TE Recruiting under Embree

[boydbuff]

We have had a lot of debate this year as probably all years about the need to upgrade our talent at all positions and to fill out our roster with as many blue chips as possible. Some ABers are more optimistic some are more pessimistic and some are more demanding than others.

Regardless of your opinion about how easy or hard it should be for us to recruit blue chippers in light of our record, facilities, etc. if there was one position, and one position only that we should expect a major blue chip recruit, it has to be Tight End.

We have a head coach who was a TE at CU and in the NFL and has coached a few of the best TEs in the history of the NFL. We have committed to pro-style offense that will heavily involve TEs if we have good ones.

We have Irwin and Ray which are a good start and given the likelihood of using 2 TE sets, we need to have those guys regardless.

But we need to find a way to get a major Blue Chip TE and I am surprised Embree hasn't been able to yet. We lost out on McNamara and JCF. Are we still in on any major blue chip prospect at TE? If not, why didn't we get a bluechip TE this year unless we count Ray as one?

 

[Buffnik]

Cope-Fitzpatrick is visiting the weekend of the 13th.

 

[Darth Snow]

is not finished yet...

 

[Jaximus]

Hopefully Embree is constantly staying on the mind of the TE from Chapparal. But keep in mind, TE is a position that will not make or break this team. I'd take a good QB, OT, RB and WR in that order before we have a good TE. If Wood or Dillon are the real deal, we will have no trouble getting top talent who will want to come in and benefit.

But it all starts with a good QB and solid O-Line.

 

[NW Buff]

Hopefully Embree is constantly staying on the mind of the TE from Chapparal. But keep in mind, TE is a position that will not make or break this team. I'd take a good QB, OT, RB and WR in that order before we have a good TE. If Wood or Dillon are the real deal, we will have no trouble getting top talent who will want to come in and benefit.

But it all starts with a good QB and solid O-Line.

I disagree with you about how important TE is to this team. From what I understand we are aiming at a Stanford-like offense. TE is huge.

 

[sackman]

TE is an integral part of this offense, and for good reason - most college defenses are simply not equipped to properly defend a quality TE.

 

[boydbuff]

TE is an integral part of this offense, and for good reason - most college defenses are simply not equipped to properly defend a quality TE.

I'd go even further-has anyone noticed how some TEs are blowing up the NFL these days? Gronkowski at New England-6'6" 265 lbs, just tearing up NFL defenses.

Just the other day I was watching the Broncos terrible loss and there was a play where our world class lock-down corner, Bailey, had absolutely perfect coverage on a tall receiver (don't remember if it was tight end or WR) yet the receiver caught the ball because he had several inches on Bailey.

As Sackman said, who in college can cover a tall, strong, fast tight end? A 5'11" speedy corner is doomed even with lock-down coverage if you have an accurate passer on the other end. A LB can try but very few LBs can stay with a TE man-to-man for long, and if they can it opens up the run game.

So I absolutely believe in the value of the TE, especially in a pro-style offense-they can tear things up blocking for other receivers and RBs and they can really attack the middle of the field opening up other opportunities.

And again, if anyone should be able to recruit the next Gronkowski, it ought to be Embree.

 

[Duff Man]

It is also worth noting that TEs help set a physical tone in the running game and they help set the edge. If you watched our TEs this season, there were a lot of missed blocks that doomed plays.

 

[Darth Snow]

It is also worth noting that TEs help set a physical tone in the running game and they help set the edge. If you watched our TEs this season, there were a lot of missed blocks that doomed plays.

yup. Same problems go for the passing game as well, both blocking and getting open. I will never forget Deehan failing to remember his play / run his route in the penultimate play for our offense against Wazzu

 

[tante]

there is a reason the longest threads in the recruiting forum are for TE's.

 

[BuffUp]

devils advocate - none of these kids know Embree or that he played tight end and for that matter they do not know who he coached in the NFL... kids look at wins and loses and uniforms after that, they look at potential play time

 

[BuffUp]

I'd go even further-has anyone noticed how some TEs are blowing up the NFL these days? Gronkowski at New England-6'6" 265 lbs, just tearing up NFL defenses.

Just the other day I was watching the Broncos terrible loss and there was a play where our world class lock-down corner, Bailey, had absolutely perfect coverage on a tall receiver (don't remember if it was tight end or WR) yet the receiver caught the ball because he had several inches on Bailey.

As Sackman said, who in college can cover a tall, strong, fast tight end? A 5'11" speedy corner is doomed even with lock-down coverage if you have an accurate passer on the other end. A LB can try but very few LBs can stay with a TE man-to-man for long, and if they can it opens up the run game.

So I absolutely believe in the value of the TE, especially in a pro-style offense-they can tear things up blocking for other receivers and RBs and they can really attack the middle of the field opening up other opportunities.

And again, if anyone should be able to recruit the next Gronkowski, it ought to be Embree.

+ 1 and this is the fastest growing position in the NFL and soon to be in college - followed closely by fullbacks

 

[Duff Man]

Brookhart plays a role here as well. I know a lot of people think a position coach should never be held accountable for the recruiting at his position, but I think Brookhart is not clicking with a lot of players on the recruiting trail, including tight ends.

 

[boydbuff]

Brookhart plays a role here as well. I know a lot of people think a position coach should never be held accountable for the recruiting at his position, but I think Brookhart is not clicking with a lot of players on the recruiting trail, including tight ends.

That's a good point. Not sure if we have evidence to support it but if it were true, I think Embree should set aside the TE position and say that one he owns. I don't think anyone in college football should be able to outrecruit Embree (who is already known as a strong recruiter) for the TE position given his background and what his plans are for TE in our offense. And yes he can offer immediate playing time to a JCF-caliber TE.

 

[Tractor]

I'd go even further-has anyone noticed how some TEs are blowing up the NFL these days? Gronkowski at New England-6'6" 265 lbs, just tearing up NFL defenses.

Just the other day I was watching the Broncos terrible loss and there was a play where our world class lock-down corner, Bailey, had absolutely perfect coverage on a tall receiver (don't remember if it was tight end or WR) yet the receiver caught the ball because he had several inches on Bailey.

As Sackman said, who in college can cover a tall, strong, fast tight end? A 5'11" speedy corner is doomed even with lock-down coverage if you have an accurate passer on the other end. A LB can try but very few LBs can stay with a TE man-to-man for long, and if they can it opens up the run game.

So I absolutely believe in the value of the TE, especially in a pro-style offense-they can tear things up blocking for other receivers and RBs and they can really attack the middle of the field opening up other opportunities.

And again, if anyone should be able to recruit the next Gronkowski, it ought to be Embree.

It was Bowe, and I agree with everything you said here

 

[J.R. Ewing]

TE is a difficult position to recruit. A lot of HS teams don't use them, or if they do, they put they're 6th largest O-linemen there. Not a lot of kids coming out of HS who are talented emough to step onto the field at tight end a year or two out of HS. Many of those who are eventually drafted were bulked up WRs, slimmed down linemen, or switched over entirely from LB or FB.

 

[MtnBuff]

I'd go even further-has anyone noticed how some TEs are blowing up the NFL these days? Gronkowski at New England-6'6" 265 lbs, just tearing up NFL defenses.

Just the other day I was watching the Broncos terrible loss and there was a play where our world class lock-down corner, Bailey, had absolutely perfect coverage on a tall receiver (don't remember if it was tight end or WR) yet the receiver caught the ball because he had several inches on Bailey.

As Sackman said, who in college can cover a tall, strong, fast tight end? A 5'11" speedy corner is doomed even with lock-down coverage if you have an accurate passer on the other end. A LB can try but very few LBs can stay with a TE man-to-man for long, and if they can it opens up the run game.

So I absolutely believe in the value of the TE, especially in a pro-style offense-they can tear things up blocking for other receivers and RBs and they can really attack the middle of the field opening up other opportunities.

And again, if anyone should be able to recruit the next Gronkowski, it ought to be Embree.

This is why Shanno Sharpe is in the HOF, nobody could cover him. Brandon Marshall and the guys like him are basically TE's who split out wide for the same reasons.

What gets overlooked in this is that Embree and EB want to have a balanced attack with a power running game as the basis. TEs in this type of offense tend to be the guys who handle the OLBs or safeties at the point of attack allowing 3-4 gains to turn into 10-15 yard gains. Also an effective TE can both block effectively but also be a big enough threat as a reciever that the defenses have to play him honest or risk getting ripped for huge plays down the middle of the field.

Part of the frustration of this year is that the HS kids don't know who Embree is. Much of recruiting is built on relationships established through having kids in camps, introductions when the kids are HS underclassmen by their HS coaches, etc.

Embree has only had one year to work on those relationships spending his prior years in the NFL. He hasn't had a chance to get "his kids" into Boulder for summer camps, he doesn't have kids he has recruited talking him up to the HS kids back home yet.

Also our TE's last year just weren't that good. Deehan was solid but not a standout, Thornton was not an effective blocker and tended to drop passes. As a result CU doesn't have the tape to show prospects to show them that they can be key parts of the offense here.

 

[Johnny Juzang]

I think we have two good tight ends coming in. If we get a third, great.

 

[89BUFF89]

Our offense has pretty much stunk (< 30 pts./game) going on 10 years now, kids with options look around and see more exciting teams everywhere.....it's no wonder top ranked kids on that side of the ball shy away. We need to start scoring 30+ pts a game and creating some excitement before we see big time kids go to CU...

 

[sackman]

TE is a difficult position to recruit. A lot of HS teams don't use them, or if they do, they put they're 6th largest O-linemen there. Not a lot of kids coming out of HS who are talented emough to step onto the field at tight end a year or two out of HS. Many of those who are eventually drafted were bulked up WRs, slimmed down linemen, or switched over entirely from LB or FB.

This.
The vast majority of high school football teams don't make much of an effort to throw the ball. It's too complicated. Too much stuff can go wrong, so they don't even try. There is a very small group of high school teams that actually utilize the tight end. It's no small wonder that there aren't a lot of tight ends in college given the lack of development of the position at the high school level.

 

[MtnBuff]

Our offense has pretty much stunk (< 30 pts./game) going on 10 years now, kids with options look around and see more exciting teams everywhere.....it's no wonder top ranked kids on that side of the ball shy away. We need to start scoring 30+ pts a game and creating some excitement before we see big time kids go to CU...

^^This^^

Want top recruits, beat some people on TV.

We need to win some games against decent opponents. This year on the field is going to be critical for future recruiting. We don't need to win the conference or anything like that but we have to win enough to show kids that we are going the right way. Beat the teams we should and win a couple we shouldn't.

 

[MtnBuff]

This.
The vast majority of high school football teams don't make much of an effort to throw the ball. It's too complicated. Too much stuff can go wrong, so they don't even try. There is a very small group of high school teams that actually utilize the tight end. It's no small wonder that there aren't a lot of tight ends in college given the lack of development of the position at the high school level.

This, and a kid who is a big, fast, strong, athlete (TE ability) can influence a lot more plays at a HS level playing DE or LB so they end up not playing TE.

 

[Jaximus]

I disagree with you about how important TE is to this team. From what I understand we are aiming at a Stanford-like offense. TE is huge.

I'm not saying that TE isn't important. I'm saying that I'd take an elite player at the positions I listed first.

Here is my list of importance in the offense:

QB - Most important player on the team.
OT - An elite Left and Right OT affects the Run and Pass. All other positions are screwed without a good play from these positions.
RB - Integral part of the pro style offense. You going to tell me you'd rather have Stanford's TE's over Oregon's Lamichael James?
WR - This could be a little more debated or interchanged with TE. But it is a huge weapon to have an elite WR to go with a good QB. How many WR's will be drafted this year before a TE?
TE - A good blocker helps the run and an elite athlete can be a huge weapon. But I'd still take a good player in the categories above it first.
OG/C - Big nasty guys who can both pull to take out the DE or OLB and protect the passer.
FB - A luxury in most cases to have an elite FB. But can be the heart and soul of a team. Really boost the RB with a good one!

I'm eager to see someone move TE much higher up on that list.

 

[boydbuff]

According to Rivals there are only 11 4* TEs and no 5* in the 2012 class.

http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/quicklist.asp?Position=10&sport=1

So the arguments above that there are not enough quality TEs in general makes sense given this year's numbers. Pisses me off the Florida and Oregon each got 2 of the 4* TEs and one of those, Baylis is from Colorado!

 

[MtnBuff]

According to Rivals there are only 11 4* TEs and no 5* in the 2012 class.

http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/quicklist.asp?Position=10&sport=1

So the arguments above that there are not enough quality TEs in general makes sense given this year's numbers. Pisses me off the Florida and Oregon each got 2 of the 4* TEs and one of those, Baylis is from Colorado!

I think Baylis is very good and wish he was going to CU but I don't think he is a 4* TE. I think his rating is based on the Oregon commit and some other big offers.

 

[buffaholic]

Brookhart plays a role here as well. I know a lot of people think a position coach should never be held accountable for the recruiting at his position, but I think Brookhart is not clicking with a lot of players on the recruiting trail, including tight ends.

I think it's a bit early to make a judgement as to the above. We seem to have 2 guys lined up and a visit coming from a 3rd.

I think his job is a little tougher given we ran a pro-style system this year and didn't really utilize the TE that much. I happen to think this will change when they get the right athletes in here. In the meantime, they are selling Powerpoint. I've meet JD and I think he is a coach who will do well on the recruiting trail. But it's a little tough trail right now at this position.