Why does the NCAA force kids to decide between draft and college?

[SuperD]

I get the agent factor, but if a kid doesn't hire an agent, what is the justification for a player losing his eligibility if he is not drafted. At that point he still hasn't taken a dime to play as a professional. Is it simply to make things easier for the college teams to manage their rosters and scholarships, or to make it easier for the NBA to take a closer look at a smaller pool of players that have a realistic shot? Its not like they have the microscopic analysis of all the international players they are throwing offers at. Guys are playing pro overseas and never setting foot in the US to attend a camp or go to a physical and they get drafted all the time. You could adjust the spring signing period to follow the draft. I know it would be inconvenient for the schools, but it also seems like the game would benefit by retaining borderline talent (which is still probably in the top 5% of the talent in the college game), and the kids that weren't drafted would benefit by not giving up their opportunities to get a degree, which is nominally the whole purpose of the NCAA, right?

I realize this is an academic discussion since Dre is likely to at least get drafted, but if he didn't why shouldn't he be allowed to return to Colorado rather than toil over in Europe somewhere as long as he didn't take any money. Like much of what the NCAA does, this seems like an arbitrary rule designed to put punitive consequences for daring to exercise their rights to be employed for their services, regardless of whether or not they actually give up their "amateur" status.

 

[Buffnik]

I think that there were some negotiated compromises among the NCAA, NBA and NBAPA to set the current rules.

 

[jgisland]

The problem is that they haven't come to a mutual agreement on anything. The NBA has one set of rules and the NCAA has another set of rules/deadlines and they overlap. You could be in compliance with the NBA draft rules and not the NCAA and vice-versa.

For example the NCAA early entrant withdrawal deadline was April 16th if a NCAA player had declared for the draft but decided to come back to college, but if they hadn't declared (like dre) they had until the NBA's deadline to declare which is tonight (April 28th). Under the NBA rules Dre has until June 17th to withdrawal from the draft, but the problem is if he did that he wouldn't be eligible to return and play under college rules.

None of it makes sense. The idea for the NCAA is to force the kids make a decision as early as possible so the coaches can know their roster situation as early as possible. (Hence the April 16th date which coincides with the Spring observation period for NCAA coaches). The idea for the NBA is to make it as late as possible so the NBA teams have the longest possible period to evaluate players. A lot of NBA teams haven't really started to draw up their draft boards yet b/c they just started playoff mode and haven't worked out any individual players yet.

It's a completely broken system that's self serving for everybody but the college kids trying to make the best decision for their futures.

 

[Scotch]

the problem is that they haven't come to a mutual agreement on anything. The nba has one set of rules and the ncaa has another set of rules/deadlines and they overlap. You could be in compliance with the nba draft rules and not the ncaa and vice-versa.

For example the ncaa early entrant withdrawal deadline was april 16th if a ncaa player had declared for the draft but decided to come back to college, but if they hadn't declared (like dre) they had until the nba's deadline to declare which is tonight (april 28th). Under the nba rules dre has until june 17th to withdrawal from the draft, but the problem is if he did that he wouldn't be eligible to return and play under college rules.

None of it makes sense. The idea for the ncaa is to force the kids make a decision as early as possible so the coaches can know their roster situation as early as possible. (hence the april 16th date which coincides with the spring observation period for ncaa coaches). The idea for the nba is to make it as late as possible so the nba teams have the longest possible period to evaluate players. A lot of nba teams haven't really started to draw up their draft boards yet b/c they just started playoff mode and haven't worked out any individual players yet.

it's one big money grab that's self serving for everyone involved

fify

 

[Buffs1987]

The problem is that they haven't come to a mutual agreement on anything. The NBA has one set of rules and the NCAA has another set of rules/deadlines and they overlap. You could be in compliance with the NBA draft rules and not the NCAA and vice-versa.

For example the NCAA early entrant withdrawal deadline was April 16th if a NCAA player had declared for the draft but decided to come back to college, but if they hadn't declared (like dre) they had until the NBA's deadline to declare which is tonight (April 28th). Under the NBA rules Dre has until June 17th to withdrawal from the draft, but the problem is if he did that he wouldn't be eligible to return and play under college rules.

None of it makes sense. The idea for the NCAA is to force the kids make a decision as early as possible so the coaches can know their roster situation as early as possible. (Hence the April 16th date which coincides with the Spring observation period for NCAA coaches). The idea for the NBA is to make it as late as possible so the NBA teams have the longest possible period to evaluate players. A lot of NBA teams haven't really started to draw up their draft boards yet b/c they just started playoff mode and haven't worked out any individual players yet.

It's a completely broken system that's self serving for everybody but the college kids trying to make the best decision for their futures.

As fans, what position should we take? I of course wanted 'Dre to stay but at the same time can't defend the system that seems to benefit everyone but the players.

I was in Target the other day and saw a kid's size CU basketball jersey with the number 21 on it selling for about $30...

 

[bigbang2]

Some players get advance cash from agents before the draft, they can earn money with side deals before they are drafted. The are no longer student athletes, once they hire an agent, I support the NCAA eligibility rules.

 

[buffaholic]

I think that there were some negotiated compromises among the NCAA, NBA and NBAPA to set the current rules.

I think as Jgisland mentions above, this wasn't really worked on together. The NCAA has their rules for no simpler reason than.......... well, here's an analogy:

Why do dogs lick their penises?

Because they can.

 

[Buffenuf]

As fans, what position should we take? I of course wanted 'Dre to stay but at the same time can't defend the system that seems to benefit everyone but the players.

I was in Target the other day and saw a kid's size CU basketball jersey with the number 21 on it selling for about $30...

Oh yeah, those $ 100-200K schollies that the players get, complete with S&C, PT, academic assistence, meals and books, and schmoozing with rich alums who can offer post-grad jobs........Nope! No benefit there alright!(unless you consider that only around 1% of schollie athletes ever earn a good paycheck at the next level). Ask any of those poor, "benefit-less", scholie athletes if they'd like to trade places with my kids, hashing at the sorority house or working retail at Abercrombie or counters at Jason's Deli, (and all with no tutoring, no PT if you're hurt playing intramurals or with only workouts in the Rec Center); in order to pay for college?

 

[Buffs1987]

Oh yeah, those $ 100-200K schollies that the players get, complete with S&C, PT, academic assistence, meals and books, and schmoozing with rich alums who can offer post-grad jobs........Nope! No benefit there alright!(unless you consider that only around 1% of schollie athletes ever earn a good paycheck at the next level). Ask any of those poor, "benefit-less", scholie athletes if they'd like to trade places with my kids, hashing at the sorority house or working retail at Abercrombie or counters at Jason's Deli, (and all with no tutoring, no PT if you're hurt playing intramurals or with only workouts in the Rec Center); in order to pay for college?

Your kids don't generate millions of dollars for these schools like male athletes in football and basketball do. It's relative. I don't know where you get these 100-200k or 1% numbers from and I am not sure what you're point is.

When I was in college I was able to apply for plenty of academic scholarships and there was an abundance of academic assistance readily available (free math labs, writing centers).

Really what you're saying is that it's appropriate for the NCAA to institute rules that prevent atheletes from collecting a share of the billions of dollars that are made by various television and athletic apparel corporations off their labor. "Well yeah we're making billions, but they get free dorm food and an overpriced education. And if they blow their knee out they get a few months of PT!"

What is the graduation rate of scholarship recipients in college football and basketball? If it's not close to 100% then the whole "they get an education" argument goes out the window.

The cost of school is an absolute joke, as is the entire process of book buying and selling. So what? CBS should make billions off events like March Madness while the kids see none of the revenue?

When you consider things like jerseys and sports video games, I have no clue how you can defend this system.

 

[DBT]

I think that there were some negotiated compromises among the NCAA, NBA and NBAPA to set the current rules.

Yep

 

[ShockerHoops]

The current rule can't be completely laid down on the NCAA, a lot of this rule was pushed from the NBAPA.

 

[Buffnik]

The current rule can't be completely laid down on the NCAA, a lot of this rule was pushed from the NBAPA.

Yeah. The Players Association is always the key to these things. The NFLPA is why there's that 3 year rule for football. The unions are designed to support current members, not future members, so they'll always push to delay college entrants and extend the paydays for vets. The NCAA should focus its efforts on working out a position with the NBAPA since interests align. The owners and their commissioner are somewhat supportive because college basketball allows them to avoid spending money to scout high schools, reduces draft errors that cost millions of dollars, and avoids having to deal with managing teenagers who aren't mature enough to deal with the money and lifestyle. But ownership also wouldn't have wanted to miss out on 3 years of Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett or Lebron James - which would have cost the league a lot more money than their mistakes cause.

 

[ShockerHoops]

Yeah. The Players Association is always the key to these things. The NFLPA is why there's that 3 year rule for football. The unions are designed to support current members, not future members, so they'll always push to delay college entrants and extend the paydays for vets. The NCAA should focus its efforts on working out a position with the NBAPA since interests align. The owners and their commissioner are somewhat supportive because college basketball allows them to avoid spending money to scout high schools, reduces draft errors that cost millions of dollars, and avoids having to deal with managing teenagers who aren't mature enough to deal with the money and lifestyle. But ownership also wouldn't have wanted to miss out on 3 years of Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett or Lebron James - which would have cost the league a lot more money than their mistakes cause.

Just like HR isn't there for the employee's benefit but the company's. The NBAPA is there to protect it's current players. I wouldn't be surprised if they moved to a model like the MLB and college baseball. Go pro out of HS or remain in college for 3 years. I think it would really add even more parity to college basketball. You wouldn't have the entire 1 and done recruiting classes that Kentucky continually has under Cal.