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SEC vs. Pac 12

ahoelsken

ahoelsken

Well-Known Member
We've heard a lot about the SEC bias, and there have been a number of people here who say our league can eat itself alive and pay for it, while the SEC does the same thing and gets away with it. My take is this: The top of the SEC is better than our top (and the Big 12 for that matter, but they haven't joined the rest of us and instituted a CCG), but overall, I think we're slightly better. If these games played out, who would win? (SEC East vs. Pac 12 North and SEC West vs. Pac 12 South-given that our division had five of the six teams in it ranked last week, I thought saying it was the stronger of the two was an easier call. Also, as there are 14 teams in the SEC and 12 here, I thought using CU and Wazzu against the 6th and 7th place teams in the respective SEC divisions to avoid a tie. Here goes, and I bolded my opinion:

Georgia/Oregon
Missouri/Stanford
Kentucky/Cal
Florida/Washington
South Carolina/Oregon State
Tennessee/Wazzu
Vandy/Wazzu

Mississippi State/Arizona State
Ole Miss/Arizona-had the toughest time with this one
Alabama/Utah
Auburn/USC
LSU/UCLA
Texas A&M/Colorado
Arkansas/Colorado
 
The SEC shows it's superiority in all those difficult out of conference games they play each year.

No question that the SEC deserves recognition for the success they have had in the post season in recent years. They have some quality teams.

At the same time this idea that the SEC is great because they beat other SEC teams and at the same time PAC teams get knocked down for losing to PAC teams is ridiculous.

 
MtnBuff said:
The SEC shows it's superiority in all those difficult out of conference games they play each year.

No question that the SEC deserves recognition for the success they have had in the post season in recent years. They have some quality teams.

At the same time this idea that the SEC is great because they beat other SEC teams and at the same time PAC teams get knocked down for losing to PAC teams is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

What success? When was the last time the SEC defeated a higher ranked team in Bowl play? It's been years.

When was the last time a team from another conference beat a higher ranked SEC team in a Bowl? Every.damn.year.
 
Orr said:
What success? When was the last time the SEC defeated a higher ranked team in Bowl play? It's been years.

When was the last time a team from another conference beat a higher ranked SEC team in a Bowl? Every.damn.year.
Click to expand...

Please note sarcasm font.
 
Orr said:
I don't think "success" fell under the umbrella of the sarcasm font.
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They have managed to win a few NC games. Not as many as you would think from the ESPN coverage but they have won.

They have also lost some BCS bowl games as has every other conference.

Point is that they deserve recognition for being an excellent conference but the idea that they are above and apart from the rest of college football doesn't hold up.

At this point in time which one loss SEC team has an OOC win as good as Oregon's win against Mich State.
 
MtnBuff said:
They have managed to win a few NC games. Not as many as you would think from the ESPN coverage but they have won.

They have also lost some BCS bowl games as has every other conference.

Point is that they deserve recognition for being an excellent conference but the idea that they are above and apart from the rest of college football doesn't hold up.

At this point in time which one loss SEC team has an OOC win as good as Oregon's win against Mich State.
Click to expand...

You're missing the point. They've won NC games, because they were the one-loss teams (from all of the conferences) that were put in a position to play in them. That's the point of the "overrated" tag. They are consistently ranked above teams from other conferences with the same records--but in bowl games when those teams meet, the result doesn't support the ranking.
 
The problem is that the SEC rarely plays OOC games against other p5 teams so you can't get much data.

1. Vanderbilt

2. Mississippi State

3. Florida

4. Alabama

5. Texas A&M





 
Colorado Track Fan said:
The problem is that the SEC rarely plays OOC games against other p5 teams so you can't get much data.

1. Vanderbilt

2. Mississippi State

3. Florida

4. Alabama

5. Texas A&M
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This is what I was refering to earlier.

The total OOC schedules of these 5 teams include 2 legitimate P5 opponents. Florida playing FSU which is a traditional match-up and Bama playing WVU. Also notice that none of these games involve leaving the south to play and only 4 of them are not in the SEC teams home stadium.
 
Colorado Track Fan said:
The problem is that the SEC rarely plays OOC games against other p5 teams so you can't get much data.
Click to expand...

And they get a huge amount of collective credit when they do win those OOC games. The whole SEC is benefiting from Alabama and LSU beating West Virginia and Wisconsin. Good wins, sure, but they prop up the entire conference and get Ole Miss and Miss. State into the playoff.
 
Darth Snow said:
not sure throttle is the right word, but damn, you've completely flip flopped on the SEC since Florida went into the dumps.
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I knew the east was going to be trash, I honestly thought UF could come out and be the shiny turd of the **** pile.

The west is overated.
 
MtnBuff said:
This is what I was refering to earlier.

The total OOC schedules of these 5 teams include 2 legitimate P5 opponents. Florida playing FSU which is a traditional match-up and Bama playing WVU. Also notice that none of these games involve leaving the south to play and only 4 of them are not in the SEC teams home stadium.
Click to expand...

I believe that the SEC is typically the strongest conference, but the margin is small. Look at bowl games (SEC vs. P5) and OOC regular season games. SEC has the edge, but the edge is not very large.

Auburn (a team coming off the national championship game and i top ranked team this year) beat KSU in a VERY close game. Those two teams are evenly matched. Bama, the cream of the SEC, had all they could handle from WVU this year. Tennessee got their asses kicked by Oklahoma. Vandy lost to Temple! Missouri lost to Indiana! LSU beat Wisconsin 28-24. Arkansas beat the hell out of Texas Tech, but Tech also gave up 82 to TCU last week.

The data is just not there to support the super-conference claims. At least I don't think so
 
Colorado Track Fan said:
I believe that the SEC is typically the strongest conference, but the margin is small. Look at bowl games (SEC vs. P5) and OOC regular season games. SEC has the edge, but the edge is not very large.

Auburn (a team coming off the national championship game and i top ranked team this year) beat KSU in a VERY close game. Those two teams are evenly matched. Bama, the cream of the SEC, had all they could handle from WVU this year. Tennessee got their asses kicked by Oklahoma. Vandy lost to Temple! Missouri lost to Indiana! LSU beat Wisconsin 28-24. Arkansas beat the hell out of Texas Tech, but Tech also gave up 82 to TCU last week.

The data is just not there to support the super-conference claims. At least I don't think so
Click to expand...

And this is why the committee trying to say that 4 of the top 6 teams are SEC teams is B.S. No question they have some excellent teams, they don't have a monopoly on them though. The idea that they are better simply because they are SEC isn't supported by the results.
 
Keep in mind that the P12 has 6 more potential losses every year than the SEC thanks to the 9 game conference schedule versus their 8 game schedule. At the end of the year, almost nobody talks about that.
 
buffedup said:
Keep in mind that the P12 has 6 more potential losses every year than the SEC thanks to the 9 game conference schedule versus their 8 game schedule. At the end of the year, almost nobody talks about that.
Click to expand...

Very good point.

If the PAC worked like the SEC each school would have one less conference game and replace it with a Big Sky or Sun Belt game. Make everybody's record look better.
 
I'd prefer 9 conference games. I think it's absolutely asinine a 14 team conference decided to play 8. But if playing 9 is going to hurt the PAC come playoff selection, we need to figure it out. It's not going to help. PAC should really push public shame towards the SEC. Force the narrative

From phone
 
MtnBuff said:
Very good point.

If the PAC worked like the SEC each school would have one less conference game and replace it with a Big Sky or Sun Belt game. Make everybody's record look better.
Click to expand...

Well most everybody. :keule:
 
The MNC thing cuts both ways. Yes, SEC teams were invited into the BCS title game over teams that were equally or even more deserving, but those teams did in fact win those games. You could certainly make an argument that there were more deserving teams than the SEC representative in 2003, 2006, and 2007. Then you had the bull**** LSU-Bama rematch in 2011, but even then Bama won and probably in the eyes of the idiot voters made it more rational to have two SEC teams in. (Even though they specifically down-voted Michigan in 2006 so as to not have a conference re-match. Seeing as how both Ohio St and Michigan lost their bowl games, though - maybe it was the right choice.)
 
Orr said:
You're missing the point. They've won NC games, because they were the one-loss teams (from all of the conferences) that were put in a position to play in them. That's the point of the "overrated" tag. They are consistently ranked above teams from other conferences with the same records--but in bowl games when those teams meet, the result doesn't support the ranking.
Click to expand...

performance in bowl games is not a compelling argument. too many coaches, players, admins and even fans view them as nothing more than expensive, glorified scrimmages. coaching bonuses are almost invariably tied to bowl invites, not bowl wins.
 
hokiehead said:
performance in bowl games is not a compelling argument. too many coaches, players, admins and even fans view them as nothing more than expensive, glorified scrimmages. coaching bonuses are almost invariably tied to bowl invites, not bowl wins.
Click to expand...

I'd say if you look at individual games, that's true. But I believe you can look at broad trends and make inferences about the relative quality of conferences by the season's end.

Otherwise, you would deduce that the SEC teams don't give a **** about winning bowl games and everybody else does, based on relative performance.
 
TDbuff said:
And they get a huge amount of collective credit when they do win those OOC games. The whole SEC is benefiting from Alabama and LSU beating West Virginia and Wisconsin. Good wins, sure, but they prop up the entire conference and get Ole Miss and Miss. State into the playoff.
Click to expand...

You're forgetting about a road win at #9 KSU (Auburn), a home win against #21 Clemson (UGA), and a home win against #23 ECU by one of the middle tier SEC teams, South Carolina. And Ole Miss beat the best team in the MWC to this point.

In the Pac-12 Oregon has beat Michigan State. The Pac-12 has nothing to offer as far as good OOC wins after that.
 
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CarolinaBuff said:
You're forgetting about a road win at #9 KSU (Auburn), a home win against #21 Clemson (UGA), and a home win against #23 ECU by one of the middle tier SEC teams, South Carolina. And Ole Miss beat the best team in the MWC to this point.

In the Pac-12 Oregon has beat Michigan State. The Pac-12 has nothing to offer as far as good OOC wins after that.
Click to expand...

We beat Umass by like 3 points!!!
 
CarolinaBuff said:
You're forgetting about a road win at #9 KSU (Auburn), a home win against #21 Clemson (UGA), and a home win against #23 ECU by one of the middle tier SEC teams, South Carolina. And Ole Miss beat the best team in the MWC to this point.

In the Pac-12 Oregon has beat Michigan State. The Pac-12 has nothing to offer as far as good OOC wins after that.
Click to expand...

Your blind loyalty to southern football is showing.

Yes the K-State win is impressive. Based on recent schedules it's a miracle that an SEC power team went out of the league footprint to play a game. The others you mention are all in the footprint, and almost always played at home.

Teams bounce up and down on a year to year basis but this season Cal beat Northwestern on the road and later this year plays a BYU team that would likely have been top 25 if their QB didn't get hurt.

Oregon beat Mich State, Stanford lost by a FG at Notre Dame, Washington beat Illinois, Arizona State plays Notre Dame later in the year, UCLA won at Virginia and at Texas, USC travelled all the way across the country to play BC (lost) and also plays Notre Dame to end the season. Utah won at Michigan.

The SEC wouldn't play that many P5 opponents, especially if it involved travel for a home and home in 10 years.

As I stated before the SEC has some very good teams. I just don't buy the SEC greater than everyone else because they beat SEC teams.

In addition to playing one less conference game most of them have OOC schedules that are an embarrassment most years.
 
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