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We take you now to Chapel Hill, NC
- Thread starter L Buff
- Start date
And in other news Water is Wet.
Basketball in ACC country is like football in SEC country, if you aren't cheating you don't take it seriously enough. How are these players going to have time to practice, study film, lift, do training room, etc. if they are wasting time going to class.
The mental gymnastics that justify if say that we know the players aren't going to graduate anyways, most won't spend more than two years on campus before heading to the NBA so it isn't like academic integrity matters. The fact that they get to spend time on our fine campus is life changing enough and compensates them for selling thousands of tickets and making us loads of TV money.
McCants knows that he can safely speak at this point. The NCAA will say that the statute of limitations on his statements has passed and that they can find no credible evidence against the current program.
Of course if this were the University of Buffalo or Nevada-Reno they would get one step from the death sentence but good ol' Roy would never intentionally compromise the integrity of the NCAA. They might not let him recruit off campus for the two weeks that he normally takes his vacation to Hawaii just to teach him a lesson.
I don't see the problem, frankly. So they set up easy classes for athletes to take in order to remain eligible. So what? Having tutors do the work for you is an issue that needs to be addressed, but the mere existence of easy classes isn't, by itself, a problem.
****, I think I'm pretty damn sanguine, but even I think a university should have standards. Offering classes where a student needn't attend and can earn an A with one paper isn't higher education.
jgisland
Club Member
So is he lying now or in 2004?
McCants 2004
In an interview that aired on WRAL-TV on Friday night, McCants compared playing college basketball to being in jail. He also said he considered his time in the program to be his job.
"It's to get up and go to school, get here and lift weights and play basketball," McCants said in the interview. "That's my 9-to-5. As my uncle said, I'm in jail right now. You're not allowed to do certain things, you're not allowed to say certain things.
He said Tuesday he meant to give an example of how regimented his life is with the Tar Heels. As he told Williams when explaining the comments, he couldn't go anywhere during fall break like many of his classmates because he had to get ready for the start of practice.
McCants 2004
In an interview that aired on WRAL-TV on Friday night, McCants compared playing college basketball to being in jail. He also said he considered his time in the program to be his job.
"It's to get up and go to school, get here and lift weights and play basketball," McCants said in the interview. "That's my 9-to-5. As my uncle said, I'm in jail right now. You're not allowed to do certain things, you're not allowed to say certain things.
He said Tuesday he meant to give an example of how regimented his life is with the Tar Heels. As he told Williams when explaining the comments, he couldn't go anywhere during fall break like many of his classmates because he had to get ready for the start of practice.
CUFan
Welcome back
It's the minor leagues for basketball and football. The concept of a student athlete in those two sports is kind of comical. I wish they truly were student athletes but the system just isn't set up that way any more. Possibly for different reasons, but my reaction is much like Sackman's. Meh.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I offer Duke as a counter example. Not a Blue Devil fan, but from all appearances Coach K is doing it right. Virginia Tech is not.
Tarheels went too far -- those classes had near 100% enrollment of basketball and football players, most didn't have a syllabus, some didn't meet at all. Enrollment for these special classes was only open for 1 - 2 days and only athletes knew about them. UNC made every attempt to provide soft classes that would only be taken by athletes. That being said, most football players at Virginia Tech major in Residential Property Management.
They were for all practical purposes ghost classes. Athletes only. No professor, no syllabus, no lectures, no homework, no exam, "self study", one term paper written by someone else. I'd be surprised if half the athletes enrolled even knew they were in it.
As for the education of athletes in general, read what a UNC whistle-blower had to say about it. http://espn.go.com/college-sports/s...els-reading-specialist-mary-willingham-resign
Awful for any University to sink to those levels, particularly one as highly regarded as UNC.
As for the education of athletes in general, read what a UNC whistle-blower had to say about it. http://espn.go.com/college-sports/s...els-reading-specialist-mary-willingham-resign
Awful for any University to sink to those levels, particularly one as highly regarded as UNC.
f**king liberal arts school
It is one thing to provide classes that work with the needs of student athletes. Basketball players especially are on the road a good portion of the season so attending a traditional Socratic class is difficult if not impossible.
I also understand the "minor league" argument but I don't buy it. For one thing the kids are still wearing the name of the university on the uniforms, it is an educational institution, they should in some way represent that.
Secondly even though almost all have dreams only a small percentage are going to make their life's income playing their sport. Even the kids who get a couple years on the bench in the major pro leagues are still going to have to earn a living. The university and the system owes them at least a reasonable attempt to enhance that earning ability and to provide a university experience.
Third, in this case it appears that even the "work" that was expected to pass the classes was not being done by the athletes. Handing in a paper that was completed by a tutor for credit is a corruption of the system that goes beyond "helping" an athlete.
If a player doesn't want anything to do with academics the D league should be presented as an alternative, or playing in Europe. We all know that some kids will go to school strictly for athletic participation and advancement but that doesn't excuse the system from an obligation to maintain some integrity and require them to do a reasonable amount to be called student-athletes.
Agree with these. I'd prefer that players not interested in attending classes go to some kind of development league.
CUFan
Welcome back
I completely agree. There should be viable professional options for the kids that don't want to be students. Right now there is not. Their only option is to pretend to be a student athlete (and the universities then have to pretend as well).
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With a professor in the courts for fraud and this thing reaching these levels in the media something may actually come from this investigation. If the academic advisor who did the study isn't concerned about finding a similar position elsewhere her further disclosures following her resignation could also be very damaging and it sound like she isn't interested in being shut up.
BehindEnemyLines
beware the habu
The item you quoted brings up one question -- does UNC have a special admissions program, ala Cal Berkeley? 60% of the individuals were at or below an 8th grade reading level. It seems that entrance requirements were waived, non-existant, or (dread the thot) completed by someone else.
This issue may be much deeper than just "ghost" classes.
Maybe someone can find the article, but I remember us having something about how some schools were abusing the "learning disability" loophole in NCAA standards & campus policy on test-taking. It was something ridiculous, like about half of the players at Florida State were declared by the university to have a learning disability.
I don't think the NCAA will be able to make much headway on stopping the academic abuses. With this stuff, the university is implicit.
I just look at CU and think about there being 2 ways to go on this issue and still be able to compete. The first is to play the game that some of these other schools play (even places like North Carolina and Michigan have been documented in articles, so you know it's bad and pervasive). The second is to be above board, not play this game, but invest in one hell of an impressive academic support lab & team. With the 2nd option, you end up recruiting players (and their parents) who respond to the message of: "At CU, you will go to class. You will study. You will learn. There are not a lot of options for easy majors of study as an 'athlete path'. CU will provide you with all the support you could want. Look at our graduation rates and APR scores -- they are higher than some other schools that don't have these standards. And when you are done, you will have a legitimate college education and experience that prepares you for success in life outside of whether or not you make your fortune as a professional athlete."
There are enough people who will respond to that 2nd message. And the ones who do will be of high character with good mentors in their lives. The key with that approach is that you have to be winning and have the other things in place to attract the best athletes among those kids, because you're now competing with Stanford, Notre Dame, Duke and Northwestern for these types of kids.
I don't think the NCAA will be able to make much headway on stopping the academic abuses. With this stuff, the university is implicit.
I just look at CU and think about there being 2 ways to go on this issue and still be able to compete. The first is to play the game that some of these other schools play (even places like North Carolina and Michigan have been documented in articles, so you know it's bad and pervasive). The second is to be above board, not play this game, but invest in one hell of an impressive academic support lab & team. With the 2nd option, you end up recruiting players (and their parents) who respond to the message of: "At CU, you will go to class. You will study. You will learn. There are not a lot of options for easy majors of study as an 'athlete path'. CU will provide you with all the support you could want. Look at our graduation rates and APR scores -- they are higher than some other schools that don't have these standards. And when you are done, you will have a legitimate college education and experience that prepares you for success in life outside of whether or not you make your fortune as a professional athlete."
There are enough people who will respond to that 2nd message. And the ones who do will be of high character with good mentors in their lives. The key with that approach is that you have to be winning and have the other things in place to attract the best athletes among those kids, because you're now competing with Stanford, Notre Dame, Duke and Northwestern for these types of kids.
I guess I feel like there are more important things to get upset over. UNC is free to conduct it's business however it sees fit. If that means dumbing down a curriculum in order to keep certain athletes eligible, that's their business. I'll freely grant that it's a sleazy practice, but it's one that I don't think is terribly uncommon.
L Buff
Commissar of the Albuffs Collective Left
Nik,
If you can get past the SAT/ACT barrier getting an athlete admitted can sometimes be very easy. Way back 20+ years ago I was on a BB staff at a HS in the north suburbs of Denver. We had a couple kids transfer in from DPS schools who had transcripts that looked like they were average to above average students. Turned out they could barely read and didn't even know how to do school work.
I had the opportunity to talk with the former coach of one of them and asked him what in the **** was going on with his transcript. His response was that his administration had told/supported him in the idea that if the kid was doing well in sports and not getting in trouble they would do what was necessary to keep him in good academic standing to keep him in school, away from the gangs, and "give him a chance to play ball someplace."
One of the kids was so far behind that we put him in special ed even though he didn't have a specific handicapping condition. The other was a bright kid who had just been coasting and we managed to get him functioning well enough to graduate and get into a JC.
This incident also gave me a better insight into why CU seemed leery at the time of DPS kids to the displeasure of the Denver Community. There were some kids who came out of DPS who had good families and were qualified as students to function at CU (Billups, Graham, I.E.) but there were some others who CU passed on that I wondered at the time if the CU staff questioned their ability to function in the classroom.
I have no question that nationwide at multiple schools top athletes are being "assisted" to a degree that their transcripts are acceptable to schools who "want" to have them in uniform for them. I know that there are plenty of other high schools that don't play this game but if all a kid wants to do is play ball it isn't that hard to find and transfer to a school that will let him. And if that same kid can help you in the rankings plenty of colleges are willing to continue the same process.
When the kid's athletic career ends at 23-25 and he had no functional skills in the workplace these people respond with "Well, he had a chance to get an education, to bad."
If you can get past the SAT/ACT barrier getting an athlete admitted can sometimes be very easy. Way back 20+ years ago I was on a BB staff at a HS in the north suburbs of Denver. We had a couple kids transfer in from DPS schools who had transcripts that looked like they were average to above average students. Turned out they could barely read and didn't even know how to do school work.
I had the opportunity to talk with the former coach of one of them and asked him what in the **** was going on with his transcript. His response was that his administration had told/supported him in the idea that if the kid was doing well in sports and not getting in trouble they would do what was necessary to keep him in good academic standing to keep him in school, away from the gangs, and "give him a chance to play ball someplace."
One of the kids was so far behind that we put him in special ed even though he didn't have a specific handicapping condition. The other was a bright kid who had just been coasting and we managed to get him functioning well enough to graduate and get into a JC.
This incident also gave me a better insight into why CU seemed leery at the time of DPS kids to the displeasure of the Denver Community. There were some kids who came out of DPS who had good families and were qualified as students to function at CU (Billups, Graham, I.E.) but there were some others who CU passed on that I wondered at the time if the CU staff questioned their ability to function in the classroom.
I have no question that nationwide at multiple schools top athletes are being "assisted" to a degree that their transcripts are acceptable to schools who "want" to have them in uniform for them. I know that there are plenty of other high schools that don't play this game but if all a kid wants to do is play ball it isn't that hard to find and transfer to a school that will let him. And if that same kid can help you in the rankings plenty of colleges are willing to continue the same process.
When the kid's athletic career ends at 23-25 and he had no functional skills in the workplace these people respond with "Well, he had a chance to get an education, to bad."
gophers got caught for pretty much the exact same thing and got hammered by the ncaa. ahh those were the days.
This isn't new, he was what on the 2005 team? The football team got a slap on the wrist for the same thing. Either the NCAA needs to grow a backbone or just disappear.
:lol:
That'll change under Buzz but not necessarily in the direction you would hope. :devil2:
CVilleBuff
Well-Known Member
Buzz Williams salary: 2.3 million
Bennett new contract: 1.924 million (he refused to go higher and loaded his assistant salaries and has major incentives)
BuffTuba
Club Member
Official report released today. Pretty scathing. Not sure what to make of it really. I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing more investigations like this.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...raud-spanned-18-years-involved-3-100-students
http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...raud-spanned-18-years-involved-3-100-students
Buffenuf
massive tool
I'm shocked, SHOCKED to read what you have posted! Why, its almost as if you're "cynical" or something......