call on whether it counted.

I thought the same, but on ESPN this morning they actually froze the tape & highlighted the ref at the bottom signaling that the shot was good.

All along I've thought that the video wasn't enough to overturn whatever the call on the court was. It appears that call was basket good. But that call and $5 will get me a coffee at Starbucks so it's time to move on.