Nothing like a good stars don't/do matter post. Anyone else want to chime in? I think this is fertile ground for a good, and frankly, long overdue debate.
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2015: Recruiting News, Notes & Official Visitors
- Thread starter Buffnik
- Start date
Nothing like a good stars don't/do matter post. Anyone else want to chime in? I think this is fertile ground for a good, and frankly, long overdue debate.
Duff is gonna love this. @Undefeated, dude, you are late to the party. Let me summarize the discussion for you, which includes conclusions based on empirical evidence and data studies, not anecdotes:
It's better to have highly rated classes. Stars matter. Exceptions are not the rule. To argue otherwise is stupid, unless you have very specific reasons for specific recruits.
No mention of five guys?
Yes, as a general rule, across time, the higher rated classes succeed due to the law of averages. My point wasn't to say stars are completely meaningless. My point was simply that coaches look at the tape, first and foremost. If you think MM and his staff are visiting Rivals or ESPN to check out how many stars a kid has and basing their recruiting off that, you're sorely mistaken. Those publications are for fans like us.
There's an OK article from Denver Post that addresses this issue with quotes from Mac.
http://www.denverpost.com/colleges/...e-macintyre-recruits-star-rating-little-value
My assertions come from a little experience in the area, however.
I tried.
Some staffs have gotten into trouble by recruiting off of Rivals/Scout databases. Those head coaches don't last long.
However, the recruiting services learn what players are being recruited and also see some film. It's a pretty accurate snapshot of who the most in-demand players are every cycle. Just about everyone agrees, also, that the deeper you go past the Top 250 guys the less meaningful the ratings from the recruiting services become.
Last, much like NFL draft boards from media folks, there's an inherent weakness because only the coaches doing the scouting get that vital "last 20%" of the information on the player. All that stuff that's found out in the vetting process by talking to the player, his family, his coaches, and others in his life is often the difference between who the film says should be offered and who actually gets offered.
MacIntyre is being a little coy there. He knows full well most of the blue chippers he is talking about end up being the highly rated guys.
I don't care about star ratings, I do care about offer list.
Yes there is the occassional kid who slips through but those guys are very rare. These kids are being seen by schools and if they are any good schools are after them.
If a kid doesn't have offers from other P5 schools that usually means that other P5 coaches don't think he can play. One or two may miss but they don't all miss and the stupid ones aren't around long enough to miss very often.
That said in general star ratings tend to follow offer list. If a kid is getting offers from multiple top 25 programs the services are going to look at him and figure out how to give him his stars.
Yes there is the occassional kid who slips through but those guys are very rare. These kids are being seen by schools and if they are any good schools are after them.
If a kid doesn't have offers from other P5 schools that usually means that other P5 coaches don't think he can play. One or two may miss but they don't all miss and the stupid ones aren't around long enough to miss very often.
That said in general star ratings tend to follow offer list. If a kid is getting offers from multiple top 25 programs the services are going to look at him and figure out how to give him his stars.
I agree 100%.
Look, @Darth Snow , I never said recruit ratings are meaningless; I said coaches don't base their recruiting off of them. I understand lower rated guys turning into big time players is the exception, not the rule, so we can stop with the condescension. However, as a CU fan, you should know more than anyone that the best players for this program over the past decade have been lower rated guys, while many of the "blue chippers" we've signed have flamed out.
Btw, how'd our top 25 rated class of 2008 turn out? The juggernaut class that included Darrell Scott, Jon Major, Lynn Katoa, Max Tuioti-Mariner, Ray Polk, Ryan Deehan, and Bryce Givens.
You aren't getting it. I wasn't being condescending in my first post about this. Sorry for being so afterwards. But I was just trying to let you know that this argument has been had, ad nauseum, on this site before. And that having it again is probably going to drive almost everyone insane. So we probably shouldn't. And although you acknowledge the facts of the case, you seem determined to have this debate. So let's skip to the end to short circuit this.
Stars aren't the be all end all. Point acknowledged.
And making the point that our coaches don't base their recruiting off of the stars isn't something anyone is arguing except you.
Final point: You dissed some damn good buffs with your last sentence by including them with the washouts. They weren't world beaters, but you are actually hurting your "point" there.
Heard, understood, acknowledged.
FLounda
Think Positive and life will be Positive.
Or police actions during routine stops?
AllStarBuffs
Member
Ray Polk is one hell of an athlete and a stand up individual
disagree. Really, really, REALLY need some good WR talent. We have lots of WR's, not lots of good WR's.
Agreed, completely
We have a Biletnikoff Semi-Finalist, a young star in Shay Fields, another potential star in Bryce Bobo and two other guys (Donovan Lee and Lee Walker [originally an AZ commit]) that have shown flashes. We were 44th in total offense and 19th in passing offense in the country last year. We'll be fine on that side of the ball, at least in regards to that position.
Coaches said they were going to focus primarily on Defense in the off season so maybe their recruiting attention has shifted toward that side. #thingswellneverknow
Spruce is good. Fields has decent potential, but is small. Otherwise, you are counting the potential of the rest of the guys as a "sure thing" which it isn't.
Bobo is inconsistent and a head case until otherwise proven. The other two guys are small and limited. Spruce is gone either this year or next. Yea, we need some WR talent and soon. Once Spruce is gone, we go from a team with average WR talent to a team with little WR talent.
I truly believe Fields is going to be an absolute stud next year with defenses focusing on stopping Spruce. However, I do agree that my statement is based on potential from 3 of those guys, but this kid's hype is purely based on potential, too.
Except he's a recruit, and they are kids on the team - we know more about them and their ceiling. Our WR situation is not fine, is all I'm saying. Would take a best case scenario for us to be set there after Spruce leaves. We need a lot more talent, and fast. It was a limiting factor this year.
Well, in this case, I don't actually consider Texas Tech all that relevant either.
Then they need to turn to JUCO because we aren't going to all of the sudden garner the commitments of a bevy of 4-5* WRs. CU recruiting is what it is at this point. Life after Spruce could be tough, but they have a bunch of young guys who got experience early, that they're banking on developing into solid players. Spruce wasn't an elite prospect coming out either. Give these kids time.