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A quick look at attrition in the 2011 and 2012 classes

Duff Man

Duff Man

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Embree's coaching staff signed 51 total players to letters of intent in the 2011 and 2012 recruiting classes. As spring practices wind down, it is a bit staggering to see how many players never made it, are either already gone, or may be soon out the door:

2011
Paulay Asiata
Brent Burnette
Jermane Clark
Stevie Dorman (not gone, but buried on the depth chart)
Rashad Hall
Will Harlos
Sherard Harrington
Kyle Washington (playing future very much in doubt)

2012
Terrence Crowder (not gone, but buried on the depth chart)
Vincent Hobbs (future at CU very much in doubt)
Kisima Jagne
Davien Payne (future at CU very much in doubt)
Peyton Williams
De'Jon Wilson (not currently practicing with the team)

That is 14 players total that either will never make an impact at CU or the odds are they will be gone before they reach upperclassman eligibility. This does not even take into account other players that will just never develop to make an impact on the field. Transition classes are always tricky, but the 2013 class needs to beat those odds or we are never going to break the cycle.
 
Attrition probably happens with coaching changes. And, man, have we had some coaching changes.
 
And it wouldn't be unexpected to see some additional names added to that list before next fall. We will have some additional individuals who will not meet academic standards, have issues with conduct, not like the new staff, decide that they have no future as Buffs, etc.

Coming off the disaster that was Hawk including a dead recruiting year when everyone knew he was likely to be fired the following year (and arguably two of those) this kind of attrition fits right in to a team that was lucky to win one game last year and will be one of the worst teams in the country this year. M2 is going to have a huge task in front of him.

And the B4Ler's wanted another year of JE!! How blind are they.
 
It doesn't help us right now, but I like MikeMacs recruiting focus much better. Hopefully we will fill these open spots with better talent anyway.
 
CUFan said:
It doesn't help us right now, but I like MikeMacs recruiting focus much better. Hopefully we will fill these open spots with better talent anyway.
Click to expand...

We've said that about every single coach.
 
This is a lot of roster turnover. Too many academic & health risks. Embree probably shouldn't have emulated the Hawkins approach so much.
 
I've posted the retention and bust rates of Hawk and Embree a few months ago. Haven't updated the spreadsheet, but Hawk's were especially brutal, he had over a 50% bust rate on some of his classes. I'll see if I can dig it up on Monday and post.
 
MtnBuff said:
And it wouldn't be unexpected to see some additional names added to that list before next fall. We will have some additional individuals who will not meet academic standards, have issues with conduct, not like the new staff, decide that they have no future as Buffs, etc.

Coming off the disaster that was Hawk including a dead recruiting year when everyone knew he was likely to be fired the following year (and arguably two of those) this kind of attrition fits right in to a team that was lucky to win one game last year and will be one of the worst teams in the country this year. M2 is going to have a huge task in front of him.

And the B4Ler's wanted another year of JE!! How blind are they.
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MTNBUFF: I think you need to find a new tag for blind Embree supporters. You know as well as I do that the B4L mission and purpose preceeds that mess and will hopefully live beyond this connection. It isn't fair to those who still identify with the group. My point is, let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.
 
Wyo Buff said:
MTNBUFF: I think you need to find a new tag for blind Embree supporters. You know as well as I do that the B4L mission and purpose preceeds that mess and will hopefully live beyond this connection. It isn't fair to those who still identify with the group. My point is, let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.
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I will grant you that even at the time it happened there were likely more B4Lers in favor of firing than we heard from, certain guys had a convienient soapbox and thus were the most clearly heard from. I would also guess that in the time since it happened more guys took some time to look at it separate from the emotion and are realizing that despite JE's connections to the program and to many of them it had to happen.

That said many pushed hard to hire him and were the most vocal in opposition to the firing when it happened.
 
Can't add Jagne and Williams to the Attrition numbers. They didn't take a snap with the team. Guys like Harrington, Harlos, Washington have health problems. It is insensitive to blame Embo for guys getting hurt. And attrition is part of College football. I expect the same thing to happen to Coach Mac.
 
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bigbang2 said:
Can't add Jagne and Williams to the Attrition numbers. They didn't take a snap with the team. Guys like Harrington, Harlos, Washington have health problems. It is insensitive to blame Embo for guys getting hurt. And attrition is part of the College football. I expect the same thing to happen to Coach Mac.
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This is why BB gets laughed at. JE signed them to LOIs that could have gone to others. Injuries are a part of college football but the overall record for the JE era is abysmal. Combine this with the number of guys still left that simply aren't good enough to play and your defense of Embo is laughable.

If M2 has the same record of futility he will deserve to be fired just like JE did. So far things are looking like we will get some notable improvement already.
 
MtnBuff said:
This is why BB gets laughed at. JE signed them to LOIs that could have gone to others. Injuries are a part of college football but the overall record for the JE era is abysmal. Combine this with the number of guys still left that simply aren't good enough to play and your defense of Embo is laughable.

If M2 has the same record of futility he will deserve to be fired just like JE did. So far things are looking like we will get some notable improvement already.
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This is why you are a fool. Compare the Attrition numbers to other schools. JE record and Hawkins attrition numbers is actually better than the national average.


This info is from Aug 2009 so more attrition surely occurred since:

Team Total signees Not with team Percentage
AUBURN.... 84.................35................41.6
MSU......... 84................ 35.............. 41.6
Ole Miss.... 83.................30.............. 36.1
Arkansas... 79.................28.............. 35.4
UK .............79.................27................ 34.1
LSU............78................ 26.................33.3
USC............78.................26.............. ..33.3
Tennessee...72................ 24................33.3
Alabama..... 80.................23................28.75
Georgia.......75.................17............... ..22.6
Florida...... 76.................16.................21
Vanderbilt....60................10................ .16.6

http://www.hawkeyenation.com/forum/...e-football-attrition-rates-other-schools.html
 
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bigbang2 said:
This is why you are a fool. Compare the Attrition numbers to other schools. JE record and Hawkins attrition numbers is actually better than the national average.


This info is from Aug 2009 so more attrition surely occurred since:

Team Total signees Not with team Percentage
AUBURN.... 84.................35................41.6
MSU......... 84................ 35.............. 41.6
Ole Miss.... 83.................30.............. 36.1
Arkansas... 79.................28.............. 35.4
UK .............79.................27................ 34.1
LSU............78................ 26.................33.3
USC............78.................26.............. ..33.3
Tennessee...72................ 24................33.3
Alabama..... 80.................23................28.75
Georgia.......75.................17............... ..22.6
Florida...... 76.................16.................21
Vanderbilt....60................10................ .16.6

http://www.hawkeyenation.com/forum/...e-football-attrition-rates-other-schools.html
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Yes, but we aren't over signing by 10 or 15 kids a class like most of the $EC. This is an apples and oranges comparison.
 
Of course injuries are a part of football. I do not blame Embree for everything that has gone wrong on that list, but he most certainly does not get a pass for Peyton Williams and Kisima Jagne. He signed them both and for a myriad of reasons. including Embree's management of roster numbers, they were grayshirted. What happens with grayshirted players? You run the risk of them ending up elsewhere. That is exactly what happened.

As far as your list, it means next to nothing within the context of CU football. Most of those teams can easily replace players they lose through attrition without many problems. We have a much harder time when we lose players.
 
Every team have attrition problems, even Iowa fans on that board weren't happy with the attrition numbers. Our attrition numbers is actually not that bad considering every team have academic risks, injury retirements, grey shirts deciding not to enroll and etc. Have a fair and balance and honest debate.
 
bigbang2 said:
Every team have attrition problems, even Iowa fans on that board weren't happy with the attrition numbers. Our attrition numbers is actually not that bad considering every team have academic risks, injury retirements, grey shirts deciding not to enroll and etc. Have a fair and balance and honest debate.
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But half the fun is bitching and moaning and don't forget the sky is always falling.
 
bigbang2 said:
This is why you are a fool. Compare the Attrition numbers to other schools. JE record and Hawkins attrition numbers is actually better than the national average.


This info is from Aug 2009 so more attrition surely occurred since:

Team Total signees Not with team Percentage
AUBURN.... 84.................35................41.6
MSU......... 84................ 35.............. 41.6
Ole Miss.... 83.................30.............. 36.1
Arkansas... 79.................28.............. 35.4
UK .............79.................27................ 34.1
LSU............78................ 26.................33.3
USC............78.................26.............. ..33.3
Tennessee...72................ 24................33.3
Alabama..... 80.................23................28.75
Georgia.......75.................17............... ..22.6
Florida...... 76.................16.................21
Vanderbilt....60................10................ .16.6

http://www.hawkeyenation.com/forum/...e-football-attrition-rates-other-schools.html
Click to expand...

Yes other schools have attrition as well. If you will bother to dig a little deeper a number of those schools on your list also have fired coaches as a result of less than desired results on the field.

The others on the list that have done better on the field also have much better players remainding from those classes. Not only did Embree sign a bunch of guys who aren't here, he also signed a bunch of guys who we really wish he hadn't.
 
bigbang2 said:
Can't add Jagne and Williams to the Attrition numbers. They didn't take a snap with the team. Guys like Harrington, Harlos, Washington have health problems. It is insensitive to blame Embo for guys getting hurt. And attrition is part of College football. I expect the same thing to happen to Coach Mac.
Click to expand...
You expect 50% attrition? No way is that acceptable. This has been a significant part of our problem for years and it has to do with recruiting style.
 
MtnBuff said:
Yes other schools have attrition as well. If you will bother to dig a little deeper a number of those schools on your list also have fired coaches as a result of less than desired results on the field.

The others on the list that have done better on the field also have much better players remainding from those classes. Not only did Embree sign a bunch of guys who aren't here, he also signed a bunch of guys who we really wish he hadn't.
Click to expand...

Embo also signed a lot of good young players. I am actually happy with his recruiting considering how low the program was when he was hired.
 
bigbang2 said:
Embo also signed a lot of good young players. I am actually happy with his recruiting considering how low the program was when he was hired.
Click to expand...

So you're happy with 66.7% of the classes he signed being at the bottom or near of the PAC 12?
 
CU doesn't exactly have a winning culture the last 10 years that will attract the blue chippers. it will take some time to build the school back up to the way it was in the 90's and early 00's. I am not surprised that the recruiting classes have ranked at the bottom of PAC 12. I will not be shocked if Coach Mac first full class will also rank towards the bottom of the Pac 12. Coach Mac has got to develop the 2 star and 3 star guys and build up some street cred before anyone can expect to sign 4 or 5 star recruits. Greg Henderson a 2 star recruit looks good for the Buff. The buffs needs more players like Greg Henderson. Embo did well considering the factors that worked against him. We have some good young players, can't wait to see the 2012 class become Senior starters. Embo signed good young players like Powell, Nembot, Henderson, and Crawley.
 
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I'm glad you're happy with ****** recruiting

And for every Greg Henderson there are 100's of 2*'s like him who don't make any difference
 
The problem with the program is not recruiting, it is coaching. Hopefully Coach Mac can get it right.
 
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