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The SEC and oversigning

SBG

Administrator
Club Member
Junta Member
Started this in another thread.

Read this. Pretty scathing.

http://oversigning.com/testing/

SEC football is ****ing great. I love a lot of it and the tradition. But there's an underbelly to it.

Love the part about Bama's march to 85. Just another reason I couldn't put them in the MNC.
 
I am also against oversigning, but until they make a rule (like <=85 but also yearly limit to # seniors, maybe plus a couple for attrition) then you could always argue you are just keeping up with the competition. 21 medical hardships is just a bad joke, though.
 
The 'March to 85' is deceiving at best. Scholarships are not made public and a lot of fringe guys dont have schollys (Wes Neighbors was a walk-on 99% sure) so this is a 'best guess' by his part. Several of those players from last year were kicked off and transferred for 'violating team rules' ie repeatedly testing positive for pot. CNS has kicked off a senior starter for this before. Some simply transferred because they didn't see playing time (Corey Grant-nobody wanted him to leave). Also if you transfer to a CC it is probably grade related. I think two of those guys from last year's chart would be starting if they weren't kicked off the team. It is not just about making room for incoming players.
 
Bama Charlie said:
The 'March to 85' is deceiving at best. Scholarships are not made public and a lot of fringe guys dont have schollys (Wes Neighbors was a walk-on 99% sure) so this is a 'best guess' by his part. Several of those players from last year were kicked off and transferred for 'violating team rules' ie repeatedly testing positive for pot. CNS has kicked off a senior starter for this before. Some simply transferred because they didn't see playing time (Corey Grant-nobody wanted him to leave). Also if you transfer to a CC it is probably grade related. I think two of those guys from last year's chart would be starting if they weren't kicked off the team. It is not just about making room for incoming players.
Click to expand...

If it were a few guys and it was only in certain years you could make this argument but the sheer numbers and frequency of this happening shows that it is all about making room for incoming players. This is obvious to anyone except those who are fanatical enough supporters of their teams to ignore the obvious as long as they win. We saw lots of this in this part of the country when OU had more drugs and guns on campus than a small Mexican cartel, when Nebraska was taking 190lb farm kids and turning them into 300lb linemen in two years while denying steroid use, more recently at SC when Reggie Bush's family was living in a house the school chancellor couldn't afford and driving new SUVs.

Charlie, you are a Bama fan, thus what Bama does is right and explainable. If this were Auburn doing exactly the same thing while Bama wasn't you would be at the front of the line crying about them cheating. Since both of you are doing it you just would rather not talk about it and explain it away if you are called on it.
 
MtnBuff said:
If it were a few guys and it was only in certain years you could make this argument but the sheer numbers and frequency of this happening shows that it is all about making room for incoming players. This is obvious to anyone except those who are fanatical enough supporters of their teams to ignore the obvious as long as they win. We saw lots of this in this part of the country when OU had more drugs and guns on campus than a small Mexican cartel, when Nebraska was taking 190lb farm kids and turning them into 300lb linemen in two years while denying steroid use, more recently at SC when Reggie Bush's family was living in a house the school chancellor couldn't afford and driving new SUVs.

Charlie, you are a Bama fan, thus what Bama does is right and explainable. If this were Auburn doing exactly the same thing while Bama wasn't you would be at the front of the line crying about them cheating. Since both of you are doing it you just would rather not talk about it and explain it away if you are called on it.
Click to expand...

I can go through that list and tell you the situation of every player if you like. There have been three players that did not want the medical scholly but none of them ever played anywhere again. One couldn't even get a D2 school to clear him to play. This is the 'where there is smoke there is fire' logic. CNS gets rid of troublemakers and pot smokers. He doesn't pull schollys of non-performers as this implies. There are two players on that list that were starting when they decided to transfer. That means they were kicked off the team and allowed to transfer to save face.
 
Bama Charlie said:
I can go through that list and tell you the situation of every player if you like. There have been three players that did not want the medical scholly but none of them ever played anywhere again. One couldn't even get a D2 school to clear him to play. This is the 'where there is smoke there is fire' logic. CNS gets rid of troublemakers and pot smokers. He doesn't pull schollys of non-performers as this implies. There are two players on that list that were starting when they decided to transfer. That means they were kicked off the team and allowed to transfer to save face.
Click to expand...

This post just proves my point. Bama players could kill little handicapped kids puppies and you would find a way to justify it and try to make it sound ethical. The first name on your handle says everything that we need to know about your perspective and loyalties.
 
I am now having a hard time deciding between Mother Theresa and CNS ....
 
The SEC is just minor league NFL. They don't care about the college aspect of the game. Just win baby! That is all their fans care about. Academics, sportsmanship, and teaching be dammed!
 
MtnBuff said:
This post just proves my point. Bama players could kill little handicapped kids puppies and you would find a way to justify it and try to make it sound ethical. The first name on your handle says everything that we need to know about your perspective and loyalties.
Click to expand...

Did you even bother to read what I posted? SOME OF THE PLAYERS ON YOUR LIST WERE STARTERS. Why would kick off a starter to make room for an incoming freshman? The guy that make the biggest stink of the medical scholarship could not get a clearance to play for a Division 2 school. Your thought experiment on this is clouded by your SEC/Bama butthurt. You are simply not objective and don't want to hear facts.
 
dply said:
The SEC is just minor league NFL. They don't care about the college aspect of the game. Just win baby! That is all their fans care about. Academics, sportsmanship, and teaching be dammed!
Click to expand...

It seems like you guys had your own scandal recently. So nice you can throw rocks again.
 
Bama Charlie said:
Did you even bother to read what I posted? SOME OF THE PLAYERS ON YOUR LIST WERE STARTERS. Why would kick off a starter to make room for an incoming freshman? The guy that make the biggest stink of the medical scholarship could not get a clearance to play for a Division 2 school. Your thought experiment on this is clouded by your SEC/Bama butthurt. You are simply not objective and don't want to hear facts.
Click to expand...

Read it entirely and it is a bunch of crap. Why is it that Bama has these numbers when other schools only have a few, and they have them on a consistent basis.

Charlie your crimson lenses are coloring your view again, if you want someone to agree with you, take it to a Bama board.
 
MtnBuff said:
Read it entirely and it is a bunch of crap. Why is it that Bama has these numbers when other schools only have a few, and they have them on a consistent basis.

Charlie your crimson lenses are coloring your view again, if you want someone to agree with you, take it to a Bama board.
Click to expand...

I don't care if you do agree but it is a fact. We lose kids to grades, pot, and not getting playing time. You want to see something and you do.
 
I dunno how many rocks we want to throw in this thread...Coach Embree has not been shy about moving guys on that have had "issues" or don't buy in for whatever reason
 
SuperD said:
I dunno how many rocks we want to throw in this thread...Coach Embree has not been shy about moving guys on that have had "issues" or don't buy in for whatever reason
Click to expand...

Excellent point. I try not to call out CU directly but I remember threads on here about getting certain players off campus. I think this thread is dead now.
 
SuperD said:
I dunno how many rocks we want to throw in this thread...Coach Embree has not been shy about moving guys on that have had "issues" or don't buy in for whatever reason
Click to expand...

Apples and oranges comparison. I have not seen CU over-sign in years. So moving guys out that do not buy in or have issues is another thing. But moving guys out who do buy in and have no issues is a totally different conversation. They are moving guys out simply because they do not make the two deep....it is an ethical issue.
 
this has been going on for years and not just sec teams. we just happen to root for a team that tries to do thing right.
 
I sure hope embree is doing this. Many of the players on the roster are not Pac 12 football players and shouldn't be given free rides for their poor football skills. Embree is paid to win football games which means he needs to bring in the best talent so we can win games.
 
Bama Charlie said:
I don't care if you do agree but it is a fact. We lose kids to grades, pot, and not getting playing time. You want to see something and you do.
Click to expand...

Bama: I like having you on here and enjoy an SEC die-hard perspective but I am a bit curious. What is your fascination with the Buffs? Family, live in Denver, know a player? Just curious, brother.
 
JimmyBuff said:
I sure hope embree is doing this. Many of the players on the roster are not Pac 12 football players and shouldn't be given free rides for their poor football skills. Embree is paid to win football games which means he needs to bring in the best talent so we can win games.
Click to expand...

I can think of many players on scholarship that I'd just assume weren't. However, it really seems unethical to me to make up some kind of contrived story about them being medically unable to perform to get their scholarship back.
 
Wyo Buff said:
Bama: I like having you on here and enjoy an SEC die-hard perspective but I am a bit curious. What is your fascination with the Buffs? Family, live in Denver, know a player? Just curious, brother.
Click to expand...

I dated a chick with family in Denver. We were going to go to a Buffs game. I found a free website about CU football. I asked questions about gameday etc. A different perspective on college football was refreshing. The next year we played you guys in the Indy Bowl. I meet some of you guys and girls there and dropped Illinois as my second favorite team and picked up the Buffs. I have dropped by for several years now.
 
BlackNGold said:
Apples and oranges comparison. I have not seen CU over-sign in years. So moving guys out that do not buy in or have issues is another thing. But moving guys out who do buy in and have no issues is a totally different conversation. They are moving guys out simply because they do not make the two deep....it is an ethical issue.
Click to expand...

If CNS does not have a spot for a kid he will grayshirt him and give him a scholly the next year. We have never left a kid hanging-they know (because they have said it in interviews) their scholarship is contingent on attrition. If he doesn't want to wait he can take one somewhere else. We are talking tops five per year. UA has lost kids because they did not want to greyshirt so I know he is up front with them. You understand we are talking the marginal 20-25 slots anyway. The 5-stars and 4-stars are getting their scholarship. I really don't understand why people think this is 'evil'.
 
JimmyBuff said:
I sure hope embree is doing this. Many of the players on the roster are not Pac 12 football players and shouldn't be given free rides for their poor football skills. Embree is paid to win football games which means he needs to bring in the best talent so we can win games.
Click to expand...

when I said "right" I should have said trying to be fair to players - not cool to sign a bunch of kids by lying to them then yank the rug out... need to recruit kids that have legit shots of playing time and bring competition
 
Nice job telling an injured kid with only a couple of weeks left until signing day. Defend him if you want but Saban is a POS and this kid will never be a part of that team.
 
This is the ugly side of recruiting.... And I argue it is heightened in the SEC. We have to keep in mind that coaches are constantly trying to improve their status amongst boosters, fans and administration. That support is key to keeping a job, gaining extensions and boosted pay. Recruiting success, especially class ranking is maybe not as important as wins vs losses,but when you don't post good recruiting classes, we as fans get more nervous about the future of the team and that coaches ability to compete. Three of the top five ranked classes this year were SEC schools. No doubt saban and staff evaluated the talent they recruited, but I'm convinced many of the recruits are brought in because they are so highly ranked (thus boosting the ranking of the class). Rivals, scout, et al don't rank based on any academic standard to my knowledge, just football ability. The result... A top ranked recruiting class every year (4*and 5* recruits that ensure saban cred amongst supporters), and several academic or "other" casualties each year to allow 25+ spots to be recruited with new 4*/5* recruits next year. Personally, I think if a school is recruiting kids early they should bear the burden of risk once the kid verbals. I respect the commitment that embo made to Williams and crowder, but we didn't have a dozen 5* ranked kids knocking on the door either. Embo is rebuilding, his word needs to matter, his kids need to succeed at CU. I think Saban is a POS, but i cant deny his success and few would question his recruiting tactics...he plays the game well, is loved by his fans and has success on the field... It's a business in the SEC and he is good for business!
 
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