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Was Embree hired to be a transition coach?

DeNiro

DeNiro

My Dixie Wrecked
1. We are still paying for the East side of the stadium upgrades.
2. Hawk's buyout
3. Down revenue from the first year Pac transition.
4. Embree's budget friendly contract, especially after 3 years there is no buy-out.
5. The staff all having the CU ties, to try and buy the time from us.
6. The staff can recruit to at least not leave the cupboard bare for the next hire
7. The reports about Les Miles in the coaching search

This all screams to me that the admin thought we will just wait to have more Pac money and damn the present.
 
mdelpizzo_1 said:
1. We are still paying for the East side of the stadium upgrades.
2. Hawk's buyout
3. Down revenue from the first year Pac transition.
4. Embree's budget friendly contract, especially after 3 years there is no buy-out.
5. The staff all having the CU ties, to try and buy the time from us.
6. The staff can recruit to at least not leave the cupboard bare for the next hire
7. The reports about Les Miles in the coaching search

This all screams to me that the admin thought we will just wait to have more Pac money and damn the present.
Click to expand...

Les Miles is not. I repeat not coming here. As long as he can win 10+ games a season he will keep the LSU fan base at bay.
 
It appears that Embree was hired because the influential donors demanded a McCartney disciple to be the next head coach.

Then add to that the rumors that Bohn didn't even interview Embree.... it is turning into a bad situation all the way around.
 
Hasn't Bohn publicly said that he interviewed Embree and was very impressed? Anyway, the larger point is that people are overreacting to one game. I can't think of anyone who thinks the program Embree inherited was in good shape. So why call for Embree's firing after the first game of year two? If there isn't significant improvement this season then I'll agree. Right now, it's too early.
 
Ozbuff said:
Hasn't Bohn publicly said that he interviewed Embree and was very impressed? Anyway, the larger point is that people are overreacting to one game. I can't think of anyone who thinks the program Embree inherited was in good shape. So why call for Embree's firing after the first game of year two? If there isn't significant improvement this season then I'll agree. Right now, it's too early.
Click to expand...


What would qualify as significant improvement​ for you?
 
Lt.Col.FrankSlade said:
What would qualify as significant improvement​ for you?
Click to expand...

Fair question. Hard to say exactly. I'd say a convincing win against Sac State and a win on the road at Fresno State would help. We'd then need to either beat or be competitive with Washington State and all the Pac-12 South schools (except USC). Being competitive against Washington and/or Stanford would be a bonus. I don't expect the USC or Oregon games to be close (and don't think many people did, even before the CSU game) though I'd love to be pleasantly surprised.
 
Ozbuff said:
Hasn't Bohn publicly said that he interviewed Embree and was very impressed? Anyway, the larger point is that people are overreacting to one game. I can't think of anyone who thinks the program Embree inherited was in good shape. So why call for Embree's firing after the first game of year two? If there isn't significant improvement this season then I'll agree. Right now, it's too early.
Click to expand...

I think the reason people are getting all over Embo for this one game is because significant improvement would entail 6 wins and a bowl game. That's the standard Embree set for himself. To get to 6 wins, the Buffs really needed a win against CSU. I think we can all agree that they're going to have a hard time finding 5 wins out of Fresno plus the Pac 12 schedule.
 
Last edited:
That's how I always viewed it, and a reason why I'm not too upset. I hoped that they would be able to do better on the recruiting trail, though.

It is what it is.
 
And I don't think I would call him a "transition coach." I think it was a low risk hire, that would energize the fan base, and maybe you catch lightning in a bottle.
 
Hank said:
And I don't think I would call him a "transition coach." I think it was a low risk hire, that would energize the fan base, and maybe you catch lightning in a bottle.
Click to expand...


I'm not sure I would classify him as "low risk".

He was/is a huge risk. No head coaching experience. Not even any coordinator experience. Spent his entire coaching career predominantly at one position (TE coach). Hired an offensive coordinator with no coordinator experience. Hired a defensive line coach who has never coached anywhere before. Lots of risk across the board.

At the same time - he is not a financial risk. CU is not paying him very much at all. The cost of firing him is incredibly low. Probably some influx of new donations when he was hired. Re-united the fan case. In all those ways, I agree he was not a risk.
 
My hope, if this is the case, is that basically they're going to take one or two years of the Pac12 TV money and wipe the slate clean. Finish paying for the boxes, pay Hawks buyout, clear the debt as much as possible.

From there you start the new finance the new facility projects and you find yourself a top tier coach. Embos job was to come in and change the culture and restock the talent cupboard. And maybe, if we're lucky he turns out to be a pretty dang good coach..... although early returns on that are concerning.
 
mdelpizzo_1 said:
1. We are still paying for the East side of the stadium upgrades.
2. Hawk's buyout
3. Down revenue from the first year Pac transition.
4. Embree's budget friendly contract, especially after 3 years there is no buy-out.
5. The staff all having the CU ties, to try and buy the time from us.
6. The staff can recruit to at least not leave the cupboard bare for the next hire
7. The reports about Les Miles in the coaching search

This all screams to me that the admin thought we will just wait to have more Pac money and damn the present.
Click to expand...
That's a compelling argument. If it wasn't a conscious choice on the admin's part, making a transition hire like this would make a lot of sense. Save money, energize the fans, beef up recruiting and build a foundation for a first tier OC or DC to come in and really turn the corner.

Time will tell.
 
dio said:
My hope, if this is the case, is that basically they're going to take one or two years of the Pac12 TV money and wipe the slate clean. Finish paying for the boxes, pay Hawks buyout, clear the debt as much as possible.

From there you start the new finance the new facility projects and you find yourself a top tier coach. Embos job was to come in and change the culture and restock the talent cupboard. And maybe, if we're lucky he turns out to be a pretty dang good coach..... although early returns on that are concerning.
Click to expand...

This. I agree that early returns are concerning. I also agree that he could end up being a good coach. It's simply too early to write him off. Realistically, we probably weren't going to win more than 5-6 games this year anyway. Let's just see how the rest of the year plays out before calling for his head.
 
I would like to think they looked at this from a high level like that. I don't know that I have the faith in Bohn to have seen that though.

For the money they had available for a coach at the time, Embree was just as much of a risk as any of the other unproven candidates and it appeased the bleed black and gold fan base. If he fails in two or three years, there's little or no buy out and you go out and make a big splash with the Pac-12 money when it's available. And hey, if he works out, great!

If Embree bombs out this year with 1 or 2 wins, I think he needs to be gone and a new hire made now that we're getting good Pac-12 money, if he can get to 5 or 6 wins, let him have year three and see what happens.

I just don't have any faith the admin would pull the trigger though.
 
Lt.Col.FrankSlade said:
I'm not sure I would classify him as "low risk".

He was/is a huge risk. No head coaching experience. Not even any coordinator experience. Spent his entire coaching career predominantly at one position (TE coach). Hired an offensive coordinator with no coordinator experience. Hired a defensive line coach who has never coached anywhere before. Lots of risk across the board.

At the same time - he is not a financial risk. CU is not paying him very much at all. The cost of firing him is incredibly low. Probably some influx of new donations when he was hired. Re-united the fan case. In all those ways, I agree he was not a risk.
Click to expand...
Yeah - I meant financially. The last thing CU could afford was another expensive bust. And for future hires, I think it would be wise to have little guaranteed money unless the hire is a sure-fire slam dunk.
 
SanDiegoBuff said:
I would like to think they looked at this from a high level like that. I don't know that I have the faith in Bohn to have seen that though.

For the money they had available for a coach at the time, Embree was just as much of a risk as any of the other unproven candidates and it appeased the bleed black and gold fan base. If he fails in two or three years, there's little or no buy out and you go out and make a big splash with the Pac-12 money when it's available. And hey, if he works out, great!

If Embree bombs out this year with 1 or 2 wins, I think he needs to be gone and a new hire made now that we're getting good Pac-12 money, if he can get to 5 or 6 wins, let him have year three and see what happens.

I just don't have any faith the admin would pull the trigger though.
Click to expand...
I don't think it takes a genius to figure it out. That's how I looked at the hire at the time, and I'm not all that smart. Mac may have been a better option, but that could have spun out of control.
 
dio said:
My hope, if this is the case, is that basically they're going to take one or two years of the Pac12 TV money and wipe the slate clean. Finish paying for the boxes, pay Hawks buyout, clear the debt as much as possible.

From there you start the new finance the new facility projects and you find yourself a top tier coach. Embos job was to come in and change the culture and restock the talent cupboard. And maybe, if we're lucky he turns out to be a pretty dang good coach..... although early returns on that are concerning.
Click to expand...
this all sounds great, but I will be about 65 when all this comes to head
 
mdelpizzo_1 said:
1. We are still paying for the East side of the stadium upgrades.
2. Hawk's buyout
3. Down revenue from the first year Pac transition.
4. Embree's budget friendly contract, especially after 3 years there is no buy-out.
5. The staff all having the CU ties, to try and buy the time from us.
6. The staff can recruit to at least not leave the cupboard bare for the next hire
7. The reports about Les Miles in the coaching search

This all screams to me that the admin thought we will just wait to have more Pac money and damn the present.
Click to expand...

This assumes that the CU administration a) gives a **** about the football program and 2) is forward thinking enough to create such a plan. Neither of which I am willing to accept. This hire is not transitional. It is a cheap safe hire for the admin. Keep the program clean, strict admission requirements so that only "scholar" athletes can qualify, stay out of the negative press, winning absolutely secondary. To think that Bruce and Phil have a grand plan for the FB program is laughable.
 
krom said:
This assumes that the CU administration a) gives a **** about the football program and 2) is forward thinking enough to create such a plan. Neither of which I am willing to accept. This hire is not transitional. It is a cheap safe hire for the admin. Keep the program clean, strict admission requirements so that only "scholar" athletes can qualify, stay out of the negative press, winning absolutely secondary. To think that Bruce and Phil have a grand plan for the FB program is laughable.
Click to expand...

They've actually loosened up quite a bit for Embree on this
 
Lt.Col.FrankSlade said:
It appears that Embree was hired because the influential donors demanded a McCartney disciple to be the next head coach.

Then add to that the rumors that Bohn didn't even interview Embree.... it is turning into a bad situation all the way around.
Click to expand...

This has been my take on Embree's hire.
 
mdelpizzo_1 said:
1. We are still paying for the East side of the stadium upgrades.
2. Hawk's buyout
3. Down revenue from the first year Pac transition.
4. Embree's budget friendly contract, especially after 3 years there is no buy-out.
5. The staff all having the CU ties, to try and buy the time from us.
6. The staff can recruit to at least not leave the cupboard bare for the next hire
7. The reports about Les Miles in the coaching search

This all screams to me that the admin thought we will just wait to have more Pac money and damn the present.
Click to expand...

You are giving way too much credit to this admin for having any vision. We needed a likeable coach and a way to calm down the fans, within the budget. The leadership at CU doesn't think much further than tomorrows bowel movement and that includes Bohn. He got lucky hiring Boyle. I'll stick with Embo if he has the guts to fairly assess his coaching staff and do the right things at the end of the year. If it means EB is out, I'm good with that. I'd love to see a real Defensive Coordinator. Brown isn't the guy.
 
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