'12 CO OG Alex Kozan (Signed to Auburn)

[BehindEnemyLines]

Wrong player. That was O'Connor who was a PSU commit.

:doh:


Ah ****. Nice catch.

 

[mattrob]

If someone doesn't respond well to Embo's way, then I really don't want the kid to commit here anyway. Embo told the in-state guys that they have a chance to be part of something special by committing here versus being just another guy on the team. Some of them apparently took that as disrespect because he didn't tell them that they'd all be special players no matter where they went. No big loss. In fact, better to find out that they can't handle the culture now rather than after they commit.

Embo's personality isn't going to mesh with a lot of guys. He's in your face. He's brash. He's emotional. He's hypercompetitive. He was swag before the term "swag" existed. That environment is not for everyone. In fact, it's not for most. We need guys who fit the program.

I agree with a lot of this, and wouldn't have any problem with it if we were just talking about Kozan. My concern is that, at one point this spring, we were waiting on commits from Kozan, Thurston, Bayliss, and Callahan. Shortly after the spring game (I'm guessing that was around the time this message was delivered), three of them were committed elsewhere and Kozan had all but moved on. When the message runs off possibly the top-4 in-state prospects, all of whom play at glaring positions of need, JE needs to re-evaluate that message, or at least the way it was delivered. I don't expect him to take part in the annual dog and pony show and tell these guys they're all once-in-a-generation players, but there has to be some middle ground there. Now, I can't say that alone was the reason all four committed elsewhere, but after hearing this, it sounds like it may have played a big role. Fortunately, out of state recruiting is looking up right now, but this class would look a whole lot better with 1-2 of these 4 in it.

 

[Highlander27]

If someone doesn't respond well to Embo's way, then I really don't want the kid to commit here anyway. Embo told the in-state guys that they have a chance to be part of something special by committing here versus being just another guy on the team. Some of them apparently took that as disrespect because he didn't tell them that they'd all be special players no matter where they went. No big loss. In fact, better to find out that they can't handle the culture now rather than after they commit.

Embo's personality isn't going to mesh with a lot of guys. He's in your face. He's brash. He's emotional. He's hypercompetitive. He was swag before the term "swag" existed. That environment is not for everyone. In fact, it's not for most. We need guys who fit the program.

As always, hammer meets nail. Spot on assessment. I can't imagine a kid who wouldn't love Embree.

4* OL in-state issue is just baffling. Seems like there is something beneath all this outside the game of football. Can't put my finger on it or articulate it very well but it doesn't seem right. Almost like something is being held against Embree.

 

[Ozbuff]

I agree with a lot of this, and wouldn't have any problem with it if we were just talking about Kozan. My concern is that, at one point this spring, we were waiting on commits from Kozan, Thurston, Bayliss, and Callahan. Shortly after the spring game (I'm guessing that was around the time this message was delivered), three of them were committed elsewhere and Kozan had all but moved on. When the message runs off possibly the top-4 in-state prospects, all of whom play at glaring positions of need, JE needs to re-evaluate that message, or at least the way it was delivered. I don't expect him to take part in the annual dog and pony show and tell these guys they're all once-in-a-generation players, but there has to be some middle ground there. Now, I can't say that alone was the reason all four committed elsewhere, but after hearing this, it sounds like it may have played a big role. Fortunately, out of state recruiting is looking up right now, but this class would look a whole lot better with 1-2 of these 4 in it.

Hopefully they weren't all turned off by Embree's message. If so, I'm sure it was just a misunderstanding. I'm sure he never intended to downplay their abilities or that they'd be "scrubs" on another team. I'm sure the point he was making was that playing at CU during these rebuilding years gives them an opportunity to be part of something special. Conversely, winning at Oregon or Auburn wouldn't be as special. I guess we'll never really know why more in-state guys haven't committed this year (unless the coaches manage to flip some), but hopefully the trend won't continue. I'm hoping that two or three years from now CU will consistently get more than half the top ten in-state players.

 

[JimmyBuff]

I agree with a lot of this, and wouldn't have any problem with it if we were just talking about Kozan. My concern is that, at one point this spring, we were waiting on commits from Kozan, Thurston, Bayliss, and Callahan. Shortly after the spring game (I'm guessing that was around the time this message was delivered), three of them were committed elsewhere and Kozan had all but moved on. When the message runs off possibly the top-4 in-state prospects, all of whom play at glaring positions of need, JE needs to re-evaluate that message, or at least the way it was delivered. I don't expect him to take part in the annual dog and pony show and tell these guys they're all once-in-a-generation players, but there has to be some middle ground there. Now, I can't say that alone was the reason all four committed elsewhere, but after hearing this, it sounds like it may have played a big role. Fortunately, out of state recruiting is looking up right now, but this class would look a whole lot better with 1-2 of these 4 in it.

Ding, Ding, Ding. We have a winner.

 

[MtnBuff]

I'd also prefer a coach like Embree who is honest with recruits instead of some of the guys out there who promise kids the moon then manage to "forget" all of it the day camp starts.

Simple fact is that at a lot of the major schools a kid from Colorado has to be markedly better than a kid from the home state or from a major recruiting state like Texas or California to see the field. We have seen plenty of highly ranked recruits from Colorado go out of state and dissapear off the radar. In some cases it is because the kid just wasn't good enough. In others it would be easy to argue that politics was at play.

Bottom line, each kid has to decide what is the best situation for him. That said as Embee brings winning back to Boulder it will be interesting to see how many of these kids suddenly decide that CU is the right situation. Mac and a lot of other coaches believe that it is more important to have the right player than the best player. If a guy doesn't think he is right for Embree then he probably isn't.

I'd like it if Alex decides to go to CU but I'm not going to be broken up if he doesn't.

 

[Buffs4Life]

What he told me was that he brought in all the top recruits like bayliss, callahan, and some others and told them if they didnt go to cu they would just be scrubs on the bench at big time schools and kozan did not like that

The situation you're talking about happened at Spring Game when Coach Embree met at halftime with all of the in-state recruits that were attending the game. My son was one of them and his description of what was said was not at all like what you've described. But "perception is reality" and if that's how Alex perceived it then I can respect that. Not at all how some others (even ones who have committed elsewhere) perceived it, but that's their "reality" too! There have been other Valor parents that have been vocal about not appreciating the message the CU coaches are presenting, but luckily there are other options for these players. Hopefully they'll all find that perfect fit wherever they end up playing!

Like some have said, this situation is not for everyone, and yes it may not even be for most. A coach this weekend put it to us this way (I'm paraphrasing): "every player we recruit is a D1-level athlete, they're all "the guy" at their current programs. We're not just looking for "the guy", we're recruiting a mentality and mindset, too. We're looking for players that are prepared and want to do whatever it takes to make this program great...and it's more than just being a great athlete". That really has very little to do with Coach Embree being a dick like Kiffin or a great guy like Kelly, and a lot more to do with what kind of mentality and mindset the player actually has. But as many have said, the situation is not for everyone!

I can say with all confidence that every player we met this weekend (and many we met at games throughout the season) is exactly that kind of player. That goes for each of the "player hosts" and current team players we met, too. It's not a situation for everyone, but I'm positive these coaches are building a great team with the right ones.

 

[Burrito]

The situation you're talking about happened at Spring Game when Coach Embree met at halftime with all of the in-state recruits that were attending the game. My son was one of them and his description of what was said was not at all like what you've described. But "perception is reality" and if that's how Alex perceived it then I can respect that. Not at all how some others (even ones who have committed elsewhere) perceived it, but that's their "reality" too! There have been other Valor parents that have been vocal about not appreciating the message the CU coaches are presenting, but luckily there are other options for these players. Hopefully they'll all find that perfect fit wherever they end up playing!

Like some have said, this situation is not for everyone, and yes it may not even be for most. A coach this weekend put it to us this way: "every player we recruit is a D1-level athlete, they're all "the guy" at their current programs. We're not just looking for "the guy", we're recruiting a mentality and mindset, too. We're looking for players that are prepared and want to do whatever it takes to make this program great...and it's more than just being a great athlete". That really has very little to do with Coach Embree being a dick like Kiffin or a great guy like Kelly, and a lot more to do with what kind of mentality and mindset the player actually has. But as many have said, the situation is not for everyone!

I can say with all confidence that every player we met this weekend (and many we met at games throughout the season) is exactly that kind of player. That goes for each of the "player hosts" and current team players we met, too. It's not a situation for everyone, but I'm positive these coaches are building a great team with the right ones.

Well said B4L. Embriacs!

 

[tante]

The situation you're talking about happened at Spring Game when Coach Embree met at halftime with all of the in-state recruits that were attending the game. My son was one of them and his description of what was said was not at all like what you've described. But "perception is reality" and if that's how Alex perceived it then I can respect that. Not at all how some others (even ones who have committed elsewhere) perceived it, but that's their "reality" too! There have been other Valor parents that have been vocal about not appreciating the message the CU coaches are presenting, but luckily there are other options for these players. Hopefully they'll all find that perfect fit wherever they end up playing!

Like some have said, this situation is not for everyone, and yes it may not even be for most. A coach this weekend put it to us this way: "every player we recruit is a D1-level athlete, they're all "the guy" at their current programs. We're not just looking for "the guy", we're recruiting a mentality and mindset, too. We're looking for players that are prepared and want to do whatever it takes to make this program great...and it's more than just being a great athlete". That really has very little to do with Coach Embree being a dick like Kiffin or a great guy like Kelly, and a lot more to do with what kind of mentality and mindset the player actually has. But as many have said, the situation is not for everyone!

I can say with all confidence that every player we met this weekend (and many we met at games throughout the season) is exactly that kind of player. That goes for each of the "player hosts" and current team players we met, too. It's not a situation for everyone, but I'm positive these coaches are building a great team with the right ones.

this needs to be repped more

 

[Tractor]

The situation you're talking about happened at Spring Game when Coach Embree met at halftime with all of the in-state recruits that were attending the game. My son was one of them and his description of what was said was not at all like what you've described. But "perception is reality" and if that's how Alex perceived it then I can respect that. Not at all how some others (even ones who have committed elsewhere) perceived it, but that's their "reality" too! There have been other Valor parents that have been vocal about not appreciating the message the CU coaches are presenting, but luckily there are other options for these players. Hopefully they'll all find that perfect fit wherever they end up playing!

Like some have said, this situation is not for everyone, and yes it may not even be for most. A coach this weekend put it to us this way: "every player we recruit is a D1-level athlete, they're all "the guy" at their current programs. We're not just looking for "the guy", we're recruiting a mentality and mindset, too. We're looking for players that are prepared and want to do whatever it takes to make this program great...and it's more than just being a great athlete". That really has very little to do with Coach Embree being a dick like Kiffin or a great guy like Kelly, and a lot more to do with what kind of mentality and mindset the player actually has. But as many have said, the situation is not for everyone!

I can say with all confidence that every player we met this weekend (and many we met at games throughout the season) is exactly that kind of player. That goes for each of the "player hosts" and current team players we met, too. It's not a situation for everyone, but I'm positive these coaches are building a great team with the right ones.

this needs to be repped more

:nod:

 

[mattrob]

Hopefully they weren't all turned off by Embree's message. If so, I'm sure it was just a misunderstanding. I'm sure he never intended to downplay their abilities or that they'd be "scrubs" on another team. I'm sure the point he was making was that playing at CU during these rebuilding years gives them an opportunity to be part of something special. Conversely, winning at Oregon or Auburn wouldn't be as special. I guess we'll never really know why more in-state guys haven't committed this year (unless the coaches manage to flip some), but hopefully the trend won't continue. I'm hoping that two or three years from now CU will consistently get more than half the top ten in-state players.

I'm a big fan of JE and think that ultimately he will turn this thing around. If the kids were turned off by his message, I agree that it was likely a misunderstanding and probably a message delivered too passionately by an emotional coach taking his first shot at making a big impact on the recruiting trail as a HC. But that's something that JE then needs to be accountable for and work to improve in the future. Simply writing it off as these guys not being the right fits for CU football, or jersey chasing, isn't going to help this team attract talent in the coming years.

 

[MtnBuff]

The situation you're talking about happened at Spring Game when Coach Embree met at halftime with all of the in-state recruits that were attending the game. My son was one of them and his description of what was said was not at all like what you've described. But "perception is reality" and if that's how Alex perceived it then I can respect that. Not at all how some others (even ones who have committed elsewhere) perceived it, but that's their "reality" too! There have been other Valor parents that have been vocal about not appreciating the message the CU coaches are presenting, but luckily there are other options for these players. Hopefully they'll all find that perfect fit wherever they end up playing!

Like some have said, this situation is not for everyone, and yes it may not even be for most. A coach this weekend put it to us this way: "every player we recruit is a D1-level athlete, they're all "the guy" at their current programs. We're not just looking for "the guy", we're recruiting a mentality and mindset, too. We're looking for players that are prepared and want to do whatever it takes to make this program great...and it's more than just being a great athlete". That really has very little to do with Coach Embree being a dick like Kiffin or a great guy like Kelly, and a lot more to do with what kind of mentality and mindset the player actually has. But as many have said, the situation is not for everyone!

I can say with all confidence that every player we met this weekend (and many we met at games throughout the season) is exactly that kind of player. That goes for each of the "player hosts" and current team players we met, too. It's not a situation for everyone, but I'm positive these coaches are building a great team with the right ones.

Two things. I think that Embree has a mentality in mind that he wants, he understands that athletic ability is neccessary but attitude is critical, the kids who he seems to be going after and the work he is doing with the guys he has seems to be focused on CU football regaining this attitude.

Secondly, the recruiting game is a huge pack of trying to sell kids on a particular school, regardless of what is best for the kids or what the reality of the school really is. Your son is fortunate enough to have a dad who went through the process and who fought the battles for a career as a player as well as knowing a lot of guys who are involved currently as coaches or in other capacities. Being able to filter the truth from the crap.

Invariaby a lot of kids are disappointed with their choices, more often these are the kids who fell in love with an image or what they imagined would be their perfect setting without realizing the amount of work it would require and the fact that a whole bunch of other kids would be there at the same time all pursuing their own dreams and images.

 

[MCskid]

The situation you're talking about happened at Spring Game when Coach Embree met at halftime with all of the in-state recruits that were attending the game. My son was one of them and his description of what was said was not at all like what you've described. But "perception is reality" and if that's how Alex perceived it then I can respect that. Not at all how some others (even ones who have committed elsewhere) perceived it, but that's their "reality" too! There have been other Valor parents that have been vocal about not appreciating the message the CU coaches are presenting, but luckily there are other options for these players. Hopefully they'll all find that perfect fit wherever they end up playing!

Like some have said, this situation is not for everyone, and yes it may not even be for most. A coach this weekend put it to us this way: "every player we recruit is a D1-level athlete, they're all "the guy" at their current programs. We're not just looking for "the guy", we're recruiting a mentality and mindset, too. We're looking for players that are prepared and want to do whatever it takes to make this program great...and it's more than just being a great athlete". That really has very little to do with Coach Embree being a dick like Kiffin or a great guy like Kelly, and a lot more to do with what kind of mentality and mindset the player actually has. But as many have said, the situation is not for everyone!

I can say with all confidence that every player we met this weekend (and many we met at games throughout the season) is exactly that kind of player. That goes for each of the "player hosts" and current team players we met, too. It's not a situation for everyone, but I'm positive these coaches are building a great team with the right ones.

after reading this and the denver post articles about valor the past couple of days i think it is safe to say that very few valor kids will have the right attitude and mentality to play for the buffs.

 

[Highlander27]

The situation you're talking about happened at Spring Game when Coach Embree met at halftime with all of the in-state recruits that were attending the game. My son was one of them and his description of what was said was not at all like what you've described. But "perception is reality" and if that's how Alex perceived it then I can respect that. Not at all how some others (even ones who have committed elsewhere) perceived it, but that's their "reality" too! There have been other Valor parents that have been vocal about not appreciating the message the CU coaches are presenting, but luckily there are other options for these players. Hopefully they'll all find that perfect fit wherever they end up playing!

Like some have said, this situation is not for everyone, and yes it may not even be for most. A coach this weekend put it to us this way: "every player we recruit is a D1-level athlete, they're all "the guy" at their current programs. We're not just looking for "the guy", we're recruiting a mentality and mindset, too. We're looking for players that are prepared and want to do whatever it takes to make this program great...and it's more than just being a great athlete". That really has very little to do with Coach Embree being a dick like Kiffin or a great guy like Kelly, and a lot more to do with what kind of mentality and mindset the player actually has. But as many have said, the situation is not for everyone!

I can say with all confidence that every player we met this weekend (and many we met at games throughout the season) is exactly that kind of player. That goes for each of the "player hosts" and current team players we met, too. It's not a situation for everyone, but I'm positive these coaches are building a great team with the right ones.

You are the best! Obviously you've raised Clay to have the same pillars of strength and fortitude that you do. Bravo. Can't wait to see him leading the way to our next conference championship. :thumbsup:

 

[Highlander27]

The message was lost on those that didn't get it. You can go elsewhere and be a guy... or you can come here, build this back up and become a legend, representing this state, your home.

It was a challenge which wasn't well-received. These kids would have been primed for Hawkins to recruit them, he could have given each one a trophy upon leaving his speaking arrangement.

Screw weakness. Tired of weak minded mentality running this program. Embree is a breath of fresh air and for those that are disappointed by this turn of events, i have even more respect for him.

 

[Daaah]

Let's not rip on the recruits too much.

 

[Highlander27]

Nobody is ripping on recruits, more or less just confirming the validity of what we already knew.

 

[bigbang2]

I believe it is time for Valor to play 5 A football, lets see if they are good enough to play against Grandview, Creek, Mullen among others. I want Kozan to be a buff, and hopefully he recognizes the opportunity to get a good degree and play early at CU. ;But i must say i am disappointed, the attitude shown by Colorado kids this cycle is not good. Maybe the root cause of the fallout is the whole Brock Berguland recruiting situation last year. It is not a secret that i am not a big fan of Colorado HS football, the talent level is not that good, even the top players in the state not that inspiring,but i must say Kozan is one of the few players i like, i hope he becomes a buff, if he doesn't life goes on, CU will be great and he will regret it not signing with the Buffs.

 

[Buffs4Life]

I hope that didn't come across as ripping on anyone, certainly not my intention. I wasn't saying one was better than another, just passing on an observation about we've perceived the plan is at CU. Any of these players discussed has the opportunity to do well wherever they feel they'd best fit and that's truly what you wish for any of them! Kids who've worked this hard deserve the choice to go wherever they want, but that doesn't mean it's always going to be CU.

 

[Burrito]

I hope that didn't come across as ripping on anyone, certainly not my intention. I wasn't saying one was better than another, just passing on an observation about we've perceived the plan is at CU. Any of these players discussed has the opportunity to do well wherever they feel they'd best fit and that's truly what you wish for any of them! Kids who've worked this hard deserve the choice to go wherever they want, but that doesn't mean it's always going to be CU.

I'm pretty sensitive in the recruiting threads and in no way were your ripping on anyone. You're fine.

 

[bigbang2]

What you did is vanilla compared to what you can find in the Brock Berglund thread.

 

[Buffalo Brad]

If CU is still in consideration, I hope the Embo gets the chance to have a conversation with Alex and his parents in home. At that point, I would think as long as not too much damage has been done with perceptions, he will have the time and opportunity to lay out his vision and how Alex can be a part of a greater plan for the program. It will also give Alex the chance to ask the questions and concerns he has and let Jon address them. We shall see. If Kozan still wants to go elsewhere, all the best to him. Hopefully he will see something special brewing up at CU and want to be a part of it.

 

[30Something]

This is an interesting thread. Some seem to think that Embree didn't deliver his message well. Others seem to think that the recruits didn't interpret his message correctly. Really, it doesn't matter. What we have is a failure to communicate. If the player and the coach can't be on the same page with respect to a message as simple as this, they probably aren't a good fit for each other. These kids are going to be in a program for 4-5 years, and you need them to be on the same page every single day to be successful.

This is no different than any organization or relationship. I work for a Fortune 100 Company. I've had tremendously talented people working for me in the past that didn't work out, simply because we didn't communicate well together. It wasn't my fault and it certainly wasn't their fault. But at the end of the day the organization suffered, and we had to make a change. Sometimes you hash this out in an interview (or recruiting process), and you save yourself a lot of headaches. Sometimes you figure it out later, and you pay the price.

 

[Duff Man]

Sometimes kids do not connect with coaches. It happens.

 

[boydbuff]

Sometimes kids do not connect with coaches. It happens.

I agree but I can't imagine not connecting with Embree when I was 18 or even now at 30 something (ok I am 41!). Embree has so much passion for the Buffs and the game and he loves his players as if they were his kids. That is contagious and would draw most people to him. I agree with other posters here that if a player doesn't connect with Embree than he is not right for our program and it probably won't work out in the long run.

 

[Darth Snow]

I agree but I can't imagine not connecting with Embree when I was 18 or even now at 30 something (ok I am 41!). Embree has so much passion for the Buffs and the game and he loves his players as if they were his kids. That is contagious and would draw most people to him. I agree with other posters here that if a player doesn't connect with Embree than he is not right for our program and it probably won't work out in the long run.

Well, some people are different. Not everyone is like you. Shocking, I know. (That came out way dickish, didn't it?... Well, whatever, it always weirds me out when people, for some odd reason, think that everyone does or should think the same thing they do)

 

[96 Buff]

it always weirds me out when people, for some odd reason, think that everyone does or should think the same thing they do)

It obvously doesn't affect you too much, given the amount of time you spend on the polotics board.

 

[Darth Snow]

It obvously doesn't affect you too much, given the amount of time you spend on the polotics board.

:lol:. Not bad. I would argue these are two different things, of course.

 

[Highlander27]

I agree but I can't imagine not connecting with Embree when I was 18 or even now at 30 something (ok I am 41!). Embree has so much passion for the Buffs and the game and he loves his players as if they were his kids. That is contagious and would draw most people to him. I agree with other posters here that if a player doesn't connect with Embree than he is not right for our program and it probably won't work out in the long run.

Basically Embree threw down the gauntlet to defend their state to these *special* kids. It was a special invite, a call to action during desperate times. I'm not sure how the kids took offense. If the US was under fire, and the country called you as a citizen to defend her honor, you'd bow up, gather courage, bear arms and go to town on our enemies. These kids conversely decided they give two craps about defending their state, turned their back & walked away. Only two kids heeded the call for their state & major props to them for that.

Glad these other kids have options but they took the weak way out in response to this challenge and highlight it as a reason for not liking Embree... It's a joke. Better tho to find out too early vs. too late.

 

[Duff Man]

Basically Embree threw down the gauntlet to defend their state these kids. If the US was under fire, you'd bow up, gather courage, bear arms and go to town on our enemies. These kids conversely decided they give two craps about defending their state, turned their back & walked away.

Glad they have other options but they took the weak way out in response to this challenge. Better tho to find out too early vs. too late.

Or they feel like there is a better fit out of state for them. I doubt Kozan is looking at schools like LSU and OSU because he thinks it will be less intense there.