I think this is an excellent question. Most P5 schools have sufficient leverage they shouldn't be scheduling home-and-homes with non-P5 schools (I say the same thing about VT scheduling ECU in home-and-homes, and now ODU too)
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2023 Colorado Football Schedule & Future Schedules
- Thread starter Buffnik
- Start date
2-for-1 agreements seem to be going away. I don't think that's as do-able as it once was. Really comes down to whether the G5 opponent can afford to pay what the P5 team's normal rate is for playing an away game. I would assume that CSU was willing to pay a lot to get CU to Fort Collins.
ahoelsken
Well-Known Member
My bad. I misunderstood your point, but let's talk about that one for a second, because I disagree with it. Here's what everybody in the league has going as far as home and homes with other P5's that fbschedules.com has posted. I've excluded Stanford and USC's games with Notre Dame and any games anybody in the league will play with BYU:
Arizona-Texas Tech, Mississippi State, Kansas State, Virginia Tech, and Nebraska
ASU-Michigan State, Oklahoma State, Mississippi State, Texas A&M, LSU
Cal-Will finish up home and homes with North Carolina and Ole Miss in the next two years. TCU, Auburn
Colorado-TCU, Northwestern, 4 games with Nebraska, Georgia Tech, Kansas State
Oregon-Ohio State, Texas Tech, Baylor, Michigan State
Oregon State-Oklahoma State, Texas Tech
Stanford-4 games with Vanderbilt, TCU, they owe K-State a game in Manhattan, Boston College
UCLA-Oklahoma, Michigan, LSU, Georgia, Auburn, Wisconsin
USC-return game with Texas this year
Utah-Baylor
Washington-Michigan, Ohio State
WSU-Kansas, K-State, Wisconsin
Oregon State and Washington State will always have some trouble scheduling because of where they're located. Utah faces political pressure to play BYU (No, that isn't the same as our situation with CSU because the Power 5 leagues who have the one P5 opponent a year rule consider BYU a power 5 opponent).
ahoelsken
Well-Known Member
CSU is paying us a million bucks to play up there in 2020, and I would think the figure would be the same in 2024. I think they're more of a regional thing now. South Florida got Florida to play in Tampa once for two games at the Swamp. BYU will do variants of two for ones (referring to their Arizona series in particular-I think thats a game in Phoenix, a game in Tucson, and a game in Vegas when the Raiders' stadium gets built) with anybody in our league. Wyoming has done them with Nebraska and I think Texas as well in the past.
fair point, and I love the data-supported argument. However, I didn't do the math, but that looks to average out at <1 OOC P5 game per season per Pac 12 opponent. I don't believe any other P5 conference (maybe the XII?) averages that few non-conf P5 games -- hence my reason for believing that Pac12 teams have difficulty getting home-and-homes with other P5 schools.
ahoelsken
Well-Known Member
Depends on the situation. Some Group of 5's have advantages-Boise State is enough of a name to where they can get anyone to go play on the smurf turf. Playing at Hawaii allows for the extra game. UCF, USF, Houston, and San Diego State offer chances to play in big recruiting areas. Our fanbase craves names on the OOC after playing CSU, UMass, and other lightweights for the better part of the last decade. We don't need to be humoring CSU with home and homes. If Florida got a second home date with South Florida to play once in Tampa, there's no reason we can't get a second game in Boulder for the trip to FoCo in 2024.
ahoelsken
Well-Known Member
That I think is normal for the most part (things happen-Arkansas and Oregon this year, and us last year.....Michigan backed out of a deal with Arkansas to play Notre Dame, somebody-Texas A&M? backed out of a contract with Oregon, and I think we had a two for one with San Jose State that we backed out of when MM took over here)-especially with 3 of the 5 power 5 leagues playing 9 league games a year.
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you might be right. I follow the ACC and Pac most closely -- ACC teams definitely play an average of > 1 OOC P5 game/year (not counting ND).
The B1G made a rule that each team has to play >= 1 P5 team each year, but they allow BYU, ND and the military academies to count.
SEC is probably close but they schedule a lot of their big non-conf games at neutral sites. no clue about the XII.
The way I look at it is that if you're in a conference that only plays 8 conference games then you have to schedule 1 P5 opponent just to get onto a level playing field with conferences that play 9 games.
Then we compare schedules to see how many P5s are scheduled with those other 3 games.
In other words, Alabama has to schedule 2 P5 opponents to equal USC scheduling 1 P5 opponent in the non-conference.
And if the media & bowl championship committee aren't looking at it like I am then there is absolutely no good reason to play 9 conference games.
Deleted member 807
Guest
From memory - visitors that took football seriously enough to fill Folsom
Nebraska (hard as hell to get the red out of Folsom)
CSU (flagship status envy - set record attendance at Folsom)
Old B8-B12 buddies
A&M / UT /OU (rabid fans that travel in hoards to check our Boulder)
West Virginia (the ‘Neers Thur night game was electric)
Georgia (mascot envy)
I imagine any of the FB crazy SEC schools would pack Folsom (no doubt about LSU, Bama, Tenn in addition to GA)
I’d expect B1G blue bloods UM and tOSU plus Wisconsin, PSU, and Iowa, to draw >5K-10K
Any of these above I’d expect would put more butts in seats than P12 rivals. Seems like ASU, USC and Oregon being the most enthusiastic traveling fans in our conference.
Nebraska (hard as hell to get the red out of Folsom)
CSU (flagship status envy - set record attendance at Folsom)
Old B8-B12 buddies
A&M / UT /OU (rabid fans that travel in hoards to check our Boulder)
West Virginia (the ‘Neers Thur night game was electric)
Georgia (mascot envy)
I imagine any of the FB crazy SEC schools would pack Folsom (no doubt about LSU, Bama, Tenn in addition to GA)
I’d expect B1G blue bloods UM and tOSU plus Wisconsin, PSU, and Iowa, to draw >5K-10K
Any of these above I’d expect would put more butts in seats than P12 rivals. Seems like ASU, USC and Oregon being the most enthusiastic traveling fans in our conference.
More big 10 teams please. First on my list would be playing Nebraska every year but Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Illinois would be cool too.
I would love to play more big 12 teams, especially Texas and OU.
We also definitely need more east coast games for alums out there. Virginia would be at the top of my list just because the towns are so similar and I think fans would love to travel there too.
I would stay away from the sec if I was RG. Those programs don’t want to travel and will be tough to negotiate with.
I would love to play more big 12 teams, especially Texas and OU.
We also definitely need more east coast games for alums out there. Virginia would be at the top of my list just because the towns are so similar and I think fans would love to travel there too.
I would stay away from the sec if I was RG. Those programs don’t want to travel and will be tough to negotiate with.
ahoelsken
Well-Known Member
If the SEC plays eight league games, they should use that rule but say traditional rivals don't count. Look at the trash some of those teams are playing:
Alabama-Louisville (in Orlando-aren't they 30 point favorites?), The Citadel, Arkansas State, and UL Lafayette
Georgia-Austin Peay, UMass, UL Lafayette, and Georgia Tech
South Carolina-Coastal Carolina, Marshall, Clemson, and Chattanooga
ahoelsken
Well-Known Member
We'll break that CSU record when the Nubs come here next year.
Deleted member 807
Guest
Hopefully. But Folsom’s capacity went down after the renovation.
The record setting crowd vs CSU was over the stated capacity of Folsom at the time.
It would take some serious Excel work to rigorously analyze the impact of OOC scheduling coupled with 8/9 game conference schedules and the resulting effect on the team's seasons. However, looking at the number of teams from 8 vs 9 game conferences that have made the playoffs since it's inception, I think its fair to say the selection committee does not view this matter the same as you -- of the 16 teams that made the playoffs, 11 came from conferences that played 8 regular season conference games (69%).
Since I'm not doing those hours of number crunching, conference RPI for the "playoff era" also gives us a rough idea of whether there's a trend, and there is no immediately apparent correlation between number of conference games and RPI ranking (data below).
Agree with your last line with one exception -- the reason may be logistical in that it may truly be more difficult to get teams to travel out West and the Pac sticking with 9 game conference schedule is a mitigation against East coast teams unwillingness to do so.
2017
9 game conferences: 2,3,6
8 game conferences: 1,4
2016
9 game conferences: 1,2,5
8 game conferences: 3,4
2015
9 game conferences: 3,5
8 game conferences: 1,2,6
2014
9 game conferences: 2,3
8 game conferences: 1,4,5
you're calling Louisville, Georgia Tech and Clemson "trash"?!?!?
ok, it was a fun discussion for a while. peace.
ahoelsken
Well-Known Member
Depends on the school-I'm 32 next week, and I think Florida has played out of conference games outside the state of Florida......twice in my lifetime? LSU will travel. They've gone to Washington, and they're going to Texas next year or the year after. Auburn has signed two deals with UCLA and Cal for home and homes in the last few days. I'd love to play UVA. That'd be a blast.
Texas? Not sure that makes sense. I don't see us getting a better deal from them than the one Maryland got-One game in Austin for one game at FedEx Field. OU would be fun again. We're playing Minnesota in the next few years, but I'd play Iowa and Wisconsin again for sure!
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Here's where the RPI argument becomes bull****: RPI factors in your losses and the losses of your opponents to downgrade your score on the index. If a conference plays an extra game, that's 0.5 extra losses for every single team in the conference every single year (on average). Built in. How often do you see a P5 conference have a losing .500 record or worse in non-conference games? I believe the answer to that is "never".
ahoelsken
Well-Known Member
Louisville is garbage this year. They might be 6-6. Did you read the part of my post where I said traditional rivals (Clemson would fall in that category for South Carolina, and GT for UGA) shouldn't count toward fulfilling the one P5 a year requirement if you're in the ACC or SEC? No reason why Georgia, South Carolina, and Alabama need three of those games in one OOC schedule.
you make a good point, but the counter to that is that there are non-P5 teams who perform better than many P5 teams. Having Boise or UCF on your schedule helps RPI more than having Oregon State or
I did, but I don't see how that is relevant to your claim those teams are trash.
Also, I understand that USC-East and Clemson are traditional rivals, but I'm now following your reasoning why shouldn't South Carolina count as a P5 opponent for purposes of completing Clemson's schedule under ACC requirements.
ahoelsken
Well-Known Member
I misspoke in a couple respects. One, Georgia, South Carolina, and Alabama all play trash OOC schedules IMO. Zero disrespect to the three P5 opponents they'll play, but saying Louisville is a mismatch for Alabama this year is probably an easy argument to make. Two, my main point was meant to be that SEC scheduling sucks (the ACC is a different deal, and having Notre Dame as a quasi conference game helps in that regard), and they'll often use "Hey, we do play team X every year!" as an excuse to fill the rest of their OOC with cupcakes. Both UGA and South Carolina play two group of 5 opponents and an FCS opponent. Let's not forget Florida-who is playing two FCS teams, CSU, and Florida State this year. They're another really absurd example of how bad the scheduling is in the SEC-they've played two out of conference games outside of the state of Florida in the last 25 years, and they have one game against a power 5 out of conference opponent not named Florida State between now and 2027, and that's a neutral site game against Miami in I believe Orlando next year.
2023 and 2024 schedules already have two P5 teams in non-conference, so can see the rational in scheduling CSU. I don't have an issue with playing CSU every few years as someone who has grown up in the state. Ultimately, college football is about money and this game is a pay day for CU whether we want to believe it or not. Will be interesting to see what the money figures come out, but I would imagine CU is getting the better end with both games.
Barnett dropped that nugget during the game last week
Someone mentioned it's not for like 12 years or something? If so, how dumb
Love it!
Yea Gabe DeArmond went on to say that the games would be around 2030
ahoelsken
Well-Known Member
That's probably what they were trying for-NU/OU are playing on the 50th anniversary of the Game of the Century.