2012 revenue numbers out

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We rank 49th in AD revenue with $57,098,868 and expenses at $54,257,246. I wonder how much basketball contributed.

bcs schools behind us are Iowa St, Ole Miss, Mizzou, Cinci, USF, Washington St, and Utah (also Boise St)

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/schools/finances/

 

[Highlander]

Local paper article this morning stating the football program will be reporting a sizable loss. $2M off ticket sales, $2M to payout old coaching staff, higher coaching salaries for HCMM and his group, plus lower revenue due to Directv not being on board yet.

That type of pre-announcement typically means its going to bad - really bad.

 

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Revenue

Year	Ticket Sales	Contributions	Rights Licensing	Student Fees	School Funds	Other	Total Revenue
2012	$13,826,171​	$12,512,545​	$10,915,345​	$1,554,720​	$14,360,676​	$3,929,411​	$57,098,868​
2011	$13,515,287​	$13,537,986​	$15,975,108​	$1,561,472​	$13,956,677​	$2,376,723​	$60,923,253​
2010	$13,438,344​	$11,024,787​	$14,973,276​	$1,579,971​	$5,749,619​	$2,755,520​	$49,521,517​
2009	$14,196,471​	$10,278,509​	$15,208,197​	$1,555,065​	$5,759,695​	$2,861,756​	$49,859,693​
2008	$14,807,635​	$12,674,561​	$14,292,494​	$1,516,559​	$6,320,000​	$3,020,647​	$52,631,896​
2007	$11,043,754​	$10,609,323​	$11,973,390​	$1,509,076​	$4,755,638​	$2,463,476​	$42,354,657​
2006	$11,516,892​	$8,099,789​	$13,880,972​	$1,499,487​	$9,853,931​	$2,020,725​	$46,871,796​
2005	$10,830,764​	$1,325,064​	$13,086,642​	$1,520,071​	$1,642,497​	$7,446,753​	$35,851,791 ​

Expenses:

Year	Coaching Staff	Scholarships	Buildings/Grounds	Other	Total Expenses
2012	$18,092,036​	$8,055,731​	$10,250,626​	$17,858,853​	$54,257,246​
2011	$17,332,974​	$7,393,107​	$8,107,708​	$26,352,831​	$59,186,620​
2010	$15,544,548​	$6,935,990​	$8,541,310​	$17,569,067​	$48,590,915​
2009	$16,569,900​	$6,452,189​	$9,201,000​	$15,984,232​	$48,207,321​
2008	$15,513,330​	$6,351,417​	$10,220,984​	$16,282,524​	$48,368,255​
2007	$12,717,169​	$6,144,571​	$8,003,419​	$12,838,249​	$39,703,408​
2006	$12,404,254​	$6,165,776​	$8,748,203​	$18,413,309​	$45,731,542​
2005	$11,025,404​	$5,551,814​	$7,089,864​	$12,947,632​	$36,614,714​

 

[Gold]

Thanks for posting. Moral of the story: losing = half empty stadiums = coaches getting fired.

 

[absinthe]

I wonder how much basketball contributed.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/schools/finances/

as do I, the local paper mentioned a 2mm football drop-off, i wonder if that was covered by basketball as the numbers you posted look flat too me.

 

[SuperiorBuff]

Thanks for posting. Moral of the story: losing = loss of donor and licensing money = coaches getting fired.

fify

 

[BlackNGold]

It would be interesting to know what school funds mean. Is that the money that CUAD is borrowing from the Foundation? Right now CUAD is $22 Million in the hole. Basketball will not make any money at the moment (and probably loses a lot). A major source of revenue for Basketball is the NCAA tournament distribution to the conferences, CU was getting about $2.5 million from the old Big 12 for Basketball with most of that being Tourney money (formula is really complex). CU received very little money from the PAC last year and was given a gift of $6 million from the School and the Foundation to cover the conference transition shortfall. ($9.5 million from the old Big 12 and only $3.5 million from the PAC 12 last year.)

 

[Quattro]

It would be interesting to know what school funds mean. Is that the money that CUAD is borrowing from the Foundation? Right now CUAD is $22 Million in the hole. Basketball will not make any money at the moment (and probably loses a lot). A major source of revenue for Basketball is the NCAA tournament distribution to the conferences, CU was getting about $2.5 million from the old Big 12 for Basketball with most of that being Tourney money (formula is really complex). CU received very little money from the PAC last year and was given a gift of $6 million from the School and the Foundation to cover the conference transition shortfall. ($9.5 million from the old Big 12 and only $3.5 million from the PAC 12 last year.)

Well men's bball was profitable (again) and with the success of the women's I don't see a loss of money for basketball, or if there is its not much. The biggest is coming from the $2.5M loss in football ticket sales revenue b

 

[BlackNGold]

Well men's bball was profitable (again) and with the success of the women's I don't see a loss of money for basketball, or if there is its not much. The biggest is coming from the $2.5M loss in football ticket sales revenue b

CU lost money on Basketball - womens has never made a profit. The problem is no tourney share for basketball. Just because you want to claim it made a profit does not make it a fact. CU ticket revenues for Basketball is very small....

 

[absinthe]

It would be interesting to know what school funds mean. Is that the money that CUAD is borrowing from the Foundation? Right now CUAD is $22 Million in the hole. Basketball will not make any money at the moment (and probably loses a lot). A major source of revenue for Basketball is the NCAA tournament distribution to the conferences, CU was getting about $2.5 million from the old Big 12 for Basketball with most of that being Tourney money (formula is really complex). CU received very little money from the PAC last year and was given a gift of $6 million from the School and the Foundation to cover the conference transition shortfall. ($9.5 million from the old Big 12 and only $3.5 million from the PAC 12 last year.)

Your numbers don't quite match with my understanding of the basketball financing situation, and frankly even though JG and I have put a ton of time into figuring it out the number are clear as mud. There appears to be some sort of revenue diversion going on from our basketball numbers (perhaps to cover the practice facility). The men's program itself is profitable, you are correct that women are not, they are a huge cost that the men shoulder, add to that they also shoulder a portion of costs not just from their team but all sports that utilize Coors events and the practice facility. That said with our season tickets completely sold out last year and Coors drawing an average of 10k we were very much profitable last season.

The tourney money formula while some what complex is understandable, it is a partial rev-share that you can break down into "game units" where one game played by 1 team equals a game unit, paid as an annuity over time. So if CU played Cal in the first round the conference would earn 2 game units. While it was especially bad for last year for the pac-12 it has returned to roughly average this year, being out earned by only: The A-10, Big east and Big-10. This season only two conferences to have a chance of distributing 2.5 million to their schools for 2013 (in which the game unit value was the highest ever) they are the Big East and and Big-10. It is possible for 2002 & 2003 that the big 12 earned the kind of money you are referencing as average but given how much things have ramped up in the past 5 years I think that is highly unlikely.

Here are some good reads:
http://winthropintelligence.com/201...all-tournament-this-years-unit-payouts-after/
http://businessofcollegesports.com/2012/03/02/how-much-money-do-conferences-earn-from-march-madness/

the annuity approach of the payouts:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissm...-trip-to-the-final-four-is-worth-9-5-million/

Given their relative parity over the past 15 years (2 titles and 2 runner ups vs 1&2 for the big 12) and a combined total of 7 final fours respectively the conference earning powers should be similar with the annuities factored in.

 

[Quattro]

CU lost money on Basketball - womens has never made a profit. The problem is no tourney share for basketball. Just because you want to claim it made a profit does not make it a fact. CU ticket revenues for Basketball is very small....

I know the women's team didn't turn a profit, women's sports never do (or seldom do) but the women mitigated that loss some with ticket sales revenue (we were #2 in PAC 12 attendance iirc) and the tournament appearance. Men's was profitable and with all time high attendance and season ticket numbers so I have a tough time seeing the basketball program as a whole turn a profit.

Speaking of the tournament for women, since we held a round in Boulder did the AD get any revenue sharing from it?

 

[BlackNGold]

I know the women's team didn't turn a profit, women's sports never do (or seldom do) but the women mitigated that loss some with ticket sales revenue (we were #2 in PAC 12 attendance iirc) and the tournament appearance. Men's was profitable and with all time high attendance and season ticket numbers so I have a tough time seeing the basketball program as a whole turn a profit.

Speaking of the tournament for women, since we held a round in Boulder did the AD get any revenue sharing from it?

CU season tickets are about $15 per game at the high end of the scale and $4 per game at the low end of the scale. Attendance averaged about 10,400 per game. How many of those were students who basically get in for $35 for the whole season $2 per game. I would guess the average Ticket revenue for a CU home game is about $100,000 Max. so about $1.5 million - less than one FB game of revenue. CU's Men's Basketball expenses are about $4 million per year. Without the Tourney distribution of $2.8 million CU comes up about $2.5 million short.

CU does not get paid directly for the tournament appearance. NCAA pays the conference for tourney shares earned over a 5 year time period - CU is getting none of that from the PAC 12 and lost out on that from the Big 12.

 

[Gold]

CU lost money on Basketball - womens has never made a profit. The problem is no tourney share for basketball. Just because you want to claim it made a profit does not make it a fact. CU ticket revenues for Basketball is very small....

On the bold, can you explain further? Are you saying (1) modest profits on mens bball were offset by significant losses on womens bball hence an overall bottomline loss on cu bball, or (2) there were no profits on mens bball and both programs produced a loss?

 

[Quattro]

Edit: Using real numbers, one sec.

 

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We still get revenue from concessions, advertisements etc

 

[Quattro]

Numbers are all ****ed

 

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I couldn't get an exact number on the women's ticket prices so I just divided the men's ticket prices by two.

MENS			WOMENS
Location	Public Price		Location	Public Price
Lower Center Court	$ 450.00		Lower Center Court	$ 225.00
Middle Center Court	$ 250.00		Middle Center Court	$ 125.00
Corners	$ 120.00		Corners	$ 60.00
Upper Bleacher Areas	$ 85.00		Upper Bleacher Areas	$ 42.50
General Admission	$ 60.00		General Admission	$ 30.00
Average Price	$ 193.00		Average Price	$ 96.50
Average Attendance	8900.00		Average Attendance	3418.00
Ticket Revenue/Game	$ 1,717,700.00		Ticket Revenue/Game	$ 329,837.00
Ticket Revenue/Season	$ 25,765,500.00		Ticket Revenue/Season	$ 5,937,066.00
Combined Ticket Revenue	$ 31,702,566.00

There's no way

 

[Quattro]

I'm having issues

 

[wsp4820]

I couldn't get an exact number on the women's ticket prices so I just divided the men's ticket prices by two.

MENS WOMENS
Location Public Price Location Public Price
Lower Center Court $450.00 Lower Center Court $225.00
Middle Center Court $250.00 Middle Center Court $125.00
Corners $120.00 Corners $60.00
Upper Bleacher Areas $85.00 Upper Bleacher Areas $42.50
General Admission $60.00 General Admission $30.00
Average Price $193.00 Average Price $96.50
Average Attendance 8900.00 Average Attendance 3418.00
Ticket Revenue/Game $1,717,700.00 Ticket Revenue/Game $329,837.00
Ticket Revenue/Season $25,765,500.00 Ticket Revenue/Season $6,266,903.00

Combined Ticket Revenue $32,032,403.00


*Note: I did not factor in student attendance for the women's numbers because not many students went to games.

Holy **** dude. I hope you're not about to graduate.

 

[Quattro]

Holy **** dude. I hope you're not about to graduate.

I'm trying to find the issues in the numbers I got but am having trouble...obviously :lol:. Those numbers would put us at a Texas level :lol:

 

[wsp4820]

I'm trying to find the issues in the numbers I got but am having trouble...obviously :lol:. Those numbers would put us at a Texas level :lol:

I'll give you a hint. Recheck how many games you get to attend for the single-game ticket price you're using. :nod:

 

[Quattro]

I'll give you a hint. Recheck how many games you get to attend for the single-game ticket price you're using. :nod:

Yeah....there was a huge price difference :lol:

MENS WOMENS Area Price Area Price Courtside $ 35.00 Floor Seats $ 30.00 Mid-Courtside $ 20.00 Courtside $ 15.00 Corners $ 15.00 General Admission $ 8.00 Reserved Bleachers $ 15.00 Students $ - General Admission $ 10.00 - - Students - - - Average Price $ 19.00 Average Price $ 17.67 Average Attendance 8900.00 Average Attendance 3418 Ticket Revenue/Game $ 169,100.00 Ticket Revenue/Game $ 60,384.67 Ticket Revenue/Season $ 2,536,500.00 Ticket Revenue/Season $ 1,086,924.00 Combined Revenue $ 3,623,424.00

 

[absinthe]

Yeah....there was a huge price difference :lol:

you also dropped off the 100 or courtside seats that go for 2200 a season.

In fairness to Qatty though BnG's numbers are also suspect.

The Low end cost is indeed $4 a game but those GA seats represent very little of the seating in Coors Events and are often the last seats sold.

Next cheapest are the reserved bleachers at about $6 a game although those two areas only roughly equal the mid-court seat numbers which cost 16.60 a game. CU sold every last-seat for ever game in these sections:

Floor seats at $150 a game
Courtside seats at $30 a game
Mid court seats at $17 a game

CU tickets cost more effective between 7-30 a game and not the $4 to $15 a game BnG quoted which over the course of a season and over 6700 season tickets makes quite a difference in the calculations.

 

[Quattro]

you also dropped off the 100 or courtside seats that go for 2200 a season.

I was just going off of these two pages so you're right.

http://www.cubuffs.com/fls/600/tickets/mbb_season_prices_map.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=600
http://www.cubuffs.com/fls/600/tickets/wbb_season_prices_map.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=600

 

[tante]

Remember over 6k season tixs were sold.

 

[Quattro]

Remember over 6k season tixs were sold.

I really wish there was a detailed sheet with a breakdown of ticket sales by section, season ticket sales by section, etc.

But looking at that very simple analysis, it seems likely that basketball made a profit.

 

[absinthe]

Never mind.

now the numbers look even funkier.

 

[wsp4820]

Ok so clearly i don't want to work today, I pulled some numbers total basketball attendance in 2010 tads first season and the last year of the big-12 revenue was 3.933 million dollars on 117,349 total attendance taking BnG's conference distribution number (which i find suspect on the high side) of 2.8 million that leaves us with 2.1 million ticket and ticket dependent revenue for 2010. Some prices in Coors events are up since 2010 and seat licenses are now a regular even for about 2,000 of us at CE. Combine that with a roughly 33% increase in attendance from 2010 to this season and you'd expect a ticket and ticket dependent revenue number this season of around 3 million. Including only ticket dependent revenue from 2012 you'd expect to CU at a 500-900K loss for basketball. That however does not include donations, the current conf distribution for tournaments, significant increases in revenue from leerfield etc.

Wouldn't that be 1.1 million for ticket/ticket dependent revenue in 2010 (assuming the 2.8 million conference distribution)?

 

[absinthe]

Wouldn't that be 1.1 million for ticket/ticket dependent revenue in 2010 (assuming the 2.8 million conference distribution)?

Right it would which doesn't jive with any set of anything I've ever looked at, or been told. Due to these sheer year over year swings, and areas where costs should have changed but didnt JG and I came to the conclusion something funky goes on with how they report and we gave up trying to figure this out a few weeks ago.

I should have just left it at that.

 

[CUFan]

I think it's safe to assume this type of financial performance is directly attributable to gross underinvestment for a decade or more (speaking to football here since it is the money maker). Why are "student fees" (and what are they) flat since 2005? The cost of nearly everything has skyrocketed since 2005, yet these fees are flat?