Because he’s going to be on campus in 2019 and a RS counts toward the scholarship limit for the 2019 cycle. The Blue Shirt counts his scholarship toward the 2020 class limit, even though he’s on scholarship now.
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'19 JC TE Luke Stillwell (SIGNED to COLORADO)
- Thread starter WasianCU
- Start date
Difference is that he counts against next years class. Red shirt would count against this years class or a prior class.
DrunkPanda
Well-Known Member
I wish i knew, Avril. I wish i knew......Avril has a message for you.
Welcome to the BnG family!
You might read some of a thread before posting questions in it!
No. He can't count against a prior class no matter the color of his shirt. He'd have had to be an enrollee in January for that option, if there were spots in 2018 under the 25 available, that is.
My understanding is that a non qualifier doesn't count against the 25. That's how schools sign 30 guys.
Seems like a spot should have just opened up.
Seems like a spot should have just opened up.
BuffLuke80
Well-Known Member
Yes sir, welcome!!
Unleash Hell
Well-Known Member
Wow, after Taylor commits, our TE situation has gone from crap to stacked in a matter of months!
Unlike a redshirt, a blueshirt is unavailable to play his first season.
brockbuff
Well-Known Member
So if we were to be lucky enough to get Kole Taylor we’d have 3 2020 tight end recruits?
Stillwell will be a redshirt sophomore in 2020.
BuffCaliBoi
Member
wrong... 247 latest article says he is available for this season and Stillwell said he is coming in to compete for the starting job.
DrunkPanda
Well-Known Member
I was just coming here to say that... I just read that article and he said that he doesn't have to sit out a season
Interesting, thanks for the heads up on the new 247 article. Nobody seems to know anything around here, dammit!
Some folks have posted the info, but there still seems to be confusion so let's make sure we get it right.
"Blue Shirt" -- if a prospect has not been recruited (general rule from NCAA is that means he hasn't taken any official visits), a school may sign him to join the team after fall camp even if that school has already signed the maximum 25 players that year. The player's scholarship counts against the 25 limit for the following year's class and the player is eligible to play immediately.
Considering that Stillwell is fairly recent to the TE position, has not worked in the CU offensive system, and won't have a chance to do so or to develop chemistry with his teammates before the season starts -- I would expect that he will redshirt. Even if he develops quickly or we have an injury, remember that the new rules implemented last year would allow him to play in the final 4 games and still count 2019 as a redshirt season. The redshirt could be important for class balance at the TE position because it would move Stillwell a class behind Russell and Poplawski and we wouldn't have 3 TEs graduating after 2021.
"Blue Shirt" -- if a prospect has not been recruited (general rule from NCAA is that means he hasn't taken any official visits), a school may sign him to join the team after fall camp even if that school has already signed the maximum 25 players that year. The player's scholarship counts against the 25 limit for the following year's class and the player is eligible to play immediately.
Considering that Stillwell is fairly recent to the TE position, has not worked in the CU offensive system, and won't have a chance to do so or to develop chemistry with his teammates before the season starts -- I would expect that he will redshirt. Even if he develops quickly or we have an injury, remember that the new rules implemented last year would allow him to play in the final 4 games and still count 2019 as a redshirt season. The redshirt could be important for class balance at the TE position because it would move Stillwell a class behind Russell and Poplawski and we wouldn't have 3 TEs graduating after 2021.
BuffStampede
Club Member
Trufflesauce
Well-Known Member
The article said he’ll arrive July 28th, and quoted him saying he’ll participate in fall camp.
Yeah, nobody here seems to truly know how this stuff works. lol
I think this should replace "for the fans, by the fans" as the allbuffs motto.
I think buffnik might have said "fall camp" when he meant preseason camp (i.e. August preseason). I don't believe there's a restriction though either way, but definitely not after rosters expand (fall).
Here are the relevant rules for who counts as what, feel free to move to another thread if necessary:
15.02.3 Counter. A “counter” is an individual who is receiving institutional financial aid that is countable against the aid limitations in a sport.
15.02.3.1 Initial Counter. [FBS/FCS] An “initial counter” is a counter who is receiving countable financial aid in a sport for the first time. (See Bylaw 15.5.6.3 in football for instances in which the institution is permitted to defer the counting of such financial aid until the following academic year.)
15.02.9 Recruited Student-Athlete. For purposes of Bylaw 15, a recruited student-athlete is a studentathlete who, as a prospective student-athlete: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11, Revised: 4/25/18)
(a) Was provided an official visit to the institution’s campus;
(b) Had an arranged, in-person, off-campus encounter with a member of the institution’s coaching staff (including a coach’s arranged, in-person, off-campus encounter with the prospective student-athlete or the prospective student-athlete’s family members); or
(c) Was issued a National Letter of Intent or a written offer of athletically related financial aid by the institution for a regular academic term.
15.5.1 Counters. A student-athlete shall be a counter and included in the maximum awards limitations set forth in this bylaw under the following conditions: (Revised: 6/10/04, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(a) Athletics Aid. A student-athlete who receives financial aid based in any degree on athletics ability shall become a counter for the year during which the student-athlete receives the financial aid;
15.5.6.1 Bowl Subdivision Football. [FBS] There shall be an annual limit of 25 on the number of initial counters (per Bylaw 15.02.3.1) and an annual limit of 85 on the total number of counters (including initial counters) in football at each institution. (Revised: 1/10/91 effective 8/1/92, 12/15/06)
15.5.6.3 Initial Counters—Football (Also see Bylaw 15.02.3.1). [FBS/FCS]
15.5.6.3.1 Recruited Student-Athlete Entering in Fall Term, Aided in First Year. [FBS/FCS] A student-athlete recruited (see Bylaw 15.02.9) by the awarding institution who enters in the fall term and receives institutional financial aid (based in any degree on athletics ability) during the first academic year of residence shall be an initial counter for that year in football. Therefore, such aid shall not be awarded if the institution has reached its limit on the number of initial counters prior to the award of institutional financial aid to the student-athlete. (Revised: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
15.5.6.3.2 Recruited Student-Athlete Entering After Fall Term, Aided in First Year. [FBS/FCS] A student-athlete recruited (per Bylaw 15.02.9) by the awarding institution who enters after the first term of the academic year and immediately receives institutional financial aid (based in any degree on athletics ability) shall be an initial counter for either the current academic year (if the institution’s annual limit has not been reached) or the next academic year. The student-athlete shall be included in the institution’s total counter limit during the academic year in which the aid was first received. (Revised: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
15.5.6.3.3 Nonrecruited Student-Athlete Receiving Institutional Financial Aid During First Year. [FBS/FCS] A student-athlete not recruited (per Bylaw 15.02.9) by the institution who receives institutional financial aid (based in any degree on athletics ability) after beginning football practice during the first year of enrollment becomes a counter but need not be counted as an initial counter until the next academic year if the institution has reached its initial limit for the year in question. However, the student-athlete shall be considered in the total counter limit for the academic year in which the aid was first received. (Revised: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11, 4/25/18 effective 8/1/18)
15.5.6.3.4 Midyear Replacement. [FBS/FCS] A counter who graduates at midyear or who graduates during the previous academic year (including summer) may be replaced by an initial counter, who shall be counted against the initial limit either for the year in which the aid is awarded (if the institution’s annual limit has not been reached) or for the following academic year, or by a student-athlete who was an initial counter in a previous academic year and is returning to the institution after time spent on active duty in the armed services or on an official religious mission. In bowl subdivision football, an institution may use the midyear replacement exception only if it previously has provided financial aid during that academic year to the maximum number of overall counters (85 total counters). In championship subdivision football, an institution may use the midyear replacement exception only if it previously has provided financial aid during that academic year that equals the maximum number of overall equivalencies or overall counters. (Revised: 4/20/99 effective 8/1/99, 6/8/99, 4/26/01 effective 8/1/01, 8/2/05, 12/15/06, 1/14/08 effective 8/1/08, 4/2/10, 1/15/11)
15.5.6.3.5 Aid First Awarded After First Year. [FBS/FCS] A student-athlete who has been in residence at the certifying institution for at least one academic year may receive athletically related financial aid for the first time without such aid counting as an initial award, provided the aid falls within the overall grant limitation. (Adopted: 1/11/89, Revised: 1/10/90 effective 8/1/90, 4/25/18 effective 8/1/18)
15.5.6.3.6 Recruited Student-Athlete, Varsity Competition. [FBS/FCS] In accordance with Bylaw 15.5.1.1, a recruited student-athlete (per Bylaw 15.02.9) receiving institutional financial aid having been granted without regard in any degree to athletics ability becomes an initial counter in the first academic year in which the student-athlete competes on the varsity level. (See Bylaw 15.5.1.1.1.) (Revised: 10/27/05 effective 8/1/06, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11, 1/18/14 effective 8/1/14)
15.5.6.3.7 Returning Two-Year Transfer. [FBS/FCS] A student-athlete who previously was an initial counter and who transferred to a two-year college shall not be an initial counter upon return to the original institution.
15.5.6.3.8 Delayed Initial Counter Who Does Not Return to School. [FBS/FCS] A student-athlete who receives countable financial aid but whose status as an initial counter under this bylaw is delayed until the following academic year shall be counted against the initial limit the following academic year, regardless of whether the student-athlete reports for participation or attends the institution in that academic year.
15.5.6.3.9 Academic Study Abroad Replacement. [FBS/FCS] A student-athlete who already has enrolled in the institution and is a member of the team may replace a counter who is participating in a fulltime study abroad program pursuant to Bylaw 12.8.1.3 for the term or terms of participation without being counted as an initial counter. (Adopted: 1/19/17 effective 8/1/17)
15.02.3 Counter. A “counter” is an individual who is receiving institutional financial aid that is countable against the aid limitations in a sport.
15.02.3.1 Initial Counter. [FBS/FCS] An “initial counter” is a counter who is receiving countable financial aid in a sport for the first time. (See Bylaw 15.5.6.3 in football for instances in which the institution is permitted to defer the counting of such financial aid until the following academic year.)
15.02.9 Recruited Student-Athlete. For purposes of Bylaw 15, a recruited student-athlete is a studentathlete who, as a prospective student-athlete: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11, Revised: 4/25/18)
(a) Was provided an official visit to the institution’s campus;
(b) Had an arranged, in-person, off-campus encounter with a member of the institution’s coaching staff (including a coach’s arranged, in-person, off-campus encounter with the prospective student-athlete or the prospective student-athlete’s family members); or
(c) Was issued a National Letter of Intent or a written offer of athletically related financial aid by the institution for a regular academic term.
15.5.1 Counters. A student-athlete shall be a counter and included in the maximum awards limitations set forth in this bylaw under the following conditions: (Revised: 6/10/04, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(a) Athletics Aid. A student-athlete who receives financial aid based in any degree on athletics ability shall become a counter for the year during which the student-athlete receives the financial aid;
15.5.6.1 Bowl Subdivision Football. [FBS] There shall be an annual limit of 25 on the number of initial counters (per Bylaw 15.02.3.1) and an annual limit of 85 on the total number of counters (including initial counters) in football at each institution. (Revised: 1/10/91 effective 8/1/92, 12/15/06)
15.5.6.3 Initial Counters—Football (Also see Bylaw 15.02.3.1). [FBS/FCS]
15.5.6.3.1 Recruited Student-Athlete Entering in Fall Term, Aided in First Year. [FBS/FCS] A student-athlete recruited (see Bylaw 15.02.9) by the awarding institution who enters in the fall term and receives institutional financial aid (based in any degree on athletics ability) during the first academic year of residence shall be an initial counter for that year in football. Therefore, such aid shall not be awarded if the institution has reached its limit on the number of initial counters prior to the award of institutional financial aid to the student-athlete. (Revised: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
15.5.6.3.2 Recruited Student-Athlete Entering After Fall Term, Aided in First Year. [FBS/FCS] A student-athlete recruited (per Bylaw 15.02.9) by the awarding institution who enters after the first term of the academic year and immediately receives institutional financial aid (based in any degree on athletics ability) shall be an initial counter for either the current academic year (if the institution’s annual limit has not been reached) or the next academic year. The student-athlete shall be included in the institution’s total counter limit during the academic year in which the aid was first received. (Revised: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
15.5.6.3.3 Nonrecruited Student-Athlete Receiving Institutional Financial Aid During First Year. [FBS/FCS] A student-athlete not recruited (per Bylaw 15.02.9) by the institution who receives institutional financial aid (based in any degree on athletics ability) after beginning football practice during the first year of enrollment becomes a counter but need not be counted as an initial counter until the next academic year if the institution has reached its initial limit for the year in question. However, the student-athlete shall be considered in the total counter limit for the academic year in which the aid was first received. (Revised: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11, 4/25/18 effective 8/1/18)
15.5.6.3.4 Midyear Replacement. [FBS/FCS] A counter who graduates at midyear or who graduates during the previous academic year (including summer) may be replaced by an initial counter, who shall be counted against the initial limit either for the year in which the aid is awarded (if the institution’s annual limit has not been reached) or for the following academic year, or by a student-athlete who was an initial counter in a previous academic year and is returning to the institution after time spent on active duty in the armed services or on an official religious mission. In bowl subdivision football, an institution may use the midyear replacement exception only if it previously has provided financial aid during that academic year to the maximum number of overall counters (85 total counters). In championship subdivision football, an institution may use the midyear replacement exception only if it previously has provided financial aid during that academic year that equals the maximum number of overall equivalencies or overall counters. (Revised: 4/20/99 effective 8/1/99, 6/8/99, 4/26/01 effective 8/1/01, 8/2/05, 12/15/06, 1/14/08 effective 8/1/08, 4/2/10, 1/15/11)
15.5.6.3.5 Aid First Awarded After First Year. [FBS/FCS] A student-athlete who has been in residence at the certifying institution for at least one academic year may receive athletically related financial aid for the first time without such aid counting as an initial award, provided the aid falls within the overall grant limitation. (Adopted: 1/11/89, Revised: 1/10/90 effective 8/1/90, 4/25/18 effective 8/1/18)
15.5.6.3.6 Recruited Student-Athlete, Varsity Competition. [FBS/FCS] In accordance with Bylaw 15.5.1.1, a recruited student-athlete (per Bylaw 15.02.9) receiving institutional financial aid having been granted without regard in any degree to athletics ability becomes an initial counter in the first academic year in which the student-athlete competes on the varsity level. (See Bylaw 15.5.1.1.1.) (Revised: 10/27/05 effective 8/1/06, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11, 1/18/14 effective 8/1/14)
15.5.6.3.7 Returning Two-Year Transfer. [FBS/FCS] A student-athlete who previously was an initial counter and who transferred to a two-year college shall not be an initial counter upon return to the original institution.
15.5.6.3.8 Delayed Initial Counter Who Does Not Return to School. [FBS/FCS] A student-athlete who receives countable financial aid but whose status as an initial counter under this bylaw is delayed until the following academic year shall be counted against the initial limit the following academic year, regardless of whether the student-athlete reports for participation or attends the institution in that academic year.
15.5.6.3.9 Academic Study Abroad Replacement. [FBS/FCS] A student-athlete who already has enrolled in the institution and is a member of the team may replace a counter who is participating in a fulltime study abroad program pursuant to Bylaw 12.8.1.3 for the term or terms of participation without being counted as an initial counter. (Adopted: 1/19/17 effective 8/1/17)
So in this situation if he didn't meet the definition of 15.02.9 (none of a, b, or c can apply), then he is a Nonrecruited student-athlete. For counting purposes 15.5.6.3.3 would apply. This basically says he counts against the 85, but doesn't count against the 25 until the next cycle, so in essence he is a 2020 initial counter and a 2019 total counter. So the 2020 class could only have 24 initial counters now. Unless they change his status do to non-qualifiers.
