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Will not see a starting QB named until fall (most likely)

SINKRATZ said:
Based on what? Honestly, not trying to be a smartass, but so far he's shown he can't play any better in practice, and wins games with the same frequency - maybe he's more athletic, but so is Clark Evans and he's a TE now.
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Well I think you would be hard pressed to argue that the offense did not improve significantly once Tyler took over. As far as comparing them as passers, I think they're somewhat similar except Tyler has a stronger arm and actually tries to throw it down the field. I guess what our difference in opinion is based on is practice; you put a lot of emphasis on it and I don't. The games won doesn't really make much sense to me, Tyler won 2 last year, Cody won 1. Neither one is a "winning" qb, but Tyler has had to play against B12 competition, while Cody secured a win vs Wyoming. To me, it's as simple as this: Cody has been benched in favor of Tyler two years in a row because Cody couldn't get it done when game time rolled around. Maybe Cody does know the offense better, maybe Tyler has dropped the ball and still somehow doesn't really understand the offense, but seriously are we kidding ourselves? They have talked all offseason about dumbing the offense down, how the players don't know the offense yet is simply beyond comprehension.
 
Rugged said:
I feel your pain, brother.
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maybe you guys just aren't as funny as you think you are? And its not people being unable to see your suppposed wit, but merely the fact that your comedy falls far short of being worthy of notice? :smile2:
 
more info... The Chart!
http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/11551/colorado-qb-race-starts-with-a-chart

BOULDER, Colo. -- Cody Hawkins doesn’t need to ask Dan Hawkins for an update on where he stands in the quarterback competition. Neither does fellow candidate Tyler Hansen, and he’s not asking offensive coordinator Eric Kiesau either, who said the competition will likely last until fall.

They don’t need to. All either needs to do is take a glance at The Chart—the one keeping track of every single throw they make at any point during a practice.

“They have everything charted out, from Practice One to the first scrimmage,” Cody Hawkins said. “You can go down and if you want to review the whole practice, they have guys who that’s specifically their job, they’re charting us.”

The chart is essentially a glorified quarterback rating, reflecting each quarterback’s completion percentage, touchdown passes, touchdown drive percentage and a handful of other stats—most importantly, interceptions.
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I think Dr. Saturday has a good handle on what this means...

• Show us your charts. Colorado quarterbacks Tyler Hansen and Cody Hawkins remain dead even for the Buffs' starting job (what else is new?), but the final decision isn't going to come on a whim: CU coaches are using "The Chart" to track every single throw either QB makes this spring and distill it into an overall performance metric. Said Hansen: "This is unbelievable. We weight every rep." Based on the persistent flip-flopping over the last two years, it will still have no bearing on keeping either one on the field for an extended period in the fall. [ESPN]
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http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/footba...-AD-s-hideous-salary-just-a-?urn=ncaaf,232075

:bang:
 
White_Rabbit said:
Well I think you would be hard pressed to argue that the offense did not improve significantly once Tyler took over. As far as comparing them as passers, I think they're somewhat similar except Tyler has a stronger arm and actually tries to throw it down the field. I guess what our difference in opinion is based on is practice; you put a lot of emphasis on it and I don't. The games won doesn't really make much sense to me, Tyler won 2 last year, Cody won 1. Neither one is a "winning" qb, but Tyler has had to play against B12 competition, while Cody secured a win vs Wyoming. To me, it's as simple as this: Cody has been benched in favor of Tyler two years in a row because Cody couldn't get it done when game time rolled around. Maybe Cody does know the offense better, maybe Tyler has dropped the ball and still somehow doesn't really understand the offense, but seriously are we kidding ourselves? They have talked all offseason about dumbing the offense down, how the players don't know the offense yet is simply beyond comprehension.
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My opinion has very little to do with practice - look at the games alone, they've won about the same, put up similar numbers, and don't forget TH has been benched too (see ISU in 2008).

My issue is that it seems a lot of people like Tyler because he's not Cody, rather than because he's clearly the better QB. It's a coaching/recruiting issue IMO...it just doesn't seem like Tyler is any better a player now than he was when he first trotted out on the field in 2008.
 
Cody Hawkins has the brains for the offense Hawkins/Keissau want to run. He doesn't have the arm/body for it.

Tyler Hansen has the body/arm to run the offense. But not the brains.
 
At this point, I wouldn't blame Hansen if he left CU after the spring semester is over. You can only jack someone around so much before they've had all they can take...


And before someone says it, no, I do not want him to leave. Just saying I would understand.
 
SINKRATZ said:
My opinion has very little to do with practice - look at the games alone, they've won about the same, put up similar numbers, and don't forget TH has been benched too (see ISU in 2008).

My issue is that it seems a lot of people like Tyler because he's not Cody, rather than because he's clearly the better QB. It's a coaching/recruiting issue IMO...it just doesn't seem like Tyler is any better a player now than he was when he first trotted out on the field in 2008.
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Well being benched as a true freshman who was handcuffed and knew nothing about the offense is a lot different than being benched as a redshirt sophomore and again as a redshirt junior imo. The coaches tossed him out there way too early and I don't think Tyler should be held liable for that. I think we can both agree that the QB position is not really a position of strength on this team, whether it's Tyler or Cody. Do you think Cody starting in another QB centric offense will prove to be successful?

On another note, I'm glad to see the race will not be won by what the coaches see and feel, but rather a chart. I take it Kiseau and Hawk are big baseball statheads? I suppose they also think spring training means anything? Better bench Morneau quick, I think he's batting .150 this spring.

TBD moment here, but I think the chart is just a bull**** excuse to use so when Cody "wins" it they can say it wasn't nepotism at all, simply the chart that forced their hand in starting Cody. Glad to see a QB competition can be won on a field where the QB can't be touched.
 
I'll be as disappointed as anyone if Cody is the starter against CSU, but not because I'm convinced that Tyler obviously deserves the job...I'll be disappointed because I may have to accept the fact that Cody might actually be the best QB to run this offense which is sad and an indictment of this staff.
 
SnowBuff said:
maybe you guys just aren't as funny as you think you are? And its not people being unable to see your suppposed wit, but merely the fact that your comedy falls far short of being worthy of notice? :smile2:
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I'm definitely not as funny as I think I am.
 
wsp4820 said:
These coaches are doing themselves a disservice. We've seen what happens on the field. They should have told Tyler he was the guy and let this be his team. They are crippling him by the way they keep undercutting his playing time and leadership role. I'll admit, during the scrimmage it did look like Cody was being a better leader. But, I think if the coaches had shown more confidence in Tyler and worked with him to grow into that leader role, things would be different.
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I could not agree more. You cannot expect the kid to be a leader on or off the field if you continue to show no confidence in him and continue to pick the coaches son despite his lack of productivity in any category. This team cannot be successful until the coaches stop trying to give Cody chances and just name Tyler the starter and let him develop the rapport and trust of his teammates
 
SINKRATZ said:
My opinion has very little to do with practice - look at the games alone, they've won about the same, put up similar numbers, and don't forget TH has been benched too (see ISU in 2008).

My issue is that it seems a lot of people like Tyler because he's not Cody, rather than because he's clearly the better QB. It's a coaching/recruiting issue IMO...it just doesn't seem like Tyler is any better a player now than he was when he first trotted out on the field in 2008.
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I disagree with this thought...... Cody has had AMPLE opportunity to show improvement in ANY ASPECT OF HIS GAME. He has failed. Tyler keeps getting tiny tastes of a game experience but keeps getting yanked in favor of Cody. He needs an opportunity to learn and grow in the game. He cannot succeed without his coaches showing some trust in him.

I THINK the most telling thing is this..... the coaches admitted last year that when Cody is in they have to literally alter the offense to accommodate his lack of arm strength and height by using sets like a spread/ shotgun which we do not have the personnel for. You cannot change the entire offense to get ONE QB who is not any better than the back up on the field. You can only set up your offense around a player if he makes the team better. You cannot build around a weak link.
 
Cody should not see the field unless Hansen is hurt. Period, end of story. That said, I think we all know we will see a steady diet of Cody during the season while the Buffs rack up another impressive 3-5 win season. Cody will extend his career INT record to make sure it is untouchable.

We've all seen what Cody has to offer the past 3 years and it's just not enough on gameday. I don't care if he's the best practice QB in the history of football. He just does not have the tools to get it done when it matters.
 
SnowBuff said:
more info... The Chart!
http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/11551/colorado-qb-race-starts-with-a-chart



I think Dr. Saturday has a good handle on what this means...



http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/footba...-AD-s-hideous-salary-just-a-?urn=ncaaf,232075

:bang:
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Sigh... I think people know that I've never fallen into the conspiracy theory group but this is stretching even my ability to ignore it. When I saw this today, my first reaction was to say, no way. Then I started to think about it. It's a way to get Cody into the starting role and say, see, look at the chart, it say he's better. Nothing to do with coaches bias, just the chart. The fact that last year, every one of us could see that TH was better in games seems to be irrelevant. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.
 
i don't know if it's a conspiracy but when i read about the chart i groaned inside. we're always re-inventing the wheel with Hawk. conventional football is way too square for Dan. it's football, not social science research.
 
Ralphandler1 said:
I disagree with this thought...... Cody has had AMPLE opportunity to show improvement in ANY ASPECT OF HIS GAME. He has failed. Tyler keeps getting tiny tastes of a game experience but keeps getting yanked in favor of Cody. He needs an opportunity to learn and grow in the game. He cannot succeed without his coaches showing some trust in him.

I THINK the most telling thing is this..... the coaches admitted last year that when Cody is in they have to literally alter the offense to accommodate his lack of arm strength and height by using sets like a spread/ shotgun which we do not have the personnel for. You cannot change the entire offense to get ONE QB who is not any better than the back up on the field. You can only set up your offense around a player if he makes the team better. You cannot build around a weak link.
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We're just going to disagree here. Tyler has started 13 games and played in a couple others - that's a hell of a lot more than a "tiny taste" of experience. Ballenger had a tiny taste, Hansen has started more games than Cody over the last 2 years. That's real experience.

If, as you claim, the coaches had to change up the entire offense to suit Cody when he came in, then who was it designed for up to that point? That's right, Tyler.

Why does everyone seem so bent on the coaches annointing Tyler now, so that he can become the leader? Leaders just lead, they don't need to be told they are the leader. Perhaps it's the other way around - if he would step up as the leader now, maybe the players and coaches would jump on his back and he would become the starter. If the rest of the team is waiting for "The Chart" to determine their leader, I'm sorry but we're f**ked.
 
Mick Ronson said:
i don't know if it's a conspiracy but when i read about the chart i groaned inside. we're always re-inventing the wheel with Hawk. conventional football is way too square for Dan. it's football, not social science research.
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IMO there is a 50/50 chance DH puts CH out on the filed as a starter. He just cannot let it go. At the UT game, CH was benched, for the third time, in favor of a different QB. We were told CH wants to be a coach, now he will se what it is like. Both prior times, DH was given enough time for his thought process to reconvince himself CH was the best option, and Cody was back on the field. I suspect it will be no different here. DH will stare at the "chart" until the conclusion is obvious....CH should start. For DH, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy, the guy is like a moth to the flame on this issue.
 
Mick Ronson said:
i don't know if it's a conspiracy but when i read about the chart i groaned inside. we're always re-inventing the wheel with Hawk. conventional football is way too square for Dan. it's football, not social science research.
Click to expand...

No doubt. I get coaches want to do it their "own way" and all that, but in the end, it is still just football. For whatever reason, our coaching staff feels they need to "edgy" or "different" with so many things that it ends up being a complete mess.
 
leftybuff said:
IMO there is a 50/50 chance DH puts CH out on the filed as a starter. He just cannot let it go. At the UT game, CH was benched, for the third time, in favor of a different QB. We were told CH wants to be a coach, now he will se what it is like. Both prior times, DH was given enough time for his thought process to reconvince himself CH was the best option, and Cody was back on the field. I suspect it will be no different here. DH will stare at the "chart" until the conclusion is obvious....CH should start. For DH, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy, the guy is like a moth to the flame on this issue.
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the fact that Cody is a senior is something i hope (pray) does not come into play with Dan.
 
Mick Ronson said:
the fact that Cody is a senior is something i hope (pray) does not come into play with Dan.
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I suspect it will. At some time during the season we will hear: "You can't just let a fifth year senior sit the bench, that kind of experience is invaluable", or something along those lines....
 
AlferdJasper said:
I didn't realize that.
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You didn't realize that...because it's not true. Cody has started 13 versus 11 for Tyler over the last 2 years, at least that's my count.

Cody started the first 6 games of 2008, then Tyler started KSU, Mizz, TAMU, and ISU (benched for Cody in ISU game). Cody finished up 2008 with starts at OSU and Nebraska. Tyler was a DNP for the last 2 games. 2008 total: 8 starts for Cody, 4 for Tyler.

In 2009, Cody started the first 5 games (he was benched in the 2nd half of Texas game). Tyler then started the remaining 7 games.
 
Creebuzz said:
You didn't realize that...because it's not true. Cody has started 13 versus 11 for Tyler over the last 2 years, at least that's my count.

Cody started the first 6 games of 2008, then Tyler started KSU, Mizz, TAMU, and ISU (benched for Cody in ISU game). Cody finished up 2008 with starts at OSU and Nebraska. Tyler was a DNP for the last 2 games. 2008 total: 8 starts for Cody, 4 for Tyler.

In 2009, Cody started the first 5 games (he was benched in the 2nd half of Texas game). Tyler then started the remaining 7 games.
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Thanks much. I was going to go back through the stats and wondered how I had always thought Cody had more starts ... I retain the reins to my sanity for another brief moment.
 
leftybuff said:
I suspect it will. At some time during the season we will hear: "You can't just let a fifth year senior sit the bench, that kind of experience is invaluable", or something along those lines....
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Funny you brought that up. I was trying to think of something Coach Hawk could say that would play well with CU fans. What I came up with was, "Tyler Hansen will be our starter, because he's a playmaker and puts a lot of pressure on a defense. I also believe we're very fortunate to have as our backup a 5th year senior with as much game experience as Cody, who can maybe be a coach on the sideline for Tyler since Kiesau is up in the booth." :smile2:
 
Buffnik said:
Funny you brought that up. I was trying to think of something Coach Hawk could say that would play well with CU fans. What I came up with was, "Tyler Hansen will be our starter, because he's a playmaker and puts a log of pressure on a defense. I also believe we're very fortunate to have as our backup a 5th year senior with as much game experience as Cody, who can maybe be a coach on the sideline for Tyler since Kiesau is up in the booth." :smile2:
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I dunno Nik, not sure if Hawk talking about Tyler's "log" will sit well with CU fans. :smile:
 
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