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WBB @ USC, 7 pm
- Thread starter MarkW
- Start date
Yeah. I tried streaming and got nada.
BeBe
Club Member
I was just looking at the schedule. With a 10-2 record now and a total of 29 games plus at least 1 in the conference tourney, the Buffs will have to win at least 5 conference games to be WNIT eligible at the end of the season. I don't see it happening with the way they played tonight. Coaches will have earned their pay if they could pull that rabbit out of their hat.
MarkW
Well-Known Member
The Wyoming loss really exposed the Buffs weaknesses. USC I am sure exposed them even more.
let's be honest, the team may be a bit more experienced than last season's, but they don't have a ton more talent. And without playing tremendous defense and rebounding well, they aren't going to hang with many Pac 12 teams.
I agree with Bebe that if the coaches can get the team to five conference wins they really will have earned their pay.
Boy do I hope the newcomers next season really raise the talent level, especially on the interior.
let's be honest, the team may be a bit more experienced than last season's, but they don't have a ton more talent. And without playing tremendous defense and rebounding well, they aren't going to hang with many Pac 12 teams.
I agree with Bebe that if the coaches can get the team to five conference wins they really will have earned their pay.
Boy do I hope the newcomers next season really raise the talent level, especially on the interior.
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Buffballer
Well-Known Member
Leonard is exceptional but she is being double teamed all over the floor and is taking a beating every time she attacks the basket. We'll need others to step up and take some of the load. Long way to go; veterans need to step up and freshman will have to grow up fast. 15 wins this season would be huge.
BeBe
Club Member
Re: the bolded part of Mark's post .... IMO this years team actually has LESS talent than they did last season. The front court loss of Jamee Swan is not made up for (at least not yet) with the addition of Monica Burich and Eleanor Jones. Hopefully those two players continue to improve. And I'd love to see more improvement in Zoe Correal but I'm not too hopeful there. She's improved her rebounding considerably but I will be very surprised if we see much improvement in other parts of her game this season.
Agree with everything stated here. Correal is not as good as Jamee Swan, nor are Burich and Jones.
Don't think quickness and speed can be coached. Forwards are not fast and USC exploited that.
Leonard can't do this by herself and that is what she tried to do against Wyoming and again last night.
Huggins was on at half time and was asked about returning. She talked about some time in January. IMO, she has missed too much of this season to be a lot of help in the Pac.
Thought they were overrated and they are. They are not deserving of being ranked. Unless there is a coaching miracle, there is no WNIT or NCAA tournament in the future this season.
Don't think quickness and speed can be coached. Forwards are not fast and USC exploited that.
Leonard can't do this by herself and that is what she tried to do against Wyoming and again last night.
Huggins was on at half time and was asked about returning. She talked about some time in January. IMO, she has missed too much of this season to be a lot of help in the Pac.
Thought they were overrated and they are. They are not deserving of being ranked. Unless there is a coaching miracle, there is no WNIT or NCAA tournament in the future this season.
I think Kennedy Leonard would have been a talent to behold playing for a mid-major power like Middle Tennessee State, Green Bay, South Dakota or South Dakota State. I think in that context she'd be worth the price of admission alone and able to carry great mid-major teams to W-L records similar to what CSU managed last year, finishing 31-2 before taking that first round exit with a loss to South Florida in the NCAAW. I think that is an issue for NCAAW, in that there are many very capable talented, exciting, and exceptional players throughout the country, but let's be honest, not all are exceptional at every level.
I think NCAAW is a beautiful game, and so much more pure than watching Men's NCAA ball or even the NBA. I compare NCAAW to FIBA in that it is so much easier to win in either with scheme, getting hot, or just with great coaching. However, you can only get so far with limited athletes. There is an astronomical division between playing high school girls basketball and playing Women's Division I ball, then actually competitive NCAAW ball. Every season, there are about 112,500 high school seniors playing girls basketball, but only about 5,200 of those will be talented enough to play college basketball, on any level. There are 349 teams competing this season in NCAAW Div-I, and Div-II has a little less than 300 teams, and Div-III about another 450. That adds up to just over 1,000 schools a student-athlete has an opportunity to play women's Basketball at.
In the NCAAW world of Div-I each team has 15 scholarships they can offer. Regardless of whether the scholarship is a partial or full scholarship, it counts for NCAAW purposes as being one of the fifteen the school can offer. Money and politics are a big part of NCAAW, especially considering it is a non-revenue sport. I think most fans would be surprised to learn of the financial arrangements that exist between student athletes and the Athletic Department of the schools they play for. It isn't completely unheard of for a student athlete to receive a full scholarship, but for a player's parents to actually have a development agreement to donate or make contributions to the AD on the order of major gifts. What does that mean? A player might receive a scholarship to CU, but the student athlete's parents are friends of the University and ultimately end up donating more money, sometimes significantly, than the value of the scholarship. So all is not equal in the world of the fifteen scholarships each program has to offer, nor in the way they allocate those scholarships. Different schools in NCAAW have different budgets, exposure, and levels of competition. There are probably three legitimate tiers of NCAAW, of the 349 schools currently playing Div-I. I like to think of those as the top-100, the 2nd-100, and the 3rd tier (201-349). Even amongst the top-tier or top-100 there is considerable variance. Just for the sake of context, one of the invitees from the Omni Classic: SMU, is rated right at #100 overall as-of yesterday by the Sagarin ratings. There is just an incredible difference between being a high-school basketball player (one of 112k) and being a college player (one of about 11K), to being a NCAAW Div-I player (one of about 5,000), and that variance just gets more selective when we carve out schools at competitive conferences. It shouldn't surprise anyone that NCAAW is a power-6 conference sport. Per Sagarin the current conf. rankings are: Pac-12, Big-12, ACC, SEC, Big-10, and Big East.
Just within the 75 teams making up the 6 best conferences in NCAAW Division I, there is HUGE variance, and we've already carved out all the other 274 schools that aren't in one of the Power-6 conferences. Some of those schools are incredible programs like Green Bay, or other very good programs. Right now per Sagarin's ratings Green Bay is the 14th best team in the country, Toledo is 48th, Drake is 54th and Elon is 58th. CU was ranked 51st before the USC loss to give that some context. Just looking at the schools within the six best conferences, and ignoring top-programs from other mid-majors, we just see a huge variance between conference to conference. Per Sagarin the #1 conference in the land is the Pac-12, and its not even close. Just to have a 50/50 chance to win half the Pac-12 games a team needs to be approximately as good of a team as South Florida, Gonzaga, or Oklahoma State. To put it in another context, to have a chance to JUST win one half of the Pac-12 conference games, but still losing the other half, a team would roughly need to be about the 27th best team in the country. If we look at the #6 conference, the Big East, a team needs to be about a little less good than mid-major monster power South Dakota, but a little better than mid-major monster power Middle Tennessee State. Right now that's almost exactly where Purdue sits, and just a ranking spot above SMU, again the Omni Classic invitee that CU saw earlier in the season. That team that is just good enough to win half but lose half of its Big East games would be about the 99th best team in all of NCAAW.
I think some of the Buffs players on this roster are very exciting to watch. Correal has been playing at a double-double pace in almost ever game she's played in this season. Quinessa Caylao-Do looks very athletic, skilled and talented. Eleanor Jones looks like she has some of best short and mid-range shooting touch of any recent Buff post player in memory. Arianna Freeman is fearless and finishes near the rim like she's 4-6" taller. Kennedy Leonard is aggressive and exciting to watch. With all the players on this Buffs roster we take the good with the bad.
I just think its important to recognize that CU is a largely non-competitive Pac-12 program, and has been since entering the Pac-12, where their record is only 33-58 since joining the conference (through the USC game). The Buffs aren't even winning half their games, rather closer to winning just a little better than one third of their games. While we've seen many exciting things from players on this roster, this just isn't a competitive roster for Pac-12 conference play.
The Buffs played USC on Friday night. The Buffs were an AP-25 ranked team, and it shouldn't be lost on anyone that USC was unranked. Of the seven ranked teams in the Pac-12, USC was not one of them. I don't think anyone who follows the Buffs was confident going into this game. At this point it was clear the Buffs had regressed a bit, gone back into some bad habits learned last year. The Buffs just took two significant steps back in the MVSU and the Wyoming game. This Buffs team was good enough to blow both of those teams out, but could have easily lost both games. As it was CU was lucky to split the two contests as poorly as they've played. Against MVSU the sheer difference in talent and athleticism that the CU Buffs had was probably the difference in the game, as poorly as they played. However, MVSU may have lost that game, but MVSU realistically outplayed CU. Wyoming looked to me like the better team, and I didn't realize this Buffs team could play that poorly this season. We take the good with the bad. The UK win was unexpected but so much fun to watch, and the Wyoming loss was just as unexpected, and it was tough to watch the team and Leonard struggle so badly for the first three quarters. However, that fourth quarter was just something to witness. It wasn't necessarily good basketball, and it ultimately didn't really help the team, but watching young Leonard take over and prove she was unstoppable versus that level of competition was worth the agony of the first three quarters, if we still had to lose.
My point is that the Buffs do have some exceptional players. Correal managed 11 rebounds against USC in just about 16 minutes. If Correal had instead gone on to play for a mid-major power somewhere she'd probably average 20 points and 10 rebounds every night against lesser competition. She's a great basketball player, but as a Pac-12 player she's marginal as a scorer, has trouble defending without fouling, and is a plus rebounder. She is a great basketball player, just not a great Pac-12 player (at least not right now). She has so much upside that Linda wasn't able to develop, and already we're seeing in the short time that JR Payne has been working with Correal that she's been transformed into a player that was flirting with a double-double in almost every non-conference game. So while Correal is an exceptional basketball player in her own right, the context is now Pac-12 play. For the Pac-12 this is not a competitive roster. Correal is not an exceptional basketball player, in our competitive context. We'll root for her, and cheer on our Buffs, and continue to celebrate her development and growth (only still a Junior) but let's be realistic about the fact that we don't have depth next to her amongst the bigs. BuffBaller I think you have a special affinity for Kennedy Leonard, and I too think she is a talented and exceptional basketball player. Young Kennedy could have gone almost anywhere to play college basketball, and with her sheer aggressiveness gone on to be a veritable star. She is just so fearless and aggressive that it almost makes up for the deficiencies in her game defensively or in running the point. However, in choosing to come to Colorado and attempt to compete in the Pac-12 it changed the perspective. That's before even considering that this season the Pac-12 is a whole completely different level of competitive. An NCAAW player can be exceptional in her own right and a great basketball player, but against this level of competition she can look like at times she's not even good. That's how good the Pac-12 is right now. That's why a ranked CU Buffs team didn't go into unranked USC with confidence and why many fans weren't predicting the Buffs would run the floor with the Trojans, let alone win. On paper this game always felt like a loss and many of us were suspecting the Buffs were significantly overrated.
Our non-conference schedule was almost entirely non-competitive, and that's not how a team prepares to play in the most competitive conference in the land. We've seen the team revert to the bad form of last season. I think the Buffs could have won the USC game had we seen the Kennedy Leonard that we saw in the UK game. I still say I saw Leonard play a perfect game that night versus Kentucky. However, Kentucky is not a Pac-12 team, ranked as they were and have been, or not. An unranked USC is just so significantly more athletic, talented, and ultimately bigger, faster, stronger and more skilled than this CU roster that I don't think the outcome was in doubt in anyone's minds.
The Buffs have some very good guards. Kennedy Leonard had one assist on the night and four turnovers versus USC. That's not the line you want from your dominant ball handler and the point guard that gets the team into good scoring looks. Alexis Robinson had one assist on five turnovers. Quinessa Caylao-Do had one assist on four turnovers. The strength of this Buffs team is that backcourt right there, and quite frankly in this game they weren't good enough or even marginally competitive. Leonard took sixteen shots, and seemed to be playing like she did against Wyoming, that is trying to draw the foul rather than scoring. Leonard got to the line for ten free throws. Take away those points after the whistle and that's just ten points on sixteen shots, with one assist and four turnovers. What I'd like to see again is the Kennedy Leonard that is looking to penetrate to create opportunities for her teammates. She was spectacular in the UK game, running the pick and roll with Correal and giving that good defense just fits.
A JR Payne team is a team that is predicated on tough and smart basketball. Tough and smart basketball is not a team turning the ball over 24 times, or driving and penetrating while looking for one's own shot and not looking to dish to a slashing teammate. Mark my words, there is no player on this CU roster that is talented enough to play Pac-12 competition on her own. This Buffs team will find success or frustration to the degree they learn to play together as a team and for one another. Kennedy Leonard, Alexis Robinson and Quinessa Caylao-Do may be three of the most talented players on this roster but this team can never have success if they are trying to play 1v5 on offense. A player can be exceptional in her own right, and marginal in performance when she tries that. It has to change or the results won't.
However, this is the first Pac-12 game that JR Payne has coached, and this team is too talented to abide by a result like last nights! Two JR Payne quotes from the game:
JR Payne said:
I think JR Payne learned her lesson regarding how not to schedule for non-conference going forward. I'm not sure how far out team's schedule games, but we can probably rest assured that JR Payne will take a completely different approach to non-conference scheduling than Linda did. You don't prepare to play the best athletes in the country by playing some of the worst.
JR Payne said:
Realistically, USC isn't even one of the good Pac-12 teams. Sagarin had them ranked 9th in the Pac-12, and Colorado was ranked 11th before this game. I think we've seen a significant turnaround this season in getting these Buffs playing competitively in the non-conference portion of the schedule, but let's be honest. These are mostly the same players that struggled so much last season, and significant talent is missing in Swan and Huggins. Arguably this roster is worse than last season's, though I think they are much much better coached this season. We always knew coming in this season that the Pac-12 portion of this year's schedule was going to be brutal.
We'll cheer on the Buffs, support the team, and hope for the best. Maybe we find five conference wins to get to the WNIT. However, a huge part of this team developing into being the team JR Payne's teams are known for is learning to play team basketball, smart and tough basketball. Right now the Buffs are playing selfish basketball, and it isn't smart, it isn't tough, and we've seen for the past 1 1/2 seasons that it isn't a winning formula. If the Buffs can't play with the 9th best team in the Pac-12 it could be a long conference portion to finishing out this season.
I think anyone being objective about how these Buffs are playing would recognize that right now the Buffs have some very good basketball players that just can't compete when playing in a great basketball competitive context. That's what can be humbling about sports, no matter how good you are, your opponents can be better, and much better at that. That right there might be the story of the Pac-12 portion of this season's schedule.
I'll lead the cheers of GO BUFFS! and we can all root for these players that wear the Buffs colors, but we can't just root for players the way their parents would. There are exceptional players in the Pac-12, and quite honestly there aren't any players on the CU roster that have been worthy of being a Pac-12 Player of the Week for the past two seasons, and for good reason. This is the Conference of Champions, and this conference is as good as it gets. The Buffs aren't there yet, but I believe with JR Payne they will get there. I think its a disservice to the Pac-12 opponents to talk up our own players when they continue to the struggle and our team is largely noncompetitive for going on a season and a half. As for the Buffs, we have some players that are good basketball players in their own right, but not so much (yet) in the Pac-12 competitive conference context. At the end of the day, if you can't win games, are you really any good let alone exceptional? Almost on every given night the remainder of the season, the Buffs will see some exceptional players, even for the Pac-12 context, the problem is they won't be wearing a CU uniform. As talented as some of these CU players are they are just 2-17 in Pac-12 games the past two seasons for a reason.
That reason is not that CU has any players that are just so exceptional that they are just that much better than their opponents.
Right now, let's limit the use of the term exceptional to the likes of Kelsey Plum et. al. Plum took Washington to the Final Four last season, and this season is #1 in the conference in Scoring AND in Assist/TO ratio. That's pretty darn exceptional.
Now I've seen players for CU play at that level, Kennedy Leonard did it in the UK game for sure, but there is a difference between having one great game and being a truly great player. In all fairness to our Buffs there is not a harder conference to be a good player in all of NCAAW than the Pac-12. This is a good Buffs team, probably good for between the 55th-75th best team in the country. It just so happens that this makes them a pretty lousy Pac-12 team.
Still we have 10 wins, and counting. Pac-12 wins are like gold. Valuable, scarce, and fierce effort and competition to find. This Buffs team would be competitive in just about any other conference in the country, just not in the Pac-12. That's not so bad. Things are trending in the right direction, with the right coach, and we'll be getting the right players in recruiting soon and the Buffs will be a Pac-12 force to be reckoned with. Just not last Friday and probably not this season.
Stay tuned. Right now JR Payne is trying to figure out how to play Pac-12 Basketball with a WCC Gonzaga like roster. She'll figure it out. However, as fans we have to move past the sour grapes stage of fandom. As the losses for CU pile up in Pac-12 competition the reason the Buffs lose is not because of how singularly great any particular player is, and quite frankly, there aren't really any great players on this Buffs roster in a Pac-12 context. Great players make their teammates better and are transformative in terms of wins. There is not a single player on this CU roster that is great in that sense, in a Pac-12 context, and that's okay.
Hats off to USC.
Go Buffs!
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Buffballer
Well-Known Member
BoCoBBall or RWAG, Players follow coaches directions and game plans:
Read and pay particular attention to what is stated about "more people" and "shooters". A quote that was (transparently) omitted from your diatribe
JR Payne, head coach
On the play of Kennedy Leonard
"Kennedy scored and she was being aggressive to the basket. We were calling stuff for her to be aggressive, but we need more people to be aggressive. We need shooters to be ready to shoot and be able to get open and handle all of those things that are important to running and executing an offense."
With regards to Leonard you spent the entirety of last season expressing your perspective that KL did not have the ability to play and impact at this level. The PAC-12 Coaches and media unanimously disagreed.
Under whatever member name you choose your personal agenda is the same and this season i for one will no longer read let alone engage.
#GOBUFFS #SHOULDERTOSHOULDER
Read and pay particular attention to what is stated about "more people" and "shooters". A quote that was (transparently) omitted from your diatribe
JR Payne, head coach
On the play of Kennedy Leonard
"Kennedy scored and she was being aggressive to the basket. We were calling stuff for her to be aggressive, but we need more people to be aggressive. We need shooters to be ready to shoot and be able to get open and handle all of those things that are important to running and executing an offense."
With regards to Leonard you spent the entirety of last season expressing your perspective that KL did not have the ability to play and impact at this level. The PAC-12 Coaches and media unanimously disagreed.
Under whatever member name you choose your personal agenda is the same and this season i for one will no longer read let alone engage.
#GOBUFFS #SHOULDERTOSHOULDER
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I don't know what you're talking about or if you even meant to direct that at me. I love this Buffs team, and have no personal agenda.
I have a Buffs agenda. I'm a complete homer, but I think even I like to acknowledge that the opposing team has players as well. Obviously, you're right in that this Buffs team needs more players to be…well just better. However, you can't recruit better players mid-season and rebuilding a roster, or building a Pac-12 competitive roster is just a multi-season project. This just isn't a good Pac-12 team and never has been since joining the conference. JR Payne has to compete with the players she has, whether they are good enough to play competitively versus the Pac-12 rivals or not.
Kennedy Leonard is a talent for sure. There have been times, like in the Wyoming game, where this single aggressive player was the only offensive the Buffs had at all. When we saw Leonard put on a scoring clinic in the 4th Qtr of that game it was one of the most incredible displays most Buffs fans had seen. Against UK, as I've repeatedly stated it was the closest thing to a perfect game that I'd ever seen (and I include Shonni Shimmel's game vs. Baylor in that category) from a PG. Ever since the UK game I've been wondering where that pick and roll game went between Correal and Leonard, and we really haven't seen it since. She's very talented and in the non-conference portion of the schedule has been a joy to watch.
In the Pac-12 portion of the schedule this is not going to be a great Buffs team, and quite realistically and honestly the best players on the floor every night are not going to be Buffs. This is the best conference around, and being really really good isn't good enough. This is the conference of the best players on the best teams.
Quite simply, this just is NOT a good Buffs team, and I think I've been consistent in stating that Kennedy Leonard is worth the price of admission to watch, alone early through the non-conference portion of the schedule. However, as much fun as Tim Tebow would have been for Florida fans to watch in college he wasn't ever going to be a great NFL QB. I think Kennedy Leonard is one of the best players on this CU team. However, this just isn't a competitive CU team, at least in the Pac-12 context. USC is not a great Pac-12 team. They are only ranked 9th in the Conference and just ran the floor with our Buffs. This is a great conference with great teams, and great players on great teams. CU is a non-competitive Pac-12 team and I just think we need to put all the silly talk to bed about how great our players are, until they can manage to win some games.
My only point is that the Pac-12 has truly great great players. That was my point. It just feels like sour grapes to talk up our own players as being singularly exceptional, when they seemingly can't win conference games. Again, Kennedy Leonard and Alexis Robinson combined (along with Freshman Quinessa Caylao-Do) represent three of the most talented players on this team. Yet all three had similar numbers in terms of Assists and Turnovers, and were just outclassed by USC. It isn't like they weren't trying. As talented as our Sophomore backcourt is, in going into their second conference season they still only have just two conference wins…total. Anyone who believes that the Buffs are going to win half their conference games this season is probably kidding themselves. I think winning just six conference games and losing twelves would be a considerable achievement.
So please, give it a rest regarding how any Buffs on this roster are like the greatest players ever.
Per Sagarin (before the USC loss) this Buffs team is only the 51st best team in the country in all of Div-I NCAAW. I'm a Buffs fan, and I'll cheer on the Buffs, and I'm a homer, but even I'll acknowledge when the other team(s) or players are just better. Unfortunately for the Buffs that's been the case in Pac-12 play since the Buffs entered the conference, has been the case since recruiting recovered somewhat with this Sophomore class, and will prove to be the case again this season. In the Pac-12 the Buffs aren't the better team (per Sagarin are just the 11th best in the Pac-12, and that's before the USC loss), and in the Pac-12 the Buffs don't have any player on the roster that can be confused with being the best player in the conference. I think to believe anything else would just be pretty silly.
We can all have favorite players. However, don't expect the internet to believe everything you want to believe about those players that are your favorites. This game is decided on the floor, not in internet forums. All three CU guards were outclassed against USC. Any objective conversation about how talented a player is has to start with talking about the USC guards. Putting up numbers in losses isn't the sign of great players. Great players carry their teammates and create great teams. I think my point about Kelsey Plum, the Final Four appearance, and begin the top scorer in the conference and the best creator of offense spoke to that.
This would be a pretty silly forum community if all we did was just tell each other how great the Buffs were all the time. Especially when they really aren't.
Every player on this Buffs roster is a great basketball player in her own right. That was the entire point of my posts. However, being a great basketball player in the greatest basketball conference in the land? That's a whole different conversation.
We've played one conference game so far this season. The Buffs were pretty terrible. The Guard play was not good, the Forwards didn't play well. Correal was special on the boards, but the team and the players were not special against USC.
This is not the best team ever. This year's Buffs are not UCONN, Maryland, Baylor, Green Bay, or Notre Dame. We've been over ranked with a horrendous non-conference schedule. The MVSU and Wyoming games were wake up calls. Its going to be a long Pac-12 run to finish out the season. That's going to get longer if anyone cheerleads for players being the bestest ever after every disappointing loss, and wants to point the finger at every other player on the roster save one.
Sure JR Payne acknowledged how aggressive young Leonard was playing. However, let's take a deep breath. We're talking about a player whose team just lost 54-79. Unless the point guard in a basketball game doesn't really have a significant role in how a team performs? I see one single assist and four turnovers. I see that Alexis and Quinessa had almost identical struggles. Its not a good team, and there really isn't any separation between the three from what we can see from that game. Yes, Leonard was aggressive, but let's be honest this team nor this player were good enough to even make this game competitive.
That's okay. What's absurd is if we want to start telling each other about how good this team is. Its not. Or how good any individual Buffs is. They just aren't.
Plum is an example of an exceptional player: Final Four appearance, leads Pac-12 in Scoring AND in Assists-to-turnover ratio. Elevates the Washington team to being a great team, and is truly a great player in the Pac-12. Already won Pac-12 Player of the Week twice this season.
USC is not a great Pac-12 team, and we just learned we can't even run with USC. I don't think this is the time to stand on our soapboxes and squawk about how our players are the bestest.
This team is what it is. That is a 2-17 record in Pac-12 play the past two seasons. There will be more losses this season in Pac-12 play than wins. It is what it is. To tell ourselves how great they are is kind of…well just silly. Especially coming from fans on a team that typically loses 2/3 of its conference games.
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CUoldtimer
Well-Known Member
It's nuts to try and say KL was similar to Robinson and Caylao-Do. Robinson is playing like a true freshman not like a team leader. She needs to be way more agressive scoring. Caylao-Do isn't really a factor on this team as a FR IMO. Freeman is a factor though. Our scoring has to come from KL, AR, Freeman, Smith and maybe burich. I agree 6 League wins would be good.
Buffballer
Well-Known Member
Could not agree more, unfortunately you will more then likely receive a 500 word manifesto telling you that you are wrong.
At the beginning of the season looking at the roster and the schedule most would have said 12-14 wins would be a fair if not aggressive expectation. The roster has 3-4 legit Pac-12 players with one of those at the elite level (based on PAC-12 media and coaches rankings). That coupled with playing in the toughest conference in the country 12-14 wins seemed like an accurate expectation. No doubt the early success grew expectations. I still think the 14 win number is possible and I'd love to see them hit 15 as a reward to players like Smith and Huggins. Coaches will need to come up with some great schemes and game plans to get 4-5 conference wins, i for one hope they can.
Medford M.
Well-Known Member
These posts are too long.
CUoldtimer
Well-Known Member
Comparing KL to the other guards may be the craziest thing I've read on here. The guy clearly has something against her. He just wants to be right about her. If he's a CU fan then he might be the most negative fan I can remember. Also, I must have missed these posts declaring KL the best guard in the PAC 12 or that CU was going to be great this year. All I've seen on here are tempered expectations from fans that were happy that it looked like at least we got the right coaches in place. He's going to hate it if they get a top10 class. I'm sure we will then get a manifesto on how overrated the class is.
CUoldtimer
Well-Known Member
Crickets.