Would incremental improvement in football get you excited?

[Buffnik]

Or do you need to see a major splash in recruiting and/or results to get you fired up again?

What we're looking at is a rising undercurrent in quality of play and quality of talent.

From 1 win to 4 wins (2 against FCS). Recruiting that brought in a 4* in 2014 after landing a freshman All-American (Gillam) in 2013 that no one saw coming. We've also seen a major improvement on the transfer and JUCO sides, with 4* players being brought in each of the last 2 years and a return to finding JUCOs where there are immediate holes to fill (OL, DL, DB & Long Snapper this year / 2015 with WR and LB targets).

But we haven't seen a bowl season and recruiting is barely in the Top 50 range nationally.

Would 4 or 5 wins (all against FBS competition) in 2014 get you fired up again? Especially if it included being more competitive in the losses? -- Incremental Improvement.

Or would you need to see a bigger jump to 6 or 7 wins to get you fired up for CU football again? Especially since this would likely include a headline-making upset along the way? -- Major Splash.

On recruiting, would seeing 20-25 guys who clearly belong on an FBS field and have FBS offer lists (but maybe not many headliners) get you excited? This may be a class in the 30s or 40s in the national ranks? -- Incremental Improvement

Or would you need to see some headliners in the class that showed recruiting wins over elite programs and a ranking in the 20s for you to become enthusiastic again? -- Major Splash.

Would you need to see it in both Results & Recruiting or would either/or work for you this year?

 

[absinthe]

Steps forward is all I ask for.

 

[J.R. Ewing]

Need to see measurable steps forward, and don't ask me to squint when looking for them.

 

[CUFan]

If a kid goes down, I want to know there is someone capable of stepping in until he is back without a huge drop in play.

I want a more than capable offensive line.

I want skill position players that are a threat (more than one at a time).

I want kids that might actually make the field on a PAC roster.

I want a QB that is a threat in at least one facet, but preferably two.

I think we still have quite some time to achieve the above, so incremental is good enough for me. This program is all but dead. I've substantially lowered my long term expectations for CU. I no longer think we can get to the top again, but we can be competitive with an outside shot here or there at a division title. I will always hope for more, but the last decade has taken its toll.


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[SECOBuffsFan]

Being competitive in all the games....no more 30 to 40 point blowouts....4 or 5 solid wins and a Top 50 recruiting class in 2015

 

[BuffClass90]

I could see me getting excited if we see the same kind of statistical improvement this year we saw last year, win 5 or more games and our losses were more competitive - maybe allowing for one UW-type **** up. This will tell me last year's improvement isn't a fluke and I'll begin to get excited about the notion we should be bowling in 2015.

 

[Buffalo Brad]

Incremental for me means 5-6 wins and a class in the 30-40 range. Need something that can be built on and creates room for more improvement next year. Steady, measurable progress would keep me happy. We do that his year, and I think recruiting makes a big leap for 2016 and the it starts to roll.

 

[Dark Bohner]

If we see 5 wins and a continued closing the gap in terms of points scored vs points allowed then I will be very happy. Recruiting is fun and all, but honestly wins on the field are the only thing that matters at the end of the day. If Mac keeps improving and getting more wins then the recruiting will take care of itself.

Anything more and I will be doing cartwheels. Really bad ones.

 

[buffaholic]

I personally think we put way too much emphasis on recruiting for a program that is dog ****.
I'd be happy with incremental improvement with results and ecstatic with Major improvement.

I know it's a broken record, but I had a hard time finding turnaround stories like we are facing that had those turnarounds preceded by significant recruiting rating improvements.
What I found was good coaches, making no blip in the ratings, improving their teams, with better recruiting to follow. There's a lot of examples of this working. Recruit Rating improvement almost never showed up before the wins.

Sure, better recruiting would help accelerate this thing. Sure I'd be excited if it happened. But there's a lot of examples of teams that improved their recruiting, but failed to improve their results. But pretty much ALWAYS, when a staff get's a team playing better, recruits follow.

So my only choice would be I look for INCREMENTAL improvement in on-field play. It's a slow way to get there, but it's real.

 

[Liver]

i can't judge it until we see it. if the Buffs end up with 5 wins but play tough and close and there are real and tangible reasons to believe 2015 will be a big jump, then maybe that will be good enough. you don't know what guys are going to step up and who will get hurt, etc. you don't know for sure what the schedule is really like until you are in it. etc.

on the recruiting front, if we can't land mid-tier pac 12 guys as the core of the class, with a few bluechippers mixed in, then i don't think we can call that improvement. i don't look at recruiting stars. i look at offers. if the bulk of the class are major program recruits, and a few of them have offers from teams that are currently powers, then i will call that improvement.

all comes back to what i have been saying for a long time: to break the cycle, they either need to out-recruit the record or they need to outperform expectations on the field. this is going to have to happen quickly if we are going to break through.

 

[Deleted member 807]

A flip-flop of "no hope" games is top of the list. I'd get damn excited when CSU thinks that they have no hope of beating CU. Then progress through the P12 schools, up to the point where even USC, Oregon, and Stanford switch roles with our Buffaloes. I long for the day Buff Nation rolls into Eugene and their stadium is half empty with only die hard duck fans who are there to see CU be on the giving end of a humiliating ass whooping, for a change.

 

[goalline]

Major splash in results, period. That means recruiting is being taken care of. A great recruiting class without results is not a great recruiting class.

 

[Burrito]

I'd be invited.

Semper Gumby

 

[Dark Bohner]

Major splash in results, period. That means recruiting is being taken care of. A great recruiting class without results is not a great recruiting class.

Yep. Recruiting is meaningless if winning isn't happening.

 

[sackman]

I'll get excited about the football team when it starts performing as well as the basketball team does.

 

[fatbuff]

I agree with Liver on recruiting. I think MMac is a good coach and evaluator of talent. Where he falls on his face is selling his vision to the kids. We constantly have to settle for plan b, when other teams with better records come calling on our targets. If that doesn't improve this cycle, then I no longer support this staff, if it does I'm officially giddy.

 

[fatbuff]

I personally think we put way too much emphasis on recruiting for a program that is dog ****.
I'd be happy with incremental improvement with results and ecstatic with Major improvement.

I know it's a broken record, but I had a hard time finding turnaround stories like we are facing that had those turnarounds preceded by significant recruiting rating improvements.
What I found was good coaches, making no blip in the ratings, improving their teams, with better recruiting to follow. There's a lot of examples of this working. Recruit Rating improvement almost never showed up before the wins.

Sure, better recruiting would help accelerate this thing. Sure I'd be excited if it happened. But there's a lot of examples of teams that improved their recruiting, but failed to improve their results. But pretty much ALWAYS, when a staff get's a team playing better, recruits follow.

So my only choice would be I look for INCREMENTAL improvement in on-field play. It's a slow way to get there, but it's real.

You really shouldn't have had to look too far. BMac was entirely successful with recruiting. Players and staff. He could inspire you to fight a bear, but game day coaching left a lot to be desired.

 

[leftybuff]

I voted major splash in either.

I expect CU to sweep the OOC and take down, one, maybe two P12 opponents, so to "wow" me, they would have to get the third P12 opponent, or have a top 4 recruiting class in the P12.

 

[4DemBuffs]

I don't care about one year leaps. What I want to see is sustained improvement. If that means CU does not get a bowl game next year. That is fine. Then next year.... no.

CU is so awful and down to expect anything other than a step by step improvement is just.... well.... dumb.

The best case is to become bowl eligible in year three. Upper bowl by year 5. Make a sniff at competing for a conference championship by year 7.

CU is that far down.

I just want some damn improvement that is noticeable right now. On the field and in recruiting.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

I agree with Liver on recruiting. I think MMac is a good coach and evaluator of talent. Where he falls on his face is selling his vision to the kids. We constantly have to settle for plan b, when other teams with better records come calling on our targets. If that doesn't improve this cycle, then I no longer support this staff, if it does I'm officially giddy.

We love in a society now of instant gratification. Seems to me most kids don't want to rebuild something, they want to win and win right away. So when those programs come calling that are winning it is easy for us to get left behind. I don't know if it is the staff being unable to sell kids on the vision as much as it is kids don't care.

 

[Swish]

Satisfied and "fired up" are completely different to me.

I'll be "satisfied" with incremental improvement in both results and recruiting.

"Fired up" will take more. I like to see things popping on the recruiting end. I'm one of the guys who puts "too much" emphasis on recruiting. If we could land a couple of marquee guys - Lovette, Holiday, John Houston, etc... to go along with a solid rest of the class (including Lynott) that would give me confidence that this staff is inspiring confidence in the program and kids are buying in to the idea that CU can be great again and want to be a part of it.

 

[InTheBuff]

the program was burned to the ground so baby steps is about what I expect ... anything beyond that and I'll be thrilled

 

[Buffnik]

Satisfied and "fired up" are completely different to me.

I'll be "satisfied" with incremental improvement in both results and recruiting.

"Fired up" will take more. I like to see things popping on the recruiting end. I'm one of the guys who puts "too much" emphasis on recruiting. If we could land a couple of marquee guys - Lovette, Holiday, John Houston, etc... to go along with a solid rest of the class (including Lynott) that would give me confidence that this staff is inspiring confidence in the program and kids are buying in to the idea that CU can be great again and want to be a part of it.

I'm glad you picked up on the distinction.

I wrote it that way for a reason.

I'll be satisfied if I see a continuation of the positive momentum with tangible incremental improvements. That's actually what I expect.

But for me to get fired up (somewhere onto the "giddy" spectrum, in other words), I need to see a breakthrough in record or recruiting.

 

[Swish]

And I can have a little patience as long as we are clearly making progress. But I would much rather have a reason to really get excited about Buff football again. I'd love to mothball F.I.M.

 

[Darian3Hagan]

I'll get excited about the football team when it starts performing as well as the basketball team does.

Thats fair. 2nd.

 

[Duff Man]

Recruiting actually improving and not in some fantasy laand where our coaches are the greatest talent evaluators in the history of football will satisfy me.

 

[MtnBuff]

I want to see a foundation built that will set us up to be competitive and improving in future years.

I would of course get excited if we won 7 games next year but 4-5 wins with the probability of a better future is more important to me. I also want to see the kind of recruiting classes that improve our talent level each year and give us PAC level athletes and skills to fill future depth charts.

I don't want to see us sell out with flash kids who aren't around in two years. I don't want to see fluky wins by a team that is going to get drilled in future seasons.

I want to see us beat the teams we should beat and the definition of teams we should beat improve each year.

 

[buffaholic]

You really shouldn't have had to look too far. BMac was entirely successful with recruiting. Players and staff. He could inspire you to fight a bear, but game day coaching left a lot to be desired.

BMac was way before the modern era of the internet. I have no idea how many guys he was taking from USC in the early stages, but I am sure that CU isn't signing up in the post Lisa Simpson era for another "What Price Glory" article in S.I.

 

[fatbuff]

We love in a society now of instant gratification. Seems to me most kids don't want to rebuild something, they want to win and win right away. So when those programs come calling that are winning it is easy for us to get left behind. I don't know if it is the staff being unable to sell kids on the vision as much as it is kids don't care.

I can understand losing recruits to USC, even UW and Oregon. But, we are losing kids to teams that don't have any history of winning, recent or otherwise. And, I understand its been a while since we were winning games, but you have to sell something. Its human nature to want to win, its always been that way. A good recruiter will make you believe that you can win here.

 

[Highlander]

I'm glad you picked up on the distinction.

I wrote it that way for a reason.

I'll be satisfied if I see a continuation of the positive momentum with tangible incremental improvements. That's actually what I expect.

But for me to get fired up (somewhere onto the "giddy" spectrum, in other words), I need to see a breakthrough in record or recruiting.

I picked up the distinction my second time returning after already voting. I expect incremental improvement on both fronts (possibly a painfully slow transition). Excitement would come from a major splash in one of the other and based on early returns, it would have to be on the field results because I just don't see a major recruiting bump coming without the on field results with this staff. That isn't meant to be a bust - this staff was built to coach and build a program - not as dynamic recruiters (for better or worse).