Kirven still mentioning CU among the schools he is considering. He won't get serious about the decision until after his senior season.
http://recruiting.scout.com/2/1116435.html
http://recruiting.scout.com/2/1116435.html
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'12 VA DT Korren Kirven (Signed to Alabama)
- Thread starter Duff Man
- Start date
I'd like to get Korren to the Buffs but I'm not sure I understand how this qualifies as the kind of recruiting battles we need to win. The ones I'd categorize as "need to win" are the ones in our main recruiting grounds (CO, AZ, TX, CA) against other Pac12 schools. Battles like this are nice to win not need to win.
That said, C'mon Korren, be a Buff!
Not arguing his offer list or his qualifications. I want to win this battle. I just don't qualify east coast player with an offer list from many national powers as a kind of battle we need to win. Need to win are the top players in CO. Need to win are solid players out of CA, TX and AZ.
Not sure if serious.
I can try to put it another way. If we don't get Korren, I would not hold it against the coaching staff. I'd be disappointed but I would not think it is a failure on their part. Not getting the top players in CO, not getting more highly recruited players out of our areas of focus, those are failures that I think are unacceptable.
I would agree with this sentiment. Obviously it would be great to land Kirven, but I would not consider it a failure by the staff if it does not happen.
The "must get" players are guys like Justin Solis. California recruit from a good program, has several BCS/Pac-12 offers, and he plays at a position of need. The guys like Solis are players we have been whiffing on for most of the last decade. Losing battles against national powers for an east coast blue chip will not prevent us from getting where we want to go, but losing battle after battle against Pac-12 foes for CO, CA, and AZ kids probably will.
Now that I'm not on my phone let me expand. It is vitally important to win recruiting battles in CA, TX, and CO, but geography is overrated. Kirven obviously has interest in us, and has offers from elite schools (Alabama, Penn State, Stanford, Tennessee, etc.). If a kid has interest in CU, we need to go after him hard, especially a kid like Kirven.
Why not? if they have interest in CU, the staff should pursue. The east coast is a recruiting hot bed and we have connections back east. We need elite players and I don't really care where they come from whether it's California, Florida, Louisiana, or Virginia.
Geography is actually as about important as it gets in recruiting. Of course you go after some players elsewhere if they show interest, but the whole "I don't care where we get players from" argument is a non-starter. That is the dart board strategy that Dan Hawkins and his staff used.
The present spin is that Hawkins and his staff just could not recruit because they were all losers, but that ignores much of what was going on over the past five years. We were offering players from Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky, etc. Does that really make any sense to waste resources in those states?
If the Buffs are to get back to being conference championship contenders, it will be because we are getting the vast majority of our classes from CO, CA, and TX, along with a smattering of other states.
The present spin is that Hawkins and his staff just could not recruit because they were all losers, but that ignores much of what was going on over the past five years. We were offering players from Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky, etc. Does that really make any sense to waste resources in those states?
If the Buffs are to get back to being conference championship contenders, it will be because we are getting the vast majority of our classes from CO, CA, and TX, along with a smattering of other states.
If they show no interest, yes but so far, we've drawn interest from the east coast so I don't see it as a waste.
I am not disagreeing here about selectively targeting a handful of east coast targets every year. However, I am much more concerned on how the staff does in Colorado and California than I will ever be in getting an occasional blue chip from Virginia.
somebody
Well-Known Member
Pretty sure Embree said he'd do core recruiting plus others that were out of our core area who a) expressed an interest in CU and b) were worth the effort. Kirven obviously meets these criteria. Given that, the argument about need is to me a pointless one. This kid should be a target because he meets the criteria. That is very different from the shotgun approach of the previous staff.
Like I said it's vitally important that we win battles in CA and CO, I just don't see this as a shotgun strategy as you described so long as we're offering and putting the time in for recruits who have genuine interest in CU.
You may view it as pointless, but I think it is an important discussion to have when measuring success come February. Pretty sure that is what NW Buff was trying to get at in the first place.
I was addressing your comments, nothing about how the current staff is approaching recruiting on the east coast.
I wouldn't say that Kirven himself is an absolute must although we could definately use him.
We do however have to win some battles like this one, getting some kids who are are considered talented enough that they have offers from other higher profile schools from major conferences. Not only do we need these kinds of kids to turn around the talent gap but also to give credibility on the recruiting trail. Kids pay attention to who a schools other recruits are and who wanted them.
We do however have to win some battles like this one, getting some kids who are are considered talented enough that they have offers from other higher profile schools from major conferences. Not only do we need these kinds of kids to turn around the talent gap but also to give credibility on the recruiting trail. Kids pay attention to who a schools other recruits are and who wanted them.
Highlander27
Well-Known Member
I might be the only one but I think for us to build an identity, getting these bigger, stronger linemen is a must. Are there really any great OL/DL's in the conference besides maybe Stanford's OL? I don't think so. And that's where the Pac 10/12 has always fallen behind the other leagues. They never sustained any form of dominant linemen play, ESPECIALLY on the DL. USC under Caroll used to have it and that's how he parlayed his team into so many different championship seasons.
I think CU's quickest ascension to championship football is building up and fortifying areas that are weak amongst most other schools. If that means we have to hang out in the SouthEast/mid-atlantic to get defensive linemen, whatever.
Look at Oregon... that team has pretty much had it's way with everybody the past two seasons. Who and what has stopped them? SEC's teams that are physically man-handling them on the front lines. I don't think it's unreasonable to think of a CU program, which has traditionally been in a fierce conference in regards to trench play while historically more than holding it's own on that front, could rebuild those foundations and really have an advantage over most of the schools in this conference. I think Embree understands this and is actively recruiting the size we need. That is the hope at least.
I think CU's quickest ascension to championship football is building up and fortifying areas that are weak amongst most other schools. If that means we have to hang out in the SouthEast/mid-atlantic to get defensive linemen, whatever.
Look at Oregon... that team has pretty much had it's way with everybody the past two seasons. Who and what has stopped them? SEC's teams that are physically man-handling them on the front lines. I don't think it's unreasonable to think of a CU program, which has traditionally been in a fierce conference in regards to trench play while historically more than holding it's own on that front, could rebuild those foundations and really have an advantage over most of the schools in this conference. I think Embree understands this and is actively recruiting the size we need. That is the hope at least.
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I think the quickest way for us to get back to competitiveness in the Pac-12 is to recruit well in two areas: QB and DL. We seem to have addressed QB well, now we need to finish off the DL class and then get another good crop of them next year too.
The guy I am really hoping we can get a visit from is Mike Pennel. He would immediately upgrade the DT situation and give us that big body we need. Kirven is a longshot (no mention in the rivals article today).
The guy I am really hoping we can get a visit from is Mike Pennel. He would immediately upgrade the DT situation and give us that big body we need. Kirven is a longshot (no mention in the rivals article today).
We still need players at end too.
He also mentioned us in the Scout article though yesterday so FWIW.
Thank you. I can't read the thread on my own.
Don't mention it. Always glad to help out.
CVilleBuff
Well-Known Member
Agree completely. Crossing my fingers - he's potentially more open to going out of the state/region than nearly any Virginia kid - but it would take a minor miracle for a 2-11 CU team to go into VA and get a kid of this caliber.
Highlander27
Well-Known Member
Interesting thought. Definitely agree with a few thoughts here, especially QB. That has been ear-marked since day 1. We also know that recruiting TE's and the state of Texas will be huge. In regards to speed, especially on the DB side they seem to have ear-marked some bigger athletes who either play or can convert to DB. They aren't so concerned with where guys are rated now (or so it seems) but really want guys they can build from the ground up which have the tools to succeed and will perform in around two years. It's been our MO from Brown since he's been here. Moten and Deji came in under same MO and we appear to be going down those same paths.
Our bread and butter has to be Cal and Texas. After that, nothing wrong with developing relationships in places like NJ, La, etc. Mac had an in with Detroit and Lousianna. Its up to the coaches to make contacts early and then pick and choose their battles. A school like CU needs to be able to go national. But, for sure, the focus has to be Cal and Texas. Oh, and Colorado.