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Tough Times in the near term...

BlackNGold

BlackNGold

Club Member
After the spring scrimmage (if you want to call it that) I have come to realize just how depleted the Buffs are talent wise. The extra year of Dan Hawkins might of set the program back more time then the one extra year he was given. It resulted in multiple recruiting classes that were below par. This team has a lot holes and is HOPING for a lot of help from the incoming class.

When I step back and try to look at it objectively, I see a team that needs a lot of things to break right just to get to 6 wins. Here is what the team is hoping for:

  • The Hope - Improve QB Play. The Reality - right now the team has no QB with much game experience (that could change with Webb). Hirschmann has battle health issues, Dillion will be a true Frosh. Wood go a lot of practice snaps but his lack of experience showed through which is not encouraging.
  • The Hope - Someone steps up to play TE. The Reality - Kasa and Slavin are the only two scholarship TEs returning and neither of them has much game experience at the position which means that probably 2 true Frosh will be getting playing time at that position.
  • The Hope - someone will step up to play the running back position. Reality - the running backs are functional but are not going to force any opposing DCs to gameplan around stopping them.
  • The Hope - Someone will step up at Wide Receiver. The Reality - even the returning players have little game experience. Luckily this is a skill position that many times a true frosh can come in and contribute if they have the skill set. I really hope that Darden and Spruce can step up.
  • The Hope - Depth will develop from the incoming class for the DLine. The Reality - this is a really tough position for a true Frosh to come in and play right away.

I can go on with the DBs etc. but everyone knows the story. I have not even touched on special teams.

This team has some good players but there are also holes and the holes are what kill you. I really believe this team can win 6 games but I also realize that because of the holes that may not happen. Add to all this the fact there are very few seniors on this team to lead them. I think everyone knows that when you play a lot of freshmen you have to suffer through some of their mistakes.
 
BlackNGold said:
After the spring scrimmage (if you want to call it that) I have come to realize just how depleted the Buffs are talent wise. The extra year of Dan Hawkins might of set the program back more time then the one extra year he was given. It resulted in multiple recruiting classes that were below par. This team has a lot holes and is HOPING for a lot of help from the incoming class.

When I step back and try to look at it objectively, I see a team that needs a lot of things to break right just to get to 6 wins. Here is what the team is hoping for:

  • The Hope - Improve QB Play. The Reality - right now the team has no QB with much game experience (that could change with Webb). Hirschmann has battle health issues, Dillion will be a true Frosh. Wood go a lot of practice snaps but his lack of experience showed through which is not encouraging.
  • The Hope - Someone steps up to play TE. The Reality - Kasa and Slavin are the only two scholarship TEs returning and neither of them has much game experience at the position which means that probably 2 true Frosh will be getting playing time at that position.
  • The Hope - someone will step up to play the running back position. Reality - the running backs are functional but are not going to force any opposing DCs to gameplan around stopping them.
  • The Hope - Someone will step up at Wide Receiver. The Reality - even the returning players have little game experience. Luckily this is a skill position that many times a true frosh can come in and contribute if they have the skill set. I really hope that Darden and Spruce can step up.
  • The Hope - Depth will develop from the incoming class for the DLine. The Reality - this is a really tough position for a true Frosh to come in and play right away.

I can go on with the DBs etc. but everyone knows the story. I have not even touched on special teams.

This team has some good players but there are also holes and the holes are what kill you. I really believe this team can win 6 games but I also realize that because of the holes that may not happen. Add to all this the fact there are very few seniors on this team to lead them. I think everyone knows that when you play a lot of freshmen you have to suffer through some of their mistakes.
Click to expand...
This is what aggravates me more than anything I can think of during the MB era.
 
One of those years where you need to prepare yourself for a losing record, hope for a bowl game, and expect to see progress that will have you looking forward to 2013 as a potential breakout year.
 
Buffnik said:
One of those years where you need to prepare yourself for a losing record, hope for a bowl game, and expect to see progress that will have you looking forward to 2013 as a potential breakout year.
Click to expand...

The tough part here is all the fans that aren't familiar with the situation and expect to win right now. Plus every week we'll have to remind ourselves why it is like this rather than get sucked in to Jimmy and other people bitching nonstop about the coaching staff.

I think Embree will get time to show what he can do, but it is going to get ugly off the field before we begin winning I think
 
leftybuff said:
This is what aggravates me more than anything I can think of during the MB era.
Click to expand...

Basically it ended up that we had two years of a "lame duck" coach which really impacted recruiting. The wheels actually started coming off the wagon during the 2008 season and I remember the 2009 game in Folsom against CSU, many fans thought it was time for him to go.

Teams can overcome a down class but when you start stacking them on top one another that ends up being a deep hole that takes time to climb out.
 
Keeping Dan Hawkins around after 2010 ended up setting this program back another 2 years at least.
 
**** that! bowl game or fire everyone!!!!!

where is the outrage?????

i kid. it is likely to be a long year.

i am getting tired of waiting until next year but, objectively, i think it will be very hard for this team to be competitive.
 
BlackNGold said:
Basically it ended up that we had two years of a "lame duck" coach which really impacted recruiting. The wheels actually started coming off the wagon during the 2008 season and I remember the 2009 game in Folsom against CSU, many fans thought it was time for him to go.

Teams can overcome a down class but when you start stacking them on top one another that ends up being a deep hole that takes time to climb out.
Click to expand...

I think the asskickings we got from USC, Oregon, and Stanford last year where a bit of a mixed blessing/curse. Any clueless and impatient CU fan that watched those games had to realize how large the talent gulf is between us and top PAC-12 competition, and that we would still be in the rebuilding process in 2012. The Washington, UCLA, and ASU games on the other hand were just pathetic.
 
Buffnik said:
One of those years where you need to prepare yourself for a losing record, hope for a bowl game, and expect to see progress that will have you looking forward to 2013 as a potential breakout year.
Click to expand...

I think the core fans will bear with it but I also think it is going to end up costing the program some of the more casual fans. I fully expect a significant drop in season ticket sales, there is not much to look forward to from the Buffs based on the past several years and the schedule is not all that compelling. Not like having USC and Oregon on the home schedule.
 
BlackNGold said:
Basically it ended up that we had two years of a "lame duck" coach which really impacted recruiting. The wheels actually started coming off the wagon during the 2008 season and I remember the 2009 game in Folsom against CSU, many fans thought it was time for him to go.

Teams can overcome a down class but when you start stacking them on top one another that ends up being a deep hole that takes time to climb out.
Click to expand...

:nod:

Beyond that, many of the higher-rated guys we did land only signed with CU because they didn't have a lot of other BCS options. Other programs shied away due to character or academic issues. Most of them washed out after they got here if they even played a down (i.e., Nuckols, Givens, Simas, Katoa, et al). Our recruiting classes were actually much worse than they looked on paper.
 
BlackNGold said:
I think the core fans will bear with it but I also think it is going to end up costing the program some of the more casual fans. I fully expect a significant drop in season ticket sales, there is not much to look forward to from the Buffs based on the past several years and the schedule is not all that compelling. Not like having USC and Oregon on the home schedule.
Click to expand...

I disagree - maybe some new season ticket holders from last year will drift away again, but for the most part season ticket holders were already stripped down to the hardiest of the hardy by debacle Dan. This is still a year of new conference visitors, so while not hosting USC/Oregon there will still be draw games such as UCLA and ASU.
I don't think last year pulled in such an overwhelming group of casual fans that we are going to see a backlash this year. Even if the season gets ugly late I believe that Embree's personality and reflection in the way the team handles itself will be enough to keep the majority of fans satisfied through the season. If they shock the world and earn a bid to the Yo' Mamma So Fat bowl then we will have the bandwagon jumpers being heard in the local media - until then there aren't many who care.
 
I won't be spending much time in the Football Forum this fall.
 
The middle part of our schedule - after Wazzu and before 'Zona, if you will - will constitute tough times. But I'm most interested in how well we are playing at the end of the season. Those last three games will give us the best indicator of how much more climbing we have to do. Start 3-0, don't get completely killed/injured/bruised during the meat of the schedule, then sweep the last three games. Success.
 
TimmyDUBs said:
The tough part here is all the fans that aren't familiar with the situation and expect to win right now. Plus every week we'll have to remind ourselves why it is like this rather than get sucked in to Jimmy and other people bitching nonstop about the coaching staff.

I think Embree will get time to show what he can do, but it is going to get ugly off the field before we begin winning I think
Click to expand...

I think the tough part is more that we've been suffering through this since 2006 and the last thing people really want to hear is that we need to wait a couple more years. But, alas, that's just the way it is. Best to expect a struggle and have it be a nice surprise if we make a bowl game.
 
The underlying foundation is unchanged.

Benson is still the president.

Phil DiStephano is still the Chancellor.

Mike Bohn still reports up through that chain of command

The regents aren't any more pro football than they were five or ten years ago.

There is no accountability for the Hawkins year 5.

We were thrown the P12 bone, but Larry Scott is the hero in that deal.

Embree remains one of the lowest paid football coaches in the BCS.

The results you get are based on the goals you set. No one in a leadership position is on record of saying anything more inspiring than a plain vanilla "we expect to compete for the conference championship and play in bowl games."

How fired up would we be if someone above Bohn said, "My legacy at CU won't be complete until CU finds its way back to the national championship game." And "Gordon Gee is one of my heroes." And "I am personally involved with the CU foundation's campaign that will make CU's athletic facilities the envy of the Mountain and Pacific timezones. This is what I am asking our alumni to do..."
 
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I think we start out the season 2-2, losses to Fresno and Wazzou. I hope we can do 3-1 with only loss to Fresno, since I'm going to Wazzou game. If we do go 2-2, I prefer to lose to CSU over Wazzou, selfishly speaking, of course. 4-0 will not happen.
 
The talent situation is what it is. Embree's addressing it, but it takes time--literally years--to build up enough depth just to compete week to week in a BCS conference. I think the coaching staff has taken the problem head on, with no excuses.

One could even say that the program was "burnt to the ground" when Embree was hired, but that would be impolite.
 
The coaches aren't sugar coating anything when it comes to the talent situation. They know this squad is still significantly lacking in BCS caliber talent, or hell even bodies at certain positions.cough...DL...cough...TE. Greg Brown was pretty blunt on the number of freshmen they expect to come in and play this year in today's article from ESPN. The good news is the talent that is coming in looks much more like a BCS caliber class, so hopefully we are transitioning from the "we just plain suck" stage to the we're just really, really young stage. If the coaches can somehow, someway coach these guys to a bowl game then it will signify the rebuild effort is succeeding and help build a lot of momentum. If we fall short of that (which is the likely scenario) then I think there will be a LOT of pressure on next year. Next year is the make or break year to determine whether the rebuild has worked.

The good news is I think the last few years have proven that core of the CU fan base is now much, much more resilient than we are generally given credit for. A lot of programs would have trouble holding serve at the season ticket and attendance numbers we've had through 5 year of mediocre to god-awful football. Plus the "Charlie Brown kicking the football luck" that we've had when it comes to injuries, transfers, and off-field incidents for the modicum of talent DII managed to bring in. Even Embree isn't immune to the CU curse, as demonstrated by the Richardson and Asiata situations.

There is a bright side to our ineptitude though. Our desperation to root for a winner...any winner...probably significantly helped to build the vibe around the b-ball program and its rapid growth as soon as they had a modicum of success. CU fans are hungry for a winning team and will turn out in droves if Embree and Co. deliver.
 
We also have to remember that we aren't playing in the SEC as a conference.

USC may have as much talent as anyone in the country, Oregon was mentioned last year at various points as a potential for the NC game, and Stanford has a bunch of 4* and 5* talent and played competitive games with the other two mentioned here, they will be talented even without Luck.

With that in mind we also have to remember that Utah is in worse shape than we are talentwise. Arizona, Washington State, and Oregon State don't make many people tremble with their talent. The teams in middle aren't murderers row either. UCLA got their coach fired, Cal should, and a Washinton team that finished 7-6 is losing some of their most talented players.

We are still a bad football team. Hawkins last two classes were basically WAC level and Embrees first class put together in a few weeks was a huge improvement but included more than a few reaches and question marks. Even with all that looking at the rest of the conference and our OOC this year a step up in record should be expected. Still not anything resembling a dominating team but not as bad as we have been accustomed to expect in the past few years.
 
I might be crazy but I see this team winning 6 maybe 7 games if they get it together. There is no reason to not start 3-0. CSU and sacramento st should be a nice warm up for the incoming frosh and a new QB. Fresno will be tougher but this is not the Fresno teams of the past decade that almost beat teams like USC. They have not had a very good team for a few years. I really think the buffs can win that one. Then they get zona, arizona st (no nick foles and new HC= probably a down year), UCLA (new coaches same story as az st), wazzu and utah. And all those games with the exception of zona and wazzu are in Boulder where the buffs play significantly better. So of those 5 games I dont think its too much of a stretch to say they could win 3 of them. 4 might be tough but maybe. Bottom line is I think we finally have a coach who will get guys ready to play and finally getting some more talent in here. I really think 6 wins can happen. And I know losing P rich hurts but lets not forget take out his one stellar game last year and he really was a non-factor the rest of the year. He dropped countless balls and never again changed a game.... not to say I wouldn't rather have him and I am not saying he couldn't be a game changer..... but CU managed to win a few last year without him. I don't think losing him is the difference for this team.
 
There's three games CU should win, three games they have no chance in hell of winning, and six games that could go either way. The problem we have had the last several years is that we've lost most of those games that could go either way. Last year, for instance, we had games against Hawaii, Cal, WSU, UCLA, ASU, Arizona and Utah that "could go either way". We lost five of those seven games.
 
Skidmark said:
The underlying foundation is unchanged.

Benson is still the president.

Phil DiStephano is still the Chancellor.

Mike Bohn still reports up through that chain of command

The regents aren't any more pro football than they were five or ten years ago.

There is no accountability for the Hawkins year 5.

We were thrown the P12 bone, but Larry Scott is the hero in that deal.

Embree remains one of the lowest paid football coaches in the BCS.

The results you get are based on the goals you set. No one in a leadership position is on record of saying anything more inspiring than a plain vanilla "we expect to compete for the conference championship and play in bowl games."

How fired up would we be if someone above Bohn said, "My legacy at CU won't be complete until CU finds its way back to the national championship game." And "Gordon Gee is one of my heroes." And "I am personally involved with the CU foundation's campaign that will make CU's athletic facilities the envy of the Mountain and Pacific timezones. This is what I am asking our alumni to do..."
Click to expand...
Outstanding post.
 
Skidmark said:
The underlying foundation is unchanged.

Benson is still the president.

Phil DiStephano is still the Chancellor.

Mike Bohn still reports up through that chain of command

The regents aren't any more pro football than they were five or ten years ago.

There is no accountability for the Hawkins year 5.

We were thrown the P12 bone, but Larry Scott is the hero in that deal.

Embree remains one of the lowest paid football coaches in the BCS.

The results you get are based on the goals you set. No one in a leadership position is on record of saying anything more inspiring than a plain vanilla "we expect to compete for the conference championship and play in bowl games."

How fired up would we be if someone above Bohn said, "My legacy at CU won't be complete until CU finds its way back to the national championship game." And "Gordon Gee is one of my heroes." And "I am personally involved with the CU foundation's campaign that will make CU's athletic facilities the envy of the Mountain and Pacific timezones. This is what I am asking our alumni to do..."
Click to expand...

This needs to be repeated.
 
In some ways, the success the basketball team has had is probably a bit of a wake-up call for the CU admin. Applications for admission are up. That's been directly attributed to the exposure CU got from the run in the Pac 12 and NCAA tournament. Lots of exposure on TV. The fans were crazy. There was a buzz about CU. It was the best $50 grand the athletic department ever spent. (or whatever the figure was). Football gets a lot more exposure than basketball does. I suspect there's somebody who has recognized this, and is now willing to put the past unpleasantness of the "scandal" behind us and support the football program. Otherwise, we wouldn't be getting an announcement of an announcement on facilities.
 
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