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3/15/ Friday Scrimmage Report
- Thread starter Hugegroove
- Start date
HS stats and highlights are meaningless. Remember that Jones was the HS player of the year in NJ as a senior with lots of big plays.
If you are counting on the backs to create their own openings then Jones is not your guy, he isn't elusive and doesn't break a lot of tackles. I do know that get him in space and he can fly. As Rick James says the challenge is to figure out how to get him the ball in the kind of space that he can use that speed. As to the others if they can show that they are more effective then they should get the playing time.
Jones gets a lot of negative because he is associated with both Hawk and JE but I think he is a more talented guy than he has had the chance to show. Unfortunately his talents aren't the kind that show while playing on a bad team.
If you are counting on the backs to create their own openings then Jones is not your guy, he isn't elusive and doesn't break a lot of tackles. I do know that get him in space and he can fly. As Rick James says the challenge is to figure out how to get him the ball in the kind of space that he can use that speed. As to the others if they can show that they are more effective then they should get the playing time.
Jones gets a lot of negative because he is associated with both Hawk and JE but I think he is a more talented guy than he has had the chance to show. Unfortunately his talents aren't the kind that show while playing on a bad team.
Because of the difficulty in bringing him down he forces teams to play more guys in the box. When Powell is running well it should open up the deep middle by forcing the LBs and safeties to play up. This is significant "if" the offense can and does take advantage.
Problem for Powell is that his running style means he takes a lot of punishment as he gives it out. The keep him healthy and effective we are going to have to divide the carries with a number of backs.
It's not about Jones being associated with Hawk and JE. He has been outperformed by other backs. Both in 2011 and 2012. For someone who is arguing against using high school performance, you seem to give guys like Wood and Jones passes based on perceived talent.
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
Um, I would expect any decent back at this level to pick up decent gains with open holes to run through. Running through gaping holes isn't exactly a superior skill.
I don't agree. Powell does not force other teams to bring guys into the box. Our weak Receiving corp, Quarterback play, and play calling/execution allow all teams to bring guys into the box, independent of who is playing RB for the buffs.
Does he take more punishment because he gets hit a time or two more than another guy? Maybe, but I don't know that a lot of great RBs have that style. Great RB's sense the hole, hit the hole, and usually don't take a direct blow from the tackler(s). They have a just enough juke to make guys miss or at least not cream them. Powell gets hit pretty hard because there is no juke and no deception. I'm not sure that's a good thing.
I'm going to stick by my guns here and back Ford as a guy who deserves meaningful carries until proven otherwise. I do honestly think the RBs will get a honest, and fair appraisal and we'll see the best guys out there. Will be fun to see who that is. And I'll predict they looker better coached (by a TE coach at that).
I just don't think 2011 and 2012 are accurate representations. I also don't think he has been outperformed by the other backs (other than Powell being head and shoulders our most effective ballcarrier when he was healthy.)
I'm not saying that he should be the starter or even be in the mix. All I am saying is that he has shown me as much or more than I have seen from the others when given a place to run in. I look at Wood in a similar way but with even less to actually judge him on. I know that Wood has a load of physical talent, I also know that he has been inconsistent, innacurate, and reportedly didn't do a great job of mastering the offense.
With Wood I only hope that he gets a chance and comes through and "gets it." As it stands, so far he hasn't and I expect that Dillon, Hirsch, or hopefully not Webb will be the starter.
Big difference between decent gains and being able to take it to the house, Jones has that. For a team that lacks speed and gamebreaking ability I would hope that the few guys we have who do have that would at least get a chance.
Didn't Powell take one to the house early in the season?
So your only criteria for an explosive back is that he can take it to the house? Loads of players are fast, but to be explosive you need to have excellent vision, hit the holes, etc. Jones doesn't have that.
And yeah, tante, Pow Pow had a nice 60+ yard (think it was 60+) run against Sac State.
More rumbled than flew. Don't expect to see him make a lot of long openfield runs.
Tini, you are arguing like an idiot because you don't like Jones. Go back and read the thread. You don't know what Jones has and nobody else does either, you also assume that the others do have all those things.
Again so you can read it easier.
The decision needs to be made based on who is most effective on the field. Not on what a bunch of internet posters think based on past experience in a disfunctional system.
If M2 decides based on what he sees in practice or in games that Jones should never carry the ball again then I'm good with that. The decision should be made based on performance, not on how much fans like or don't like him. That fact is that he is on the team because he does have certain talents, just like every other back on the team. Those talents could provide us with some elements that the others don't have, that is up to the coaches to decide.
No, I have no issue with Jones, I just don't think he's the most explosive player and his play on the field backs that up. Being an explosive back isn't just about having great speed. You started your argument by saying it's what you do on the field. Well, other than one time when has he shown to be an explosive back?
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
I'll rephrase, I would expect any decent back at this level to be able to take it to the house with a big hole to run through. If your crew of backs are being run down from behind by LBs then you have a hell of a problem.
Pardon me if 1 big run against a terrible Wazzu team doesn't completely convince me on Jones just yet.
2011 he had multiple runs where his speed was a positive factor in the play. I am still waiting to see the first long run where speed was a factor from the others. The Abron run almost qualifies but he doesn't have the same top end speed as Jones. Maybe his other factors make up for and exceed that but so far we haven't seen it. Let's let the coaches decide. My only point is that I wouldn't write off Jones for this year.
A better arguement here might be to ask if we don't have a hell of a problem at RB. EB was supposed to be the RB guru and great recruiter and maybe the biggest indictment of his era is that we don't have a single back that we can identify as a clear #1 back. Even Powell who I like didn't come in as a RB, he came in as a FB and was moved.
I'm not completely convinced either other than convinced that our RB talent isn't good enough as it stands right now no matter who plays.
mountain is making some terrible arguments here.
White_Rabbit
Well-Known Member
Mtn watches different games than I do.
Buffenuf
massive tool
Hitting the holes fast often gets a RB nailed in the hole, ala Speedy: 2 yd.. run; 2 yd run: -1 yd, then maybe a 7 yd. run. The style now is to allow the blocking to develop and cut back against the flow. Stewart was very mediocre at that since he was too impatient. Ford has the sense to allow the blockers to set up where he'll run and the balance to take a glancing side blow from a LB. (Ford's past problem was with the staff, not his speed.)
You took that way out of context. Just wow. I'm not talking about a RB just plowing his way into a hole, I'm talking about a RB being patient for the hole to open up and then blowing through it, ala vision. Thought that was implied. On top of that you also need to be very agile to shake defenders at the second level.
And cutting back really won't work often enough to warrant it unless you have elite speed, which none of our RB's have.
If by "hitting the hole fast" you mean Speedy needing to dodge oncoming linemen miliseconds after the handoff just to get back to the LOS or make a short gain, then yes, you are correct, Speedy was very impatient.
you remember speedy rather differently than I do.
I also gotta take issue with Mtn's implication that Tony Jones has not been given enough chances. Nine games of 8+ carries over two seasons says differently. Outside of the big run against Wazzu and an effective game against Utah in 2011, there has been nothing from his play that screams #1 back.
SuperiorBuff
Well-Known Member
Jones should be movet to a slot receiver where he might have a chance to get the ball in space. I would like to see his days in the backfield end.
Gold
Well-Known Member
Tony is obviously fast. The one thing in his defense is EB was a run through the tackles type of coach. I don't know this for a fact, but I can't imagine him being pleased with RB's bouncing it outside, which is likely where Tony excels.
Powell had to make EB proud. A FR who can pound it between the tackles. Abron received a lot of garbage time where bouncing it outside wasn't going to set any coach off because the game was out of hand. But don't get me wrong, I really liked his game and think he's going to turn out to be a very good RB.
As for Tony, let's see if a different staff knows how to utilize his speed in meaningful game time situations.
Powell had to make EB proud. A FR who can pound it between the tackles. Abron received a lot of garbage time where bouncing it outside wasn't going to set any coach off because the game was out of hand. But don't get me wrong, I really liked his game and think he's going to turn out to be a very good RB.
As for Tony, let's see if a different staff knows how to utilize his speed in meaningful game time situations.